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Author Topic: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page  (Read 80131 times)

roadfro

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #125 on: March 18, 2012, 07:06:38 PM »

Speaking of Clearview experiments, upthread Roadfro mentioned some Clearview signage on a length of US 395 in Reno which had recently been reconstructed.  This, I have subsequently determined, was done under Nevada DOT Contract 3401, whose engineer seals have dates mostly in July 2009.  To the best of my knowledge, all Nevada DOT contracts done before and since have called for the FHWA alphabet series, and recent Nevada DOT work has called for conventional-road guide signs with mixed-case lettering in the FHWA series, as is now called for in the 2009 MUTCD.

Well, I appear to have mentioned this in another thread, but it's true. About a 4-mile stretch of US 395 (I-580) northbound in Reno was widened. All signs in this stretch, and one southbound sign structure just past I-80, were replaced due to new/moved sign structures. All new signs are Clearview, except I-80 shields (and possibly other numbers on the signs--not sure). However, there is one sign for the airport which appears to mix FHWA and Clearview legend quite randomly...  The new overhead signs also appear to be using better sign sheeting, as none of these new signs are illuminated.

Any other new conventional guide signs I've seen from NDOT now have mixed lettering but retain FHWA fonts. There is a new sign on I-80 West near Virginia St in Reno for the UNR attractions which has a compressed font that I haven't gotten a good enough look at to tell whether it's Clearview or FHWA. Most signs on I-80 in Reno are scheduled to be replaced under the current design-build project which should wrap later this year--unfortunately, this means the last remaining dark-green porcelain signs on I-80 in Reno will be disappearing--hopefully not to be replaced by Clearview.
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #126 on: March 19, 2012, 05:23:00 PM »

Not sure if this is a fluke install or not, but the auxiliary guide sign for Five Flags Speedway and the Naval Aviation Museum of Exit 7 along Interstate 10 westbound was replaced with a Clearview-fonted panel. This is the first non-OOCEA install with Clearview in Florida I have observed.

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #127 on: April 15, 2012, 10:26:25 PM »

One of my Flickr contacts has a photo of this sign in Shrewsbury, MA. So I guess MassDOT is using Clearview now?  :-(
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #128 on: April 16, 2012, 02:16:22 PM »

One of my Flickr contacts has a photo of this sign in Shrewsbury, MA. So I guess MassDOT is using Clearview now?  :-(

Ay caramba.  Thought Mass might not hop on the Clearview bandwagon.  Maybe it was contractor error/discretion.  Oddballs have shown up in Mass before, like the Connecticut-style button copy at 291 on the Mass Pike (though that was Mass Pike signage, not MassHighway), one-off button copy like on MA 2 at one interchange, etc, so maybe this too is an oddball and not part of a trend.
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2012, 11:03:51 AM »

One of my Flickr contacts has a photo of this sign in Shrewsbury, MA. So I guess MassDOT is using Clearview now?  :-(
Most of the new signs I've seen erected in MA are NOT Clearview.  Ay caramba.  Thought Mass might not hop on the Clearview bandwagon.  Maybe it was contractor error/discretion.  Oddballs have shown up in Mass before, like the Connecticut-style button copy at 291 on the Mass Pike (though that was Mass Pike signage, not MassHighway), one-off button copy like on MA 2 at one interchange, etc, so maybe this too is an oddball and not part of a trend.
It may be indeed a "One-Off"... kind of like one sign structure along I-84 Westbound in Waterbury, CT containing Exit 22 & 21 signs in Clearview font.

I've seen a grand total of ONE Clearview sign so far in Connecticut. It's near Exit 22 on I-84 West in Waterbury, in front of the Brass Mill Center Mall.
Make that TWO signs on one sign structure; see above-description.

Most of the newer signs I've seen erected along I-84 (I was just there last week) don't have any Clearview at all.
 
May 27, 2013 UPDATE: The above-mentioned Clearview BGS' along westbound 84 have since been replaced.  New BGS' featuring FHWA Gothic with larger Exit tabs now adorn the gantry.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 05:44:05 PM by PHLBOS »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #130 on: April 24, 2012, 08:17:59 PM »

Back in 2008, as part of a sign maintenance project, 44 guide signs were replaced along the Madison beltline between US 51 (Stoughton Rd) and Park Street (US 14).  As part of this replacement, WisDOT decided to test out the Clearview font on these signs (in addition to the super-high intensity sheeting).

However, its looks as though WisDOT could still be evaluating Clearview, when they redid the Park St and Rimrock Rd interchanges in 2010 they replaced all the '08 signage (for those intersections).  But the signage they replaced it with is still Clearview:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247343_10150204103467948_181045197947_6996194_98239_n.jpg

Just to note, the City of Eau Claire, WI uses Clearview for there street signs/ blades.
Quote
Some cities such as Eau Claire, Wis., have already been gradually replacing signs as they wear out. Brian Amundson, the city's public works director, says replacing signs is "a good, worthwhile program. It really does make a difference." - USAToday
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-10-21-road-signs-all-caps-lowercase_N.htm
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 08:27:45 PM by on_wisconsin »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #131 on: April 24, 2012, 11:54:48 PM »

However, its looks as though WisDOT could still be evaluating Clearview, when they redid the Park St and Rimrock Rd interchanges in 2010 they replaced all the '08 signage (for those intersections).  But the signage they replaced it with is still Clearview:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247343_10150204103467948_181045197947_6996194_98239_n.jpg

No, the evaluation is over.  That is what I was told directly by the State Signing Engineer.  They recently released some new standard sign plates (within the past couple months), and they all were designed with the FHWA Gothic series.  As for the Park St & Rimrock Rd signs, I would find it strange if they replaced signs only 2 years old.  Ground-mounted regulatory/warning signs maybe, but BGS aren't exactly cheap.  Even if they did replace them, they probably recycled the sign plate designs from the aforementioned replacement project.

Just to note, the City of Eau Claire, WI uses Clearview for there street signs/ blades.
Quote
Some cities such as Eau Claire, Wis., have already been gradually replacing signs as they wear out. Brian Amundson, the city's public works director, says replacing signs is "a good, worthwhile program. It really does make a difference." - USAToday
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-10-21-road-signs-all-caps-lowercase_N.htm

Your article makes no mention of Eau Claire using Clearview or the Clearview font whatsoever.  The article is purely about retroreflectivity changing from all caps to title case.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 12:06:11 AM by DaBigE »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #132 on: April 25, 2012, 08:28:22 PM »

No, the evaluation is over.  That is what I was told directly by the State Signing Engineer.  They recently released some new standard sign plates (within the past couple months), and they all were designed with the FHWA Gothic series.  As for the Park St & Rimrock Rd signs, I would find it strange if they replaced signs only 2 years old.  Ground-mounted regulatory/warning signs maybe, but BGS aren't exactly cheap.  Even if they did replace them, they probably recycled the sign plate designs from the aforementioned replacement project.
Yeah I was wrong the old Park St signs replaced in 2010 where FHWA font: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3646/3449706787_61a45c7b22_b.jpg and the Rimrock Rd was ground mounted Clearview: http://www.citydictionary.com/Uploaded/Images/Beltline-The-20080726082023.jpg
(I guess I didn't get really into to roads/ sign fonts before '10) 

Your article makes no mention of Eau Claire using Clearview or the Clearview font whatsoever.  The article is purely about retroreflectivity changing from all caps to title case.
The city does use Clearview for there street blades from what I saw the last time I was up there visiting family (November).
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 08:44:15 PM by on_wisconsin »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #133 on: April 25, 2012, 10:11:55 PM »

Yeah I was wrong the old Park St signs replaced in 2010 where FHWA font: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3646/3449706787_61a45c7b22_b.jpg and the Rimrock Rd was ground mounted Clearview: http://www.citydictionary.com/Uploaded/Images/Beltline-The-20080726082023.jpg
(I guess I didn't get really into to roads/ sign fonts before '10)

Rimrock (taken just after the sign replacement project...not some of my better photography :no:):



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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #134 on: July 30, 2012, 03:18:14 PM »

I noticed that British Columbia is not on the list. The province uses Clearview very extensively on their signage.
EXAMPLE:

I've seen Clearview in Oregon. It's on Portland street blades and some signs. (Rather blurry picture, unfortunately)

In Washington, the City of Bremerton uses Clearview on their illuminated street name signs.
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #135 on: May 15, 2013, 04:14:37 PM »

Seen some clearview signs on I-476 2 weeks ago and  PA turnpike do use the smaller clearview sizes when putting them on over passes or an Interchange ex Quakertown, Allentown SP US-222
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roadman

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #136 on: May 15, 2013, 05:33:58 PM »

One of my Flickr contacts has a photo of this sign in Shrewsbury, MA. So I guess MassDOT is using Clearview now?  :-(

I can assure everyone reading that this was a contractor error, and is not a test or a new MassDOT standard.  Besides the use of Clearview font, the destinations are fully spelled out ('borough').  Had they used standard MassDOT abbreviations ('boro'), the panel could have been mounted on two posts instead of three.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 07:00:30 PM by roadman »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #137 on: May 15, 2013, 05:45:31 PM »

that double-border MA-9 shield seems to be out of spec as well.
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roadman

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #138 on: May 15, 2013, 06:06:05 PM »

that double-border MA-9 shield seems to be out of spec as well.

Use of inset borders for MA route shields mounted on BGS panels has been MassHighway/MassDOT standard since the mid-1990s.  For emphasis, this requirement has been provided in the MassDOT MUTCD amendments as well:

Section 2E.27 Route Signs and Trailblazer Assemblies
Massachusetts M1-5 route shields shall always include a border and inset, whether mounted independently or on guide signs.

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/highway/DoingBusinessWithUs/ManualsPublicationsForms.aspx
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:59:06 PM by roadman »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #139 on: August 21, 2015, 05:09:06 PM »

My apologies for reviving a very old thread. But I feel like the 'Highway Gothic or Clearview' list on the main website is now quite out-dated.

Ontario no longer uses Clearview, even though the list says it does. Member AsphaltPlanet photographed a Clearview sign replaced with series EM this spring. First image 2010, second 2015. The only use in Ontario is in Toronto, Sault Ste Marie. The province itself dumped it now.

A series of sign replacements have been undertaken during the winter this year in the GTA.  Here are some before and after photos of the work:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_Oct10_TB_24x16.jpg


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/QEW_images/QEW_dv_99-5_TB_Apr15_24x16.jpg

I believe Iowa is in the same boat as Ontario. Apparently they don't use Clearview either. Don't have a picture.

And, member Pink Jazz stated that Arizona may also have dumped Clearview. No confirmation though.

Finally, BC, SK, MB, NF should be listed as using Clearview. Confirmation can be found easily on Streetview.

The page if no one has the link: http://www.aaroads.com/fonts.php
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 05:12:19 PM by SignGeek101 »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #140 on: August 21, 2015, 08:55:17 PM »

I believe Iowa is in the same boat as Ontario. Apparently they don't use Clearview either. Don't have a picture.

If I understand correctly, Ontario only experimented with Clearview, and never embarked on full-throttle adoption of it.  Iowa differs from this to the extent that Clearview was the actual standard for a number of years.  (I continue to monitor Iowa DOT lettings and the EDMS and although there have been one or two signing contracts with Clearview, probably because the plans had been sitting on the shelf for a while, nearly all new signing is in the FHWA alphabet series.)

And, member Pink Jazz stated that Arizona may also have dumped Clearview. No confirmation though.

Pink Jazz has cited field installations, which could very well be contractor errors (cf. Roadman's post upthread).  I am seeing very little evidence of Clearview being dumped in recent Arizona DOT signing plans.  These include corrected as-builts (redline date of February 27, 2015) for the I-10 Craycroft-to-I-19 job (TRACS H855601C) as well as the SR 210 job (TRACS H855401C), all of which use Clearview.

The one plans set I have seen that tends to suggest Clearview is being dumped is a SR 264 Burnside-Fish Wash job (TRACS H824601C) for which early-stage draft plans have been prepared as of last month.  I'm hesitant to draw inferences from it since the signing plans are pretty rough, with distance expressions in mixed case (e.g. "4 Miles" instead of "4 MILES").
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #141 on: August 21, 2015, 09:19:04 PM »

I believe Iowa is in the same boat as Ontario. Apparently they don't use Clearview either. Don't have a picture.

If I understand correctly, Ontario only experimented with Clearview, and never embarked on full-throttle adoption of it.  Iowa differs from this to the extent that Clearview was the actual standard for a number of years.  (I continue to monitor Iowa DOT lettings and the EDMS and although there have been one or two signing contracts with Clearview, probably because the plans had been sitting on the shelf for a while, nearly all new signing is in the FHWA alphabet series.)

Yes, that is correct. Ontario experimented with it, but never adopted it. I should have elaborated more on that above.

And, member Pink Jazz stated that Arizona may also have dumped Clearview. No confirmation though.

Pink Jazz has cited field installations, which could very well be contractor errors (cf. Roadman's post upthread).  I am seeing very little evidence of Clearview being dumped in recent Arizona DOT signing plans.  These include corrected as-builts (redline date of February 27, 2015) for the I-10 Craycroft-to-I-19 job (TRACS H855601C) as well as the SR 210 job (TRACS H855401C), all of which use Clearview.

The one plans set I have seen that tends to suggest Clearview is being dumped is a SR 264 Burnside-Fish Wash job (TRACS H824601C) for which early-stage draft plans have been prepared as of last month.  I'm hesitant to draw inferences from it since the signing plans are pretty rough, with distance expressions in mixed case (e.g. "4 Miles" instead of "4 MILES").

Ok. I also thought it was a little early to say whether or not Arizona changed back or not. Thanks for including this, I did not know.

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #142 on: August 21, 2015, 11:39:58 PM »

It also notes that Somerset and Union counties in New Jersey use it. I have seen a very heavy reduction in Clearview in Somerset, to the point where I'm thinking they dropped it because they are the new larger style street signs but they use the FHWA typeface instead.
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #143 on: August 24, 2015, 06:45:12 PM »

I've created this map, based on the both the data off the page, and updates since.





EDIT: Fixed arrow.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 06:59:41 PM by SignGeek101 »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #144 on: August 24, 2015, 06:49:19 PM »

Uh... why is your DC pointing at New York City? It should be pointing at the very small gap between Maryland and Virginia if it's supposed to represent Washington, DC.
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #145 on: August 24, 2015, 06:53:53 PM »

Uh... why is your DC pointing at New York City? It should be pointing at the very small gap between Maryland and Virginia if it's supposed to represent Washington, DC.

I didn't necessarily point DC at New York for its location. I just wanted to point out that DC uses FHWA, hence the (BGS) green colour. I should have elaborated further. The arrow is pretty unnecessary.

EDIT: I removed the arrow. Thanks for pointing that out.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 07:00:02 PM by SignGeek101 »
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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #146 on: August 24, 2015, 11:40:18 PM »

I'll try to get the page updated to reflect all of the recent posts. Thanks for that!
Love the status maps too, mind if we add those to the page?

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #147 on: August 25, 2015, 12:16:31 AM »

I'll try to get the page updated to reflect all of the recent posts. Thanks for that!
Love the status maps too, mind if we add those to the page?

The original maps were just off the internet and have stuff about copyright and distribution. So, I remade them using Wikimedia Commons free use licence.





I would love for these to be on the page. Thanks!  :cheers:

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #148 on: August 25, 2015, 08:41:37 AM »


The original maps were just off the internet and have stuff about copyright and distribution. So, I remade them using Wikimedia Commons free use licence.

<snip>
I would love for these to be on the page. Thanks!  :cheers:

Thanks! I have updated the page to reflect the recent observations cited above and added your maps. I also amended the page to reference the 2014 letter of the FHWA rescinding the Interim Approval for Clearview.

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Re: AARoads: Gothic vs. Clearview Page
« Reply #149 on: August 25, 2015, 10:06:19 AM »

I believe Iowa is in the same boat as Ontario. Apparently they don't use Clearview either. Don't have a picture.

If I understand correctly, Ontario only experimented with Clearview, and never embarked on full-throttle adoption of it.  Iowa differs from this to the extent that Clearview was the actual standard for a number of years.  (I continue to monitor Iowa DOT lettings and the EDMS and although there have been one or two signing contracts with Clearview, probably because the plans had been sitting on the shelf for a while, nearly all new signing is in the FHWA alphabet series.)

I can verify that IowaDOT did indeed use Clearview in the field.  A number of signs along I-80 actually have Clearview, including the numerals.



Just the exit tabs on this one:


« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 10:09:10 AM by Brandon »
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