Speeding

[jeffandnicole]

Just had this one happen to me yesterday.

I passed a few vehicles in the left lane, going about 10 over the limit (75 in a 65).  On the other side of the highway, a trooper passed by me; in my mirror, I saw him turn around across the median.  I got back in the right lane, slowed down to 65, and so did everyone behind me (they had been going about 72 or 73).  The trooper pulled over a commercial vehicle, and the rest of us just kept going.

Should I feel good (that I got off), or should I feel bad (for the other guy, who probably wasn't even going as fast as the cop's radar said, because that was my car's speed)?  I kind of feel both.

The false assumption is that you (and many others) believe that cops are only worried about one thing - speed. 

There could be several reasons why the trooper went after that truck.  The trooper could've been on a truck compliance team and happened to randomly go after that truck.  Or that truck was specifically picked for another reason.  Maybe another cop saw that truck did something wrong or had a clear issue and radioed for another officer to stop the truck.  Maybe the truck left the scene of something and was wanted.  Maybe the officer noticed the required numbering on the truck was missing.  Maybe a headlight was out.

Whatever the reason, I'm going to guess it wasn't because you were doing 10 over (and why do people slow down anyway? The cop already saw you...you just made it easier on him to catch up to you, and in a way you are admitting you knew you were speeding by slowing down in the first place!).

[elsmere241]

My most embarrassing ticket has to be the time I went 61 in a 35, through the entire town of Mount Pleasant, Utah in about two minutes.  The chief of police said, "Son, you sure know how to weave."

[realjd]

Might not have even been speeding.  In NY at least, they can electronically read registration/inspection from the stickers.  Also, sometimes troopers hold different vehicle classes to different standards.

I would be extremely surprised if NY police can scan registration stickers while on the move. More likely they're using the automated license plate readers like everywhere else in the country, scanning the plates and not the stickers.

[agentsteel53]

The closest track to me is Virginia International Raceway near Danville, about 2 hours away. In order to take the car onto the track at speed, I'd have to spend hundreds of dollars to go through a training class (which is something I wouldn't mind doing, honestly), then either joining their driver's club ($2500 initial fee + $175 a month) or latching onto another driving club and going onto the track on their specified track day. There's also an option to take the car onto the track behind a pace car at highway speeds with no passing, but that seems a bit asinine to me. There are plenty of roads within a 20 mile radius that I can drive like that.

dang!  there isn't some random small-town Al's Racetrack, Bait, and Tackle? 

the training course doesn't sound bad at all - the driver's club seems like a terrible use of money, though, at your level of interest.  do all the club members drive Bugattis or something, so they can consider the driver's club fee a drop in the bucket?

[agentsteel53]

That truck went ridiculously slow up the hill, and then very fast going down when I passed.

what an asshole.

I once had a truck chase me down the I-40 hill westbound out of Flagstaff.  he tailgated me, refusing to pass, up to about 106mph, until I last-second took an exit and damn near burned my brakes out coming to a stop.

[Brandon]

That truck went ridiculously slow up the hill, and then very fast going down when I passed.

what an asshole.

I once had a truck chase me down the I-40 hill westbound out of Flagstaff.  he tailgated me, refusing to pass, up to about 106mph, until I last-second took an exit and damn near burned my brakes out coming to a stop.

Sounds like a movie I saw once.

[Takumi]

dang!  there isn't some random small-town Al's Racetrack, Bait, and Tackle?

Nothing over half a mile.

the training course doesn't sound bad at all - the driver's club seems like a terrible use of money, though, at your level of interest.  do all the club members drive Bugattis or something, so they can consider the driver's club fee a drop in the bucket?

Pretty much. Their website shows a high-end exotic on the front page, so it's definitely catered towards that crowd. The only Hondas that fit that would be the NSX or maybe the equally rare S2000 CR. The highest-end cars I would ever have any interest of owning are the Nissan GT-R or the BMW M5, both of which can now be bought for far below their original prices.

[kphoger]

There could be several reasons why the trooper went after that truck.  The trooper could've been on a truck compliance team and happened to randomly go after that truck.

It's been my experience that, for a cop to actually fling his cruiser across a median (GSV of the area here), it's because he's clocked someone speeding.  It could have been something else, of course, but knowledge of the area leads me to believe otherwise (nearby highways with more trucks, fairly low tolerance for speeding, &c).

Or that truck was specifically picked for another reason.  Maybe another cop saw that truck did something wrong or had a clear issue and radioed for another officer to stop the truck.  Maybe the truck left the scene of something and was wanted.  Maybe the officer noticed the required numbering on the truck was missing.  Maybe a headlight was out.

Fairly remote possiblity.  It was some sort of utility truck, and was coming in from a fairly remote stretch of highway (coming in on US-400 from at least Leon).  I usually notice burnt headlights while driving, and didn't notice anything like that.  So possible, yes; likely, no.  To compare, I once drove a commercial vehicle with half its license plate broken off, and wasn't even warned about it for a whole year–and that was only because I'd already been pulled over on a Scott's Law violation–whereas I once had a trooper whip across a median because he'd clocked me (in a passenger car) at 6 mph over the limit.

Whatever the reason, I'm going to guess it wasn't because you were doing 10 over (and why do people slow down anyway? The cop already saw you...you just made it easier on him to catch up to you, and in a way you are admitting you knew you were speeding by slowing down in the first place!).

I might be mistaken about the accuracy of radar guns, but I don't believe he would have had the precision to see me doing 75 mph, but rather that the fastest moving vehicle in the pack of four was doing 75 mph.  The reason cars slow down in that situation is so he can't tell who the fastest vehicle in the pack had been.  In that situation, since the pack is still tightly bunched (but now going 63—65 instead of 73—75 mph), a trooper will often just pick off the last driver in the line of vehicles.  Seems to be precisely what happened, probably supported by keeping commercial drivers to higher standards.

[agentsteel53]

Scott's Law violation

what is Scott's law?

(apart from "Oklahoma DOT sucks")

[kphoger]

Ah.  Apparently it's an Illinois term.  It's the "Move Over Law".

[Scott5114]

Scott's Law violation

what is Scott's law?

(apart from "Oklahoma DOT sucks")

It is a law that I would love to see broken someday.

[ET21]

City driving in Illinois, I do 70 on all highways and 5 above on all local roads unless it get too hazardous (weather, construction, etc)

Farm driving, 75 on the highway, 5 over on local roads.

Max speed I've ever done, 95 in a 65 zone

[vdeane]

My max speed varies based on where I am.  In NY I do 5 over more or less religiously.  In Ontario and Quebec, I generally drive the speed I would for a similar road in NY; I figure the lower speed limits and laxer enforcement cancel each other out.  In NJ I keep up with traffic; the fastest I've gotten is a short burst of 85 on the Turnpike.

[Alps]

I'll never know how fast it'll take the car

it's an exact multiple of your RPMs.  note a reference pair of "speed, RPM"; later note the tach at the highest speed; do the math when you get home.

False! Cars top out below their redline at the point when the wind drag from the speed equals the remaining motive power of the engine. For a 7,000 rpm car this can be anywhere from 5,500 to 6,500 rpm (typical range) depending on aerodynamics.

[formulanone]

False! Cars top out below their redline at the point when the wind drag from the speed equals the remaining motive power of the engine. For a 7,000 rpm car this can be anywhere from 5,500 to 6,500 rpm (typical range) depending on aerodynamics.

...or whatever "governor" the auto manufacturer set for the vehicle. Many German sports sedans were limited to a top speed of 155 mph (250 km/h), and usually pickup trucks are limited to some vague number (110 or so?) to prevent lift-off.

Popular examples from the past were the Buick Grand National and GNX, which were each limited to 124 mph; despite their impressive acceleration numbers, the engineers and/or legal department weren't too confident of the limitations regarding the aging G-body.

[agentsteel53]

I'll never know how fast it'll take the car

it's an exact multiple of your RPMs.  note a reference pair of "speed, RPM"; later note the tach at the highest speed; do the math when you get home.

False! Cars top out below their redline at the point when the wind drag from the speed equals the remaining motive power of the engine. For a 7,000 rpm car this can be anywhere from 5,500 to 6,500 rpm (typical range) depending on aerodynamics.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote.  I said that, at whatever speed you have topped out at (regardless of redline), if your speedometer needle is buried, measure your RPMs and multiply by a previously determined proportionality constant.

[agentsteel53]

...or whatever "governor" the auto manufacturer set for the vehicle. Many German sports sedans were limited to a top speed of 155 mph (250 km/h), and usually pickup trucks are limited to some vague number (110 or so?) to prevent lift-off.

my 2001 Ford Taurus threw itself into neutral when I hit 117 coming down a hill.  only time I'd ever gotten it over 114.

speaking of driving 110+, the cruise control can be set to 113, but not to 114.

[kphoger]

...or whatever "governor" the auto manufacturer set for the vehicle. Many German sports sedans were limited to a top speed of 155 mph (250 km/h), and usually pickup trucks are limited to some vague number (110 or so?) to prevent lift-off.

my 2001 Ford Taurus threw itself into neutral when I hit 117 coming down a hill.  only time I'd ever gotten it over 114.

speaking of driving 110+, the cruise control can be set to 113, but not to 114.

Back when I was young and reckless, I liked taking my dad's 1997 Camry 5-speed at very fast speeds.  Back then, I didn't even know what a governor was.  So there I was, driving on K-25 at night, when *THUNK* it threw itself into neutral at 113 mph.  I've never been so scared in my life!  Then I realized what had happened.

[roadman]

Fastest I've done personally is about 90 in a 1984 Honda Civic hatchback on a dead straight section of Interstate 80 somewhere in Wyoming - IIRC, this was just after NMSL was repealed and the road had just been re-posted at 65.

Fastest I've been passed was by an individual in a older Lincoln Town Car just after the I-384/I-84 split east of Scranton who was doing about 95.  This was during a steady rain, and about 30 miles later, I went by Mr. Hot Rod Lincoln.  He had spun out in the median, was out of the car, and two Pennsylvania State Police troopers were just arriving on scene.

[Duke87]

...or whatever "governor" the auto manufacturer set for the vehicle. Many German sports sedans were limited to a top speed of 155 mph (250 km/h), and usually pickup trucks are limited to some vague number (110 or so?) to prevent lift-off.

This then begs the question: on a scale of "any idiot can do that in their garage" to "even the best mechanics couldn't do it", how easy is it to remove or deactivate the governor on a car if it has one?

If it is a question of how the computer controlling an automatic transmission is programmed, then it cannot be done without access to the code, which due to the proprietary nature of such things means no one who doesn't have inside access can do it.

[wxfree]

...or whatever "governor" the auto manufacturer set for the vehicle. Many German sports sedans were limited to a top speed of 155 mph (250 km/h), and usually pickup trucks are limited to some vague number (110 or so?) to prevent lift-off.

This then begs the question: on a scale of "any idiot can do that in their garage" to "even the best mechanics couldn't do it", how easy is it to remove or deactivate the governor on a car if it has one?

If it is a question of how the computer controlling an automatic transmission is programmed, then it cannot be done without access to the code, which due to the proprietary nature of such things means no one who doesn't have inside access can do it.

If I wanted to defeat a speed limiter, I'd start by unplugging the vehicle speed sensor.  The speedometer wouldn't work, so you'd want to use a GPS to see how fast you got to.  I suspect that would work, but the computer might still look at transmission gear and engine RPM to keep from being outsmarted.  Unplugging the sensor that reads engine speed would likely disable the engine.  If you were still limited after unplugging the VSS, maybe unplugging the sensor on the transmission would work.

Unplugging sensors will set a trouble code and may cause de-rating and result in lower top speed.

[formulanone]

This then begs the question: on a scale of "any idiot can do that in their garage" to "even the best mechanics couldn't do it", how easy is it to remove or deactivate the governor on a car if it has one?

Some performance vehicles have a healthy aftermarket, which usually delve into the ECU (engine control unit)  to see what's hidden, and to save a lot of headaches later on. Of course, there's no guarantee it's been discovered for the average family sedan or typical econobox, if there was limited interest in performance upgrades for said vehicle.

Usually, the top-speed governor is the first thing to be investigated...probably because that's one of the first benchmarks to be broken by a performance tuning shop, but also to figure out how fuel cut-off is handled. So if it's a model that's been thoroughly analysed in that fashion, I've heard that removing the artificial limitation would be fairly easy, if you knew what you were doing with the right scan-tools and right equipment. Some dealerships even offer this for a few grand or so, although prices and participation may vary, warranty-busting procedures, yada yada yada.

I wouldn't be shocked if there was some sort of [insert everyday-car model] that offered a simple way to defeat this, but that's also why every car or truck, make or model has it's own internet forum...

[roadman]

...or whatever "governor" the auto manufacturer set for the vehicle. Many German sports sedans were limited to a top speed of 155 mph (250 km/h), and usually pickup trucks are limited to some vague number (110 or so?) to prevent lift-off.

This then begs the question: on a scale of "any idiot can do that in their garage" to "even the best mechanics couldn't do it", how easy is it to remove or deactivate the governor on a car if it has one?

If it is a question of how the computer controlling an automatic transmission is programmed, then it cannot be done without access to the code, which due to the proprietary nature of such things means no one who doesn't have inside access can do it.

If I wanted to defeat a speed limiter, I'd start by unplugging the vehicle speed sensor.  The speedometer wouldn't work, so you'd want to use a GPS to see how fast you got to.  I suspect that would work, but the computer might still look at transmission gear and engine RPM to keep from being outsmarted.  Unplugging the sensor that reads engine speed would likely disable the engine.  If you were still limited after unplugging the VSS, maybe unplugging the sensor on the transmission would work.

Unplugging sensors will set a trouble code and may cause de-rating and result in lower top speed.

One night as I was driving up Interstate 93 to my brother's in Andover (MA), the speedometer on my 1988 Prelude failed (I was doing about 65 just before the failure).  The transmission (automatic) immediately dropped to second gear and the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree.  A couple of days later, I took the car into my local mechanic.  He removed the speedo and tach, unsoldered all the connections, cleaned up the contacts and wires, resoldered everything, and reseated the gauges.  Never had the problem again, and it only cost me about 40 bucks.

[DSS5]

I hit 100 on U.S. 52 between Winston-Salem and Lexington. It was around 6 AM on a Saturday and the highway was as empty as could be. Speed limit was 65.

The most I've sped by would probably be going around 90 in a 50. This was going downhill on the newly-widened stretch of U.S. 321 in Caldwell County, NC.

[hotdogPi]

In Massachusetts (and probably everywhere else), almost everyone goes faster than the speed limit on exit ramps. If it says "30 MPH exit", people will be going 40. The exception is if there is traffic.