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Author Topic: Interstate 11  (Read 246938 times)

Kniwt

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1100 on: July 07, 2019, 11:37:27 PM »

US 93 has a relatively recent divided segment south of the AZ 71 junction; it's likely ADOT would prefer to utilize as much of that facility as possible as an upgradable I-11 alignment.

Indeed, it is already signed as such:


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sparker

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1101 on: July 08, 2019, 02:35:15 AM »

US 93 has a relatively recent divided segment south of the AZ 71 junction; it's likely ADOT would prefer to utilize as much of that facility as possible as an upgradable I-11 alignment.

Indeed, it is already signed as such:




As much as it's nice to see ADOT's public recognition of the I-11 concept, I wouldn't read too much into the placement of a "future" alignment sign; they're strewn along US 93 all the way into NV; that's become S.O.P. with pending Interstates that generally follow existing routes (I-49 South along US 90 in LA has plenty of these as well; the various Interstate corridors in NC also feature similar signage).   They're just there as a "stopgap" measure to let the driving public know that the states' DOT is (at some point) intending to upgrade the route to full Interstate status -- regardless of the timeframe of such activity -- in short, a CYA indicator.  In these days of uncertain funding, the "future I-xx corridor" signs are there as another sort of "reassurance" shield -- not for navigation but to make drivers aware that while the pace of improvement may be glacial, it's still going to occur sooner or later.   
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splashflash

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1102 on: July 11, 2019, 01:51:18 AM »

[/i
Quote
Looking at GE/GSV, US 93 has a relatively recent divided segment south of the AZ 71 junction; it's likely ADOT would prefer to utilize as much of that facility as possible as an upgradable I-11 alignment.  If a line is drawn due south from the southeastern end of that divided section, it intersects US 60 well west of the outer limits of development, which appear to be situated around the airfield west of town -- and it also doesn't encounter much in the way of problematic terrain along that line.


The Vulture Mountain Recreational Area is due south of the divided section of US 93 and Vista Royale.  That is why all three recommended alignments swing west completing arcs before running essentially due south.  The one route bisecting the VMRA, I believe option V, was rejected as it ran through environmentally sensitive areas.  The divided section ends at about MP 189.5 and begins at around MP 184.5.  Wickenburg Council agreed on June 17th to request the US 93 / I-11 interchange to be at MP 186 instead of 188 or 189.  They also requested the US 60 / I-11 interchange be moved from MP 103.5 to 102, again further west.  Vista Royale is actually closer to US 93 than US 60, but yes, residential density is higher near US 60 than US 93.

ADOT has insisted that the recommended alignments were needing wishes of the former council resolution; with a new council eager to have better relations with neighbouring Vista Royale, the new June 17th resolution will surely have weight.  If MP 186 were the termination point, only about 1 1/2 miles of freeway of US 93 would be made use of while 3 1/2 miles "lost".  The SR 71 / US 93  interchange is currently single lane so would need to be twinned.  Would not a five-way interchange at this location and I-11 heading due south from there be less costly than an additional interchange at MP 186, or 189?  I think option T looks very attractive.  See page 24 of 2017 ASR Corridor Alternatives report.




Map showing recommended versus Vista Royale requested route.  The US 60 interchange would be further west.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 02:24:14 AM by splashflash »
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1103 on: July 11, 2019, 06:04:06 PM »

^^^^^^^^^
Absent any information to the contrary, it's likely any I-11/AZ 71 interchange will be a simple diamond type (unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!); putting a complex "5-point" interchange right atop this would substantially increase project cost -- whereas doing the interchange as a separate entity and treating any I-11 divergence from US 93, regardless of exactly where it's located, as an individual project -- likely a simple single-SB-flyover directional-Y -- or if more movements are desired, a trumpet -- would be more cost-effective.  My previous mention of the fact that a straight line due south of the end of the US 93 divided stretch would in fact bypass the populated areas west of Wickenburg was simply as a point of reference; if the VMRA intervenes, it, of course, would have to be circumvented by whatever I-11 alignment is eventually selected.  There are still numerous options for ADOT to consider -- but it is unlikely that they would overcomplicate matters with a major system interchange.  Also, even if they don't utilize all of the recently completed 4-lane US 93 segment, they'll probably utilize as much as they can given their alignment options south of there. 
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1104 on: July 11, 2019, 06:16:14 PM »

(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1105 on: July 11, 2019, 09:23:46 PM »

(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z

Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1106 on: July 11, 2019, 09:27:50 PM »

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Sonic99

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1107 on: July 11, 2019, 10:01:00 PM »

(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z

Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(

The standard diverging diamond (like going along the 202 and also I-17/Happy Valley doesn't seem all that bad, but this seems like an...interesting...interpretation of the DDI.
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1108 on: July 11, 2019, 10:10:58 PM »

(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z

Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(

The standard diverging diamond (like going along the 202 and also I-17/Happy Valley doesn't seem all that bad, but this seems like an...interesting...interpretation of the DDI.
If you look on Street View on the I-15 overpasses, you can see the completed configuration. It's... strange.
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roadfro

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1109 on: July 12, 2019, 01:11:10 AM »

(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z

Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(

The standard diverging diamond (like going along the 202 and also I-17/Happy Valley doesn't seem all that bad, but this seems like an...interesting...interpretation of the DDI.
If you look on Street View on the I-15 overpasses, you can see the completed configuration. It's... strange.

Lotta hate for that project, I see... I haven't been through it yet, but It's actually a pretty decent design given the flow patterns.
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1110 on: July 12, 2019, 01:39:12 AM »

(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z

Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(

The standard diverging diamond (like going along the 202 and also I-17/Happy Valley doesn't seem all that bad, but this seems like an...interesting...interpretation of the DDI.
If you look on Street View on the I-15 overpasses, you can see the completed configuration. It's... strange.

Lotta hate for that project, I see... I haven't been through it yet, but It's actually a pretty decent design given the flow patterns.
Fair enough, but wouldn’t a three-way free-flowing trumpet have worked?
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roadfro

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1111 on: July 12, 2019, 02:22:10 AM »



(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z

Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(

The standard diverging diamond (like going along the 202 and also I-17/Happy Valley doesn't seem all that bad, but this seems like an...interesting...interpretation of the DDI.
If you look on Street View on the I-15 overpasses, you can see the completed configuration. It's... strange.

Lotta hate for that project, I see... I haven't been through it yet, but It's actually a pretty decent design given the flow patterns.
Fair enough, but wouldn’t a three-way free-flowing trumpet have worked?

No, because there is a minor-looking road on the east side that actually serves the main entrance to the Las Vegas area's landfill, so it has to be a four quadrant interchange. The dominant movements (NB 15 to NB 93, and SB 93 to SB 15) are free-flow.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1112 on: July 12, 2019, 02:56:38 AM »



(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z

Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(

The standard diverging diamond (like going along the 202 and also I-17/Happy Valley doesn't seem all that bad, but this seems like an...interesting...interpretation of the DDI.
If you look on Street View on the I-15 overpasses, you can see the completed configuration. It's... strange.

Lotta hate for that project, I see... I haven't been through it yet, but It's actually a pretty decent design given the flow patterns.
Fair enough, but wouldn’t a three-way free-flowing trumpet have worked?

No, because there is a minor-looking road on the east side that actually serves the main entrance to the Las Vegas area's landfill, so it has to be a four quadrant interchange. The dominant movements (NB 15 to NB 93, and SB 93 to SB 15) are free-flow.

The schematic map shows the NB 15/93 to NB 93 connection crossing the SB 93 to NB 15 connection at grade.  Is this set up as an alternating signal like a standard DDI or does the minor (SB 93>NB 15 + local) connection simply encounter a stop sign, waiting for a break in the opposite-direction traffic?  That wouldn't seem to qualify as "free flow" per se, but rather as a standard at-grade crossing with a dominant direction. 

That being said -- we're sort of getting away from the main thread subject here; this might better belong in Traffic Control -- or at least shunted over to Southwest, where the interchange in question actually lies.   Side question:  is Tacos Colima any good -- worth braving this interchange over?   :sombrero:
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roadfro

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1113 on: July 12, 2019, 10:36:35 AM »

(unless ADOT gets roundabout fever like other DOT's we know!)
Or they'll pull an I-15 / US-93

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.3809521,-114.8939905,17z
Of course, you're referring to the Diverging Clusterfuck! X-(
The standard diverging diamond (like going along the 202 and also I-17/Happy Valley doesn't seem all that bad, but this seems like an...interesting...interpretation of the DDI.
If you look on Street View on the I-15 overpasses, you can see the completed configuration. It's... strange.
Lotta hate for that project, I see... I haven't been through it yet, but It's actually a pretty decent design given the flow patterns.
Fair enough, but wouldn’t a three-way free-flowing trumpet have worked?
No, because there is a minor-looking road on the east side that actually serves the main entrance to the Las Vegas area's landfill, so it has to be a four quadrant interchange. The dominant movements (NB 15 to NB 93, and SB 93 to SB 15) are free-flow.
The schematic map shows the NB 15/93 to NB 93 connection crossing the SB 93 to NB 15 connection at grade.  Is this set up as an alternating signal like a standard DDI or does the minor (SB 93>NB 15 + local) connection simply encounter a stop sign, waiting for a break in the opposite-direction traffic?  That wouldn't seem to qualify as "free flow" per se, but rather as a standard at-grade crossing with a dominant direction. 
No signal. SB 93>NB 15/local encounters a stop sign.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1114 on: July 12, 2019, 10:55:59 AM »

Why don't they just go ahead and sign I-515 and US 95 as I-11 and get it over with?  Is the US-95 freeway not interstate standards?  I have only driven it once so I don't know.  They could sign it north out of Las Vegas to the end of the freeway. 
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sprjus4

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1115 on: July 12, 2019, 11:20:07 AM »

Why don't they just go ahead and sign I-515 and US 95 as I-11 and get it over with?  Is the US-95 freeway not interstate standards?  I have only driven it once so I don't know.  They could sign it north out of Las Vegas to the end of the freeway.
IIRC, it’s because the don’t know if they want to use I-515 or build a new alignment.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1116 on: July 12, 2019, 11:43:39 AM »

Why don't they just go ahead and sign I-515 and US 95 as I-11 and get it over with?  Is the US-95 freeway not interstate standards?  I have only driven it once so I don't know.  They could sign it north out of Las Vegas to the end of the freeway.
IIRC, it’s because the don’t know if they want to use I-515 or build a new alignment.

Yeah, I don't know why they are kidding themselves.  We all know it's going on I-515.
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splashflash

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1117 on: July 12, 2019, 01:19:16 PM »

Why don't they just go ahead and sign I-515 and US 95 as I-11 and get it over with?  Is the US-95 freeway not interstate standards?  I have only driven it once so I don't know.  They could sign it north out of Las Vegas to the end of the freeway.
IIRC, it’s because the don’t know if they want to use I-515 or build a new alignment.
And up past SR-157 where the new Kyle Creek interchange was completed late last month.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 03:21:41 PM by splashflash »
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Sub-Urbanite

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1118 on: July 12, 2019, 01:27:02 PM »

Why don't they just go ahead and sign I-515 and US 95 as I-11 and get it over with?  Is the US-95 freeway not interstate standards?  I have only driven it once so I don't know.  They could sign it north out of Las Vegas to the end of the freeway.

As stated significantly upthread, NDOT's contracts for interchanges on US 95 already have the I-11 shields built in and covered by green squares. It's coming.
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mrsman

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1119 on: July 12, 2019, 02:18:52 PM »

Why don't they just go ahead and sign I-515 and US 95 as I-11 and get it over with?  Is the US-95 freeway not interstate standards?  I have only driven it once so I don't know.  They could sign it north out of Las Vegas to the end of the freeway.

As stated significantly upthread, NDOT's contracts for interchanges on US 95 already have the I-11 shields built in and covered by green squares. It's coming.

I am happy to see the I-515 designation go.  I never though it was necessary, since for its entire length it shared the roadway of US 95 and US 93.
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1120 on: July 14, 2019, 10:16:07 PM »

From the looks of this article, the town of Sahuarita now supports using the "Orange Route" for Future I-11. Basically, the alignment that would use existing highways south of Casa Grande.

https://www.gvnews.com/news/sahuarita-no-longer-supports-recommended-i--corridor/article_658a7d0e-a4c2-11e9-aac3-c73ff7006b38.html
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silverback1065

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1121 on: July 15, 2019, 07:03:24 PM »

why does this need to exist south of i-10?
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vdeane

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1122 on: July 15, 2019, 08:29:40 PM »

I could see down to I-8 along AZ 85 as a Phoenix bypass, but certainly not further south.  The proposed extensions to I-19 and Mexico are ridiculous.
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Zonie

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1123 on: July 15, 2019, 09:20:47 PM »

why does this need to exist south of i-10?

Options to add capacity on I-10 through Phoenix and Tucson are limited.  Driving through the construction zone yesterday, I don't see much ROW left on I-10 between Loop 101 and I-17 to handle another widening. You have the Gila River Community fighting any additional capacity between SR 347 and SR 387.

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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #1124 on: July 15, 2019, 10:35:09 PM »

I don't have any problem with them looping I-11 around the Western and Southern outskirts of Phoenix (but I still think US-60 needs to be Interstate quality from AZ-303 up to Wickenburg). I-11 ought to connect into I-10 or I-8 near Casa Grande and just end there. This business of extending I-11 down thru Tucson and to Nogales is overkill.

I-10 is getting a little squeezed in some parts of Tuscon, but it still looks like it's possible to add an additional lane in each direction, making it up to a 5-5 configuration.

The main problem with Tucson is no additional loop or spur freeways to work directly with I-10 and I-19. They need to improve AZ-210 as much as possible so it can be eventually turned into I-210. Then they need to build some other loop highways. Tucson is basically in the same position Phoenix was about 40 years ago: no loop highways. Pushing I-11 down there to try to accomplish that is going to cost way too much money. They need to simplify the approach.
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