Tolling I-80 Not Dead Yet

[Nexis4Jersey]

No they don't.

What?  hmmmmm, changes his mind on this subject , maybe they should create a Congestion Pricing system in Philly, to fund the Roads and Rails there , and place Electronic Tolls on 422 and and the US 202 Freeway to fund much needed Rail expansion ( yea i know , you guys hate that , but its becoming really bad down there).  Northeastern PA can be spared for  now , but Southeastern PA should get more Tolls.

[Scott5114]

Pennsylvania Wants I-80 Tolled So Bad, Rendell Will Personally Buy You a Pony If You Support Tolls

[Revive 755]

Pennsylvania Wants I-80 Tolled So Bad, Rendell Will Personally Buy You a Pony If You Support Tolls

Link doesn't work.

[Scott5114]

Pennsylvania Wants I-80 Tolled So Bad, Rendell Will Personally Buy You a Pony If You Support Tolls

Link doesn't work.

You actually believed Rendell was going to start buying people ponies?

[dave19]

Nope, I was hoping the link went to a ridiculous pic of Fast Eddie with a pony.
Actually, Rendell would probably steal someone else's pony and give it to you before he'd buy you one.

[mightyace]

If pro-toll TollRoadsNews thinks this...
Pennsylvania I-80 tollers increasingly desperate - thumbs down from Feds feared

The Philadelphia area rail transit agency SEPTA plus labor union bosses "are demanding" - says the [Philadelphi] Inquirer report - that the state's US senator Arlen Specter "push (US) transportation secretary Ray LaHood to approve the tolls."

Pasquale Deon chairman of the SEPTA transit agency and a Turnpike commissioner is quoted: "Arlen (Specter) needs to be pushing for it and not dancing around it. He's like a ballerina."

(You can't help noticing the demeaning language these guys use about their US Senator!)

SEPTA chairman AND Turnpike Commissioner - <sarcasm> gee no conflict of interest here </sarcasm>

The law states:

"Before the Secretary may permit a State to participate in the pilot program, the State must enter into an agreement  with the Secretary that provides that--
(A) all toll revenues received from operation of the toll facility will be used only for-- 
(i) debt service; 
(ii) reasonable return on investment of any private person financing the project; and 
(iii) any costs necessary for the improvement of and the proper operation and maintenance of the toll facility, including reconstruction, resurfacing, restoration, and rehabilitation of the toll facility..."

That's all.

The plan to use northern Pennsylvania's I-80 as a money machine for sustaining loss-bleeding transit systems in the metro areas of the southwest and the southeast of the state just doesn't fit US law as it stands.

Even if secretary LaHood were to OK the PA/I-80 deal opponents would seem to have a good chance of getting the courts to overturn it afterward.

Not surprisingly TRN is for tolling but under the confines of the law:

COMMENT: PA/I-80 should be tolled. Tolling I-80 would level the competition with the Turnpike to the south (I-76/I-70) and with the New York State Thruway (I-90) to the north, levy proper charges on trucks, and generate a revenue stream for maintenance and rehab of an important interstate trucking route.

Trouble is the plan being advanced by the Pennsylvania government under its Act 44 is designed to divert revenues to undeserving and unrelated facilities quite outside the corridor, and doesn't comply with federal law.

As I've said many times before, I still wouldn't like that tolling I-80 at all, but one that would be used solely to support the road is one I could live with.

Other side note, if I-80 needs to be tolled to level out the competition, shouldn't I-86 in NY be as well?

[vdeane]

I don't know what they mean by "level the competition".  Are they trying to drive people off I-80?  The Thruway is congested enough already, we don't need any help from you PA!!!

[Chris]

My guess is about ~ 5,000 AADT may be cross-state traffic on I-80, based on the 17,000 AADT west of I-380.

[Revive 755]

Given the way the state law (Act 44) is written, I don't see why the Feds are taking so long to shoot down the toll proposal again.

[PAHighways]

I wouldn't be surprised if the application is sitting unopened on some desk somewhere at the FHWA.  Or they're just dragging out the inevitable as punishment for the earlier decisions being ignored.

[mightyace]

If they fail, it's another case of politicians swinging for the fence and striking out.  If the state had put in a proposal to toll I-80 for just its own upkeep, it probably would have been approved already.  Now the amount would only be 1/3 to 1/2 of what they want, but that's better than nothing and they'd be just about ready to start collecting tolls about now, IIRC.  Even if they succeed, it will be a year or two before the tolling systems are in place.

I originally got my timeline from http://www.paturnpike.com/I80/project/project_timeline.aspx, but it has the current timeline and not the original one that I am citing from memory.

[vdeane]

Maybe they realize that PA will just resubmit the same application again and again until it's approved, so they're just gonna reject it by never looking at it.

[J N Winkler]

I don't think the application has been left unopened or is just being sat upon.  That is just not how things are done at that level.  First, administrative nonperformance just hands PennDOT and the PTC a stick they can use to beat FHWA with, and exposes pressure points at the political level.  Second, if FHWA is against the tolling proposal because it is not only illegal but also bad public policy, it is in their interest to have it known as clearly and as promptly as possible that this and similar tolling proposals are firmly out of court and will never be approved.  As long as the application is pending, there is ambiguity because there is the theoretical possibility that FHWA could say Yes instead of No.

I would suspect that much of the delay comes from FHWA waiting for legal advice on how to deny the request in such a way that PennDOT and the PTC will give up for good instead of trying again and again.  Part of the problem, from their point of view, is that the legislation PennDOT and the PTC are applying under does not explicitly forbid revolving-door applications, which is essentially what the two Pennsylvania agencies are trying.

[sammack]

Also, most of the wear and tear of a road is from truck drivers, and they pay for the road many times above and beyond what a car will ever pay. And regardless of where they buy diesel, they pay the fuel tax for the state they use it in.

Sorry, I don't believe this.

Bear in mind, 20% or so of the traffic is trucks.  That means 80% is cars.

Furthermore, under IFTA what percentage goes to other states?

Please expand on what you are saying

[PAHighways]

Rendell To Make One Last Push To Toll I-80

[The Unknown Avenger]

He won't win. We'll put him on the Moon Turnpike and we'll see who has the last laugh. 

[exit322]

Furthermore, under IFTA what percentage goes to other states?

Those that pay fuel tax under IFTA prorate their mileage by state and pay tax (or are refunded) based on where they buy their fuel vs where they "should have bought their fuel."  If a truck gets 5 mpg and drives 100 miles in PA and 50 in Ohio, it should have bought 20 gallons in PA and 10 in Ohio - if they bought it all in PA, they'll get a refund (PA tax > Ohio); if they bought it all in Ohio, they'll have to write a check in the quarter.

[Chris]

Geez what a bureaucratic mess for truckers...

[exit322]

It's quite fun, really. 

[PAHighways]

Governor Rendell Expects I-80 News Within Two Weeks

[mightyace]

I got this in my inbox today from the Alliance to Stop I-80 Tolling:

April 5, 2010
Dear Friends,

Governor Rendell said last week that he expects the Federal Highway Administration to make an announcement on the I 80 tolling application within the next two weeks. Rendell says he is "optimistic" although not sure which way they feds will go.

Also last week, House Transportation Committee Chair James Oberstar announced during a hearing on Capitol Hill that despite the revenue shortfall for gas funded infrastructure he adamantly opposes tolling of the interstate highway system because "it's already been build and paid for."

We're grateful for Oberstar's position, but it's hard to say how much weight his statements will carry with the Administration.

Regardless, the tolling application is still being reviewed and tolling advocates are pushing hard to make their views heard both in the media and by the FHWA.

We need you to do the same. Please continue to call and submit letters to Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and Administrator Victor Mendez.

Call the Department of Transportation at (202) 366-4000 and ask to be transferred to each Secretary LaHood and Administrator Victor Mendez's assistant (Maria Thomas) to leave your comments.

Also please let us know if you need assistance with draft  responses to pro-tolling letters and editorials featured in your local media.

For daily updates,  you can follow the Alliance on Facebook and encourage your friends, family and colleagues to do the same!

Thank you for your continued efforts in the fight.

The Alliance is made possible through member contributions.  Please consider making a donation at www.noi80tolls.com

P. S. This is not a clickable image.  Now it is - S

[PAHighways]

Called It

Now if I could guess Powerball or Mega Millions numbers with such accuracy.

The Governor has scheduled a press conference for 4 PM which will air on PCN.

[LeftyJR]

Called It

Now if I could guess Powerball or Mega Millions numbers with such accuracy.

You beat me to it by 4 mins, Jeff!


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10096/1048294-100.stm

Federal officials again reject tolling I-80


The last statement by Rep. David Levdansky is comical to me...discrimination based on a federal ruling is crazy and I-80 isn't even in northern PA.

[Mr_Northside]

I don't know that I agree with Levdansky 100%... For the most part a projects need will factor in to whatever cuts are to be made... Though when it comes time to decide projects to cut, PennDOT should start "north" and work it's way "south".

At any rate, the long-term plan for I-80 itself should be nothing more than maintenance required for safety (repaving if pavement is so deteriorated as to actually be unsafe, and making sure bridges don't fall down.)  Not that PennDOT had any substantial plans to upgrade any of I-80 in any way anyway. (At least that I was aware of)

[mightyace]

The last statement by Rep. David Levdansky is comical to me...discrimination based on a federal ruling is crazy and I-80 isn't even in northern PA.

Well, since I-80 is north of the mid-point line of the state north/south wise, then it would be considered Northern.  Current residents can correct me if I'm wrong, but "central PA" is generally only used in an E/W sense.  For example, my home town of Bloomsburg is both considered Northeastern and North Central PA depending on who you talk to.

And, well as far as discrimination on projects, that may be pure partisan politics.  Pennsylvania overall has more Democrats than Republicans.  Pittsburgh and Philadelphia do by a wide margin.  However, most of the counties in the northern half of PA have a Republican majority.  (This is evidenced by most but not all of the elected officials whose districts include I-80 are Republicans.)  So, why should Rendell and company worry about angering people on the I-80 corridor as most of them likely did not vote for him and wouldn't vote for his successor regardless of what happened?


The Harrisburg Patriot-News has a similar story:
Federal government rejects state's application to toll Interstate 80, sources say