Traffic signal

[Scott5114]

Whenever I see black traffic signals with yellow visors (or vice versa) I always think about those half and half cookies (one side chocolate, one side vanilla). Don't ask me why.

I eat those cookies every day with my lunch at work.  So, great, does that mean I'm going to think of stoplights on my lunch break now?

You're a member of this forum...you don't already?

[kphoger]

Nah.  I'm not really a stoplight guy.

[steviep24]

I've been noticing that recent signals installed by NYSDOT region 4 all have tunnel visors. NYSDOT signals had mostly cutaway visors until about a year ago.

[jeffandnicole]

Well, the new bike signal was finally activated in my town, locals still quite don't get it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJw_si2QnE

This is what I saw.

At 0:42, you said a car ran a red signal.  There's no way to tell what color the traffic light is here, but what I do see is a car stopping at 0:39.  The Bike/Ped light turns green at 0:44.  It's quite possible that first car stopped early in the yellow phase, because there's absolutely no reason for there to be an all red phase for up to 5 seconds here as there's no reason to clear-out the intersection for that period of time.  Even if that 2nd car (at 0:42) entered right at the beginning of the red, it still made it thru before the Bike/Ped light turned green.  If the light was red longer, that car proved it doesn't need to be longer.

If you believe people are running the red, is it because the light cycles constantly for no reason?  At 1:10, the light turned red for motorists, even though there were no bikes or pedestrians present that could've hit the button.  People are of course going to run the beginning of the red light if they don't want to sit there for no reason.

At 3:08, you said "you can go".  Except, the person did stop at a red light, which turned green just after the motorist stopped.  There's a momentary reaction time when this happens...people don't usually instantly go from brake to gas pedal.  You were also there at the time, so maybe that person was making sure you weren't going to suddenly jump out and cross.

Also interesting at that same time: The person on the sidewalk near you walked right thru the Don't Walk symbol...and yet you didn't say a damn thing about their illegal action.  Earlier, when peds were walking in the bike lane, you didn't say anything bad about that action either.

So, we get it.  Pedestrians Good.  Bikes good.  Cars....badddddd.

Hopefully this light doesn't cycle on its own, and hopefully the crossing is busier during nicer periods of weather.  Because in that video, it's tough to justify its existence for so little traffic.

[hotdogPi]

Hopefully this light doesn't cycle on its own, and hopefully the crossing is busier during nicer periods of weather.  Because in that video, it's tough to justify its existence for so little traffic.

It's a 10-mile trail, and I've walked the whole thing. It's quite busy, but I would still prefer it on a pushbutton instead of automatic.

[jakeroot]

The color of backplates has become an interesting question. The MUTCD requires that backplates be painted black, period. But now they allow the yellow reflective borders which are becoming very common. So the end result is with a yellow head and yellow borders, only a very small part of the backplates is black which kind of defeats the purpose of the original standard. So they might as well just allow the whole backplate to be yellow like in Canada. Though personally I preferred the black backplate without yellow borders.

Speaking from personal experience, the reflective tape makes a world of difference at night. You can easily see a signal,even if it is not operating, when the tape is applied.

The all yellow Canadian backplates help a little but not much.

I've never been to Canada, but judging by what you said I take it the yellow backplates there are not reflective?

Most cities and provinces use yellow backplates. Retroreflective borders are really only common in some places. BC for instance. Example here. Black backplates were common in Canada for decades, but I think they started to fall out of favor in the 80s.

British Columbia was the first place in North America to utilize yellow retroreflective borders, along McKenzie Ave on Vancouver Island, as part of a study. They eventually became standard in BC and then other parts of Canada. That original study, from the late 90s or early 00s, was the reason the FHWA began to allow yellow retroreflective borders in the US.

[Amtrakprod]

Well, the new bike signal was finally activated in my town, locals still quite don't get it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJw_si2QnE

This is what I saw.

At 0:42, you said a car ran a red signal.  There's no way to tell what color the traffic light is here, but what I do see is a car stopping at 0:39.  The Bike/Ped light turns green at 0:44.  It's quite possible that first car stopped early in the yellow phase, because there's absolutely no reason for there to be an all red phase for up to 5 seconds here as there's no reason to clear-out the intersection for that period of time.  Even if that 2nd car (at 0:42) entered right at the beginning of the red, it still made it thru before the Bike/Ped light turned green.  If the light was red longer, that car proved it doesn't need to be longer.

If you believe people are running the red, is it because the light cycles constantly for no reason?  At 1:10, the light turned red for motorists, even though there were no bikes or pedestrians present that could've hit the button.  People are of course going to run the beginning of the red light if they don't want to sit there for no reason.

At 3:08, you said "you can go".  Except, the person did stop at a red light, which turned green just after the motorist stopped.  There's a momentary reaction time when this happens...people don't usually instantly go from brake to gas pedal.  You were also there at the time, so maybe that person was making sure you weren't going to suddenly jump out and cross.

Also interesting at that same time: The person on the sidewalk near you walked right thru the Don't Walk symbol...and yet you didn't say a damn thing about their illegal action.  Earlier, when peds were walking in the bike lane, you didn't say anything bad about that action either.

So, we get it.  Pedestrians Good.  Bikes good.  Cars....badddddd.

Hopefully this light doesn't cycle on its own, and hopefully the crossing is busier during nicer periods of weather.  Because in that video, it's tough to justify its existence for so little traffic.

Alright: So you can clearly see the red hand on the pedestrian signal for lake st which means the signal is red.

I was trying to help cars know when to go and stop since they seemed confused. I didn't talk to the pedestrian about running the hand because I didn't notice.

I actually did call out a runner for running the red light, but it wasn't added in the video. I uploaded it just for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XADVkjZXjjo

The light was currently operating in what is called a coordinated mode, adjusted with other signals on the route since it was filmed during rush hour (which pre covid was very bad here). During free periods it's not like that. Also, you can see pedestrians cross at 1:10, just not immediately.

Sorry if I seemed biased but I'm really not. This signal benefits cars and bikes, you just need to be more knowledgeable on the area.

[Amtrakprod]

MA inverted red arrows: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3968973,-71.2592962,3a,15y,295.59h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQtk4Sz201a_PJnErZENBUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/7dckF5mNUU2pRwfC7

Found a 12-8-8 signal on GSV in Newport News at VA 351's Western terminus.

The other day here we were discussing VA signals so someone mentioned most gone but one other in Western VA still left.

[mrsman]

I found a site with a lot of historic pictures along L.A.'s famous Sunset Blvd running from Downtown LA, thru Hollywood, Beverly Hills, UCLA to Pacific Palisades on the Pacific Ocean.

One picture from 1974 shows the signals at Sunset/Highland.

On the right side, you can see a side mounted 8-8-12-12 controlling the westbound to southbound left turn.  While I grew up relatively close to this intersection, I don't remember the specific signaling.  I believe this may have been a leading protected/permitted left (as it currently is now with 8-8-8-12-12 signal) but probably did not utilize a yellow arrow.  It is interesting, then, that the green orb used a 12" signal and not a 8" signal.  But it is also likely that this was signalized in a different manner.

https://12sunsets.getty.edu/contact-sheet/image/7e3909f1-7b2b-42e2-a0ce-49f40f3899bc?d=0.42787&mode=normal&seed=768&filters=tag,traffic%20light

[US71]

I found a site with a lot of historic pictures along L.A.'s famous Sunset Blvd running from Downtown LA, thru Hollywood, Beverly Hills, UCLA to Pacific Palisades on the Pacific Ocean.

One picture from 1974 shows the signals at Sunset/Highland.

On the right side, you can see a side mounted 8-8-12-12 controlling the westbound to southbound left turn.  While I grew up relatively close to this intersection, I don't remember the specific signaling.  I believe this may have been a leading protected/permitted left (as it currently is now with 8-8-8-12-12 signal) but probably did not utilize a yellow arrow.  It is interesting, then, that the green orb used a 12" signal and not a 8" signal.  But it is also likely that this was signalized in a different manner.

https://12sunsets.getty.edu/contact-sheet/image/7e3909f1-7b2b-42e2-a0ce-49f40f3899bc?d=0.42787&mode=normal&seed=768&filters=tag,traffic%20light

I remember seeing set-ups like that in Chicago

[Caps81943]

https://goo.gl/maps/7dckF5mNUU2pRwfC7

Found a 12-8-8 signal on GSV in Newport News at VA 351's Western terminus.

The other day here we were discussing VA signals so someone mentioned most gone but one other in Western VA still left.

That was me lol, and great find! Assuming this is a state install, that makes two!

(Also super minor, but Sandston is an eastern suburb of Richmond, not at all Western VA).

[thenetwork]

I found a site with a lot of historic pictures along L.A.'s famous Sunset Blvd running from Downtown LA, thru Hollywood, Beverly Hills, UCLA to Pacific Palisades on the Pacific Ocean.

One picture from 1974 shows the signals at Sunset/Highland.

On the right side, you can see a side mounted 8-8-12-12 controlling the westbound to southbound left turn.  While I grew up relatively close to this intersection, I don't remember the specific signaling.  I believe this may have been a leading protected/permitted left (as it currently is now with 8-8-8-12-12 signal) but probably did not utilize a yellow arrow.  It is interesting, then, that the green orb used a 12" signal and not a 8" signal.  But it is also likely that this was signalized in a different manner.

https://12sunsets.getty.edu/contact-sheet/image/7e3909f1-7b2b-42e2-a0ce-49f40f3899bc?d=0.42787&mode=normal&seed=768&filters=tag,traffic%20light

Holy crap!  It's a Jurassic Google Street View!!!

[plain]

https://goo.gl/maps/7dckF5mNUU2pRwfC7

Found a 12-8-8 signal on GSV in Newport News at VA 351's Western terminus.

The other day here we were discussing VA signals so someone mentioned most gone but one other in Western VA still left.

That was me lol, and great find! Assuming this is a state install, that makes two!

(Also super minor, but Sandston is an eastern suburb of Richmond, not at all Western VA).

Not a state install, this was done by the city.

[plain]

MA inverted red arrows: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3968973,-71.2592962,3a,15y,295.59h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQtk4Sz201a_PJnErZENBUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I remember another one somewhere in the Boston metro but I can't remember where.

[mrsman]

I found a site with a lot of historic pictures along L.A.'s famous Sunset Blvd running from Downtown LA, thru Hollywood, Beverly Hills, UCLA to Pacific Palisades on the Pacific Ocean.

One picture from 1974 shows the signals at Sunset/Highland.

On the right side, you can see a side mounted 8-8-12-12 controlling the westbound to southbound left turn.  While I grew up relatively close to this intersection, I don't remember the specific signaling.  I believe this may have been a leading protected/permitted left (as it currently is now with 8-8-8-12-12 signal) but probably did not utilize a yellow arrow.  It is interesting, then, that the green orb used a 12" signal and not a 8" signal.  But it is also likely that this was signalized in a different manner.

https://12sunsets.getty.edu/contact-sheet/image/7e3909f1-7b2b-42e2-a0ce-49f40f3899bc?d=0.42787&mode=normal&seed=768&filters=tag,traffic%20light

Holy crap!  It's a Jurassic Google Street View!!!

Indeed!  This photographer basically took periodic pictures while someone else was driving all along Sunset Blvd.  (I believe he may have been on the bed of a pickup.)  The main focus was on some of the buildings that line the street, such as the famous nightclulbs on the Strip.  But now it is something that we can all utilize and look at.  I find the site a little hard to work with, but it is nice looking at some of these pictures.

[I know that in NYC, the depression era WPA hired photographers to photograph every building in the city.  These photos are now digitized as well and can be accessed here:]

https://1940s.nyc/map#13.69/40.7093/-73.99397

[Amtrakprod]

MA inverted red arrows: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3968973,-71.2592962,3a,15y,295.59h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQtk4Sz201a_PJnErZENBUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I remember another one somewhere in the Boston metro but I can't remember where.

I know where! Watertown square MA


iPhone

[plain]

MA inverted red arrows: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3968973,-71.2592962,3a,15y,295.59h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQtk4Sz201a_PJnErZENBUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I remember another one somewhere in the Boston metro but I can't remember where.

I know where! Watertown square MA


iPhone

That's not the one but thanks for posting that. Is that an FYA?

The one I saw was another 3-section signal.

[fwydriver405]

MA inverted red arrows: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3968973,-71.2592962,3a,15y,295.59h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQtk4Sz201a_PJnErZENBUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I remember another one somewhere in the Boston metro but I can't remember where.

I know where! Watertown square MA


iPhone

That's not the one but thanks for posting that. Is that an FYA?

The one I saw was another 3-section signal.

I'm certain that the signal sections are RA-Y-YA-GA... IIRC, in stop-and-go mode, everything but the Y (circular yellow) section is used, and in flash mode, the circular yellow is the one that flashes. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[Caps81943]

https://goo.gl/maps/7dckF5mNUU2pRwfC7

Found a 12-8-8 signal on GSV in Newport News at VA 351's Western terminus.

The other day here we were discussing VA signals so someone mentioned most gone but one other in Western VA still left.

That was me lol, and great find! Assuming this is a state install, that makes two!

(Also super minor, but Sandston is an eastern suburb of Richmond, not at all Western VA).

Not a state install, this was done by the city.

Rats. Makes only one existing VDOT install then. I know there was another one at Burke and Old Burke Lake in Burke until the mid-2000s, but that one's long gone.

[Amtrakprod]

MA inverted red arrows: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3968973,-71.2592962,3a,15y,295.59h,97.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQtk4Sz201a_PJnErZENBUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I remember another one somewhere in the Boston metro but I can't remember where.

I know where! Watertown square MA


iPhone

That's not the one but thanks for posting that. Is that an FYA?

The one I saw was another 3-section signal.

I'm certain that the signal sections are RA-Y-YA-GA... IIRC, in stop-and-go mode, everything but the Y (circular yellow) section is used, and in flash mode, the circular yellow is the one that flashes. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

You are correct


iPhone

[HTM Duke]

One of the more interesting things I've seen: pedestrian doghouse signals.  It's comprised of a hand/man at the top, with two countdown timers side-by-side at the bottom.  From what time I could observe while waiting on a red light, only the left timer came on during the don't walk phase, with the right timer remaining dark the whole time.  At the intersection of FL-A1A and FL-870:
https://goo.gl/maps/3X8rZo8Sxz9YUx6LA
https://goo.gl/maps/ZYshbJqZn3zhkL1m6

[UCFKnights]

One of the more interesting things I've seen: pedestrian doghouse signals.  It's comprised of a hand/man at the top, with two countdown timers side-by-side at the bottom.  From what time I could observe while waiting on a red light, only the left timer came on during the don't walk phase, with the right timer remaining dark the whole time.  At the intersection of FL-A1A and FL-870:
https://goo.gl/maps/3X8rZo8Sxz9YUx6LA
https://goo.gl/maps/ZYshbJqZn3zhkL1m6

Thats a weird one! Looking through street view history, there is a sign that reads: TRIAL All-Way Pedestrian Signal Phase Weekends and Special Events
https://www.google.com/maps/@26.189836,-80.0966398,3a,15y,31.45h,96.19t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sQ4cZRkPw_42M0cws5Nds8g!2e0!5s20150601T000000!7i13312!8i6656

I'm guessing one countdown is used for the pedestrian scramble and a different for normal operations? Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sign is definitely unique as well being a non-standard FYG background sign.

[STLmapboy]

Baja appears to be getting some nice new mast arms, probably courtesy of its neighbor to the north.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.573522,-115.3493715,3a,75y,112.96h,99.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgGx1eetU6bQnWqtD37lypw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Certainly better than what it replaced.

[plain]

Baja appears to be getting some nice new mast arms, probably courtesy of its neighbor to the north.
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.573522,-115.3493715,3a,75y,112.96h,99.15t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgGx1eetU6bQnWqtD37lypw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Certainly better than what it replaced.

I spun the camera around in your link and saw something in the distance so I went in for a closer look. Looks like those signals weren't the only thing Baja got from its neighbor to the north lol

Image from GSV



moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL)