N.Y./N.J.: Gasoline Runs Short, Adding Woes to Storm Recovery

[cpzilliacus]

N.Y. Times: Gasoline Runs Short, Adding Woes to Storm Recovery

UNION, N.J. – Widespread gas shortages stirred fears among residents and disrupted some rescue and emergency services as the New York region struggled to return to a semblance of normalcy after being ravaged by Hurricane Sandy.

Tiny increments of progress – some subway and bus lines were back in service – in the aftermath of what officials are calling the worst storm to hit New York City continued on Friday. But they were overshadowed by new estimates of the storm's financial cost, struggles to restore power, and by the discovery of more bodies in flooded communities.

In Union, the lines of cars waiting for gas at a Sunoco on Thursday ran in three directions: a mile-long line up the Garden State Parkway, a half-mile line along Vauxhall Road, and another, including a fleet of mail trucks that needed to refuel before resuming their rounds, snaking through a back entrance. The scene was being replayed across the state as drivers waited in lines that ran hundreds of vehicles deep, requiring state troopers and local police officers to protect against exploding tempers.

[SteveG1988]

Simple Solution..HEAD SOUTH NJTP Exit 5/I-295 Exit 47...Gas is 3.33-3.37 a gal cash. Plenty of fuel here.

[PHLBOS]

Simple Solution..HEAD SOUTH NJTP Exit 5/I-295 Exit 47...Gas is 3.33-3.37 a gal cash. Plenty of fuel here.

You're assuming that everyone's still got enough gas in their tanks in order to get there.  While that may be the case for some; other's might be already on 'fumes' so to speak.

[empirestate]

The line at Hess on 10th Ave. and 45th in Manhattan was two lanes wide and stretched down to 37th Street yesterday.

While there are certainly some who can't make it to a more distant station to fill up, I have to imagine at least some motorists who should certainly consider it. I haven't noticed any unusual situations at the stations near me in the Bronx.

[NJRoadfan]

Head south is good advice. No lines at the Parkway service areas once in Ocean County

[NJRoadfan]

To add, gas lines are nuts in Union County right now, particularly on US-22 in Union Township. At 5am people were lined up on both the left and right shoulders of the highway in both directions waiting for the stations to open up. Wait times have gotten up to 2-3 hours in areas. Whats sad is that many smaller off-highway stations have power, but aren't getting any fuel deliveries.

The only good news is more stations are slowly getting power and opening up.

[Alps]

For me, I can either head north and east to NY/CT and refill there, or head south to the Trenton area. I would burn about 4 gallons to head to Trenton and back, which absolutely negates any per-gallon savings I would get vs. biting the bullet and driving north on my planned trip. (Life goes on, and that includes route clinching.)

[mc78andrew]

Major gas lines in westchester county yesterday and today so I'm not sure coming over here would do much for you.  Friend of mine went out at midnight last night to get gas and returned home at 145AM (white plains ny).  Lines were present as far as West Point ny I heard this morning.  I think this is more a perception issue in westchester causing people to panic.  There is plenty of gas but everyone wants it at the same time.  Gas was easy to get in Stamford ct on wednesday, but heard its getting tough there too today. 

Looks like the real issues are those in the neighborhoods worst hit like those that have a lot of people without power...people standing in lines with cans for thier generators right next to people trying to fill up there cars.  My boss saw two people get in a shoving match off I 95 yesterday afternoon. 

This whole thing is pretty painful, but the fuel shortage or the "run" on gas been the most surprising to me.  No way I am headed out tomorrow. There is a bit of a breakdown going on and I'd rather stay at my house which is now totally off the grid powered by 30000kw generator with 1000 gallon propane tank.  Thank god I bought a house that had one of these, bc this is not something I would have ever bought myself. 

[Alps]

http://www.northjersey.com/news/bergen/License_plate_gas_restrictions_take_effect_Saturday_at_noon.html?page=all

[empirestate]

The line at Hess on 10th Ave. and 45th in Manhattan was two lanes wide and stretched down to 37th Street yesterday.

While there are certainly some who can't make it to a more distant station to fill up, I have to imagine at least some motorists who should certainly consider it. I haven't noticed any unusual situations at the stations near me in the Bronx.

To update myself, upon taking a closer look, the stations near me in the Bronx that have no lines are not selling gas at the moment. I am increasingly glad I filled up on Saturday before the storm. (And as to my sorrow at losing my parking-space-that-wasn't-under-a-tree, I got it back the next day with due vigilance. And the tree I had meanwhile been parked under didn't fall anyway.)

[Scott5114]

NPR had a story on this this morning. As they put it, the vast majority of stations have either gas or power, but not both. Trucks delivering gas can't get through (or can't fill up themselves due to power outages at the distribution points), and stations with no power can't pump the gas they have. As more stations get power back things should calm down, hopefully.

This was followed by a story about some economists who think that the stations should be free to charge $25 per gallon to help curb the demand for gas. Their reasoning is that would keep people from buying more than they strictly need (buying half a tank instead of filling up; filling one gas can instead of six like one customer was reported doing in the story). Apparently there are state laws in place that prohibit raising the price.

[mc78andrew]

There is a set of laws against that.   I read something stating that in a state of emergency gas prices are capped at what they were when the emergency was declared. 

I am as free market as anyone, but I think letting a supply/demand situation play out will lead to panic.  Most people would say demand for gas is price in-elastic but that only applies to a point and I am sure 25 bucks a gallon would stop some people...although this area is not poor and it's getting really cold out, so the price may need to be even higher to really curb demand. 

In the short term I think the best way to curb demand is to limit purchases to 25 or 30 dollars worth of gas at the old market price of about 4-4.50 a gallon.  This will slow any further panic and still give people the fuel they need with crushing them in cost terms.  It will, however, create lines. 

Longer term the government needs to be careful not to set a price ceiling that is uncompetitive.  If they do that (was tried in the 1970s I believe) they will definitely get shortages. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Once power returns to most (couple of days) this should calm down.  I will be waiting until nov 12th according to con Edison.  What a mess this is. 

[Perfxion]

I was sent a breaking news update from NY times that they are sending in the army to deliver gas and get some stations back online. Even if they just generate the pumps to allow for gas. Sad thing is northern Jersey has all that gas in those storage tanks right next to I-95. Too bad need power to pump them.

This is what Houston was like during Ike. It sucked! But the best thing everyone down here did first was fill their car. Then everyone with a generator filled their cans. Also heard Christy is putting a ration on gas, cars only, X amount per fill up to get cars off the street near the stations.

If you have a new construction home, get a LP/Natural Gas generator added to the home, added to the house note. It will add about 10 to 15 a month. Well worth it.

[empirestate]

This was followed by a story about some economists who think that the stations should be free to charge $25 per gallon to help curb the demand for gas. Their reasoning is that would keep people from buying more than they strictly need (buying half a tank instead of filling up; filling one gas can instead of six like one customer was reported doing in the story). Apparently there are state laws in place that prohibit raising the price.

Right, but they can, and did, limit the physical amount that could be purchased. $20 worth or so is the number I tended to hear.

[Duke87]

I filled up uneventfully Wednesday morning in Long Island City, at what you might consider my usual station. It was noticeably more active than normal (usually that station has only 1 or 2 cars in it at a time, then there were more like 4 or 5), but no line and no supply issue. That of course was on Wednesday, before the stations really started to dry up.

My car has been parked since then. And I drive infrequently enough that that this point I won't need to fill up again until after the craziness passes.

But of course, such convenience is a luxury... I have a coworker out on Long Island who said yesterday that after he drove home from the train station last night, he wouldn't have enough gas left in his car to make another round trip, and that if he couldn't get gas over the weekend, he couldn't make it into the office on Monday.

[mc78andrew]

Just filled up in Danbury CT with no problem.  There were a couple of nj plates there and the gas attendants said they were seeing a steady flow from nj.  But no real line...only waited for one car...so if you are in westchester and need gas, just head up to Danbury. 

[Duke87]

Talked to my father and he says that in Stamford all the stations right off the Merritt and I-95 are either a mob scene or out of gas, but that stations that are in less prime locations aren't seeing as much of an issue since folks coming in from New York aren't finding them. Also says that today is better than yesterday, which he attributes to that more people are getting their power back and no longer need to fill up all their gas cans for their generators in addition to their cars.

I read somewhere that the percentage of American homes which own a generator has quadrupled since 1999 (12% compared to 3%) - my father points out that in that time frame it has gone from one person in their neighborhood having a generator to them being one of the few in the neighborhood who don't.
The proliferation of backup generators means that you now see a huge spike in local demand for gasoline whenever there is a large blackout.

[NJRoadfan]

my father points out that in that time frame it has gone from one person in their neighborhood having a generator to them being one of the few in the neighborhood who don't.

In my neighborhood its gone from one house (a friend of mine who bought it for Y2K) to just about every house. Some even had a whole house natural gas unit installed. The ones that didn't have a generator, had an extension cord run to a neighbor's house with one. A couple of factors come into play. The cost to purchase a generator has come down, and mindsets have somehow changed. Hurricane/TS Irene was the major tipping point here. Before that storm, hardly anyone owned a generator.

[Interstatefan78]

Just saw this happening today even the US Gas stations on US-22 at RT-122 is closed due to no gas being delivered, but most drivers in the Phillipsburg,NJ area go to Easton, PA to get gas ,and Hess at US-22 3rd street in Lopatcong,NJ has long lines to pick up fuel.

[signalman]

I run a gas station in northern NJ.  Fuel deliveries have been sporadic at best and we get no guarantees of when the next load will come in.  We've had the police on scene whenever we are open to help keep order and tempers from flaring.  Under normal circumstances I work odd hours  (4 am to 1 pm)  Ever since the huricane I've been working even more bizarre hours than normal.  Soon I have to find out if my station has fuel to operate today.  We ran out yesterday afternoon and I could not get any kind of straight answer from fuel logistics when I can expect to see the next tanker truck pull in.  Things will slowly improve as more stations reopen.  Also, as Steve noted Governor Christie has placed an odd/even license plate restriction to help curtail the long wait times and the traffic backups it causes as long lines fill up the shoulder, and in some cases a travel lane waiting for fuel.

[mc78andrew]

I read somewhere that the percentage of American homes which own a generator has quadrupled since 1999 (12% compared to 3%) - my father points out that in that time frame it has gone from one person in their neighborhood having a generator to them being one of the few in the neighborhood who don't.
The proliferation of backup generators means that you now see a huge spike in local demand for gasoline whenever there is a large blackout.

I wonder if this storm creates more demand for the nat gas or LP generators.  I had a debate about this with a co-worker on Friday. 

In some cases the nat gas has been shut off to some neighborhoods because they cannot find all the leaks in the system yet...silver lining there is that these same neighborhoods are pretty much uninhabitable so even if your generator had access to  nat gas it would not matter.  So as long as the gas doesn't got off, you are in great shape.

If you are like me and have an LP generator you are totally off the grid which is a great hedge against the gas scenario I laid out above.  It's an outlier scenario though and if they had nat gas in my neighborhood i probably would have went with it.  The problem I have now is that I do not know if the LP truck will be able to fit under the dangling power lines and fallen trees that are suspended over the back roads to get me an LP delivery.  I'll find out tomorrow. 

Bottom Line:  Things are dicey power wise and there is not much you can do to be 100% covered when something like this comes along. 

One thing is for sure...If am required to have a hurricane deductible on my home (which i thought was crazy when i moved here over the summer but now I totally get), then all gas stations should be required to have generators so when this happens again we are more prepared.  I know that will raise the cost for signalman's station, but i would be willing to pay a few cents more knowing fuel shortages are less likely in a natural disaster.  That's just me though.   

[vdeane]

Perhaps we should also implement a "gas trucks can cut in front of the line whenever they need to refuel" system.  That would help make the supply more regular.

[cpzilliacus]

Perhaps we should also implement a "gas trucks can cut in front of the line whenever they need to refuel" system.  That would help make the supply more regular.

I would also assume that placarded tank truck combinations are prohibited through the various tunnels in New York and New Jersey, which reduces the number of routes that they  can use to get from terminals (presumably located in North Jersey, right?) to gas stations.

[NJRoadfan]

Also please note that the New Jersey Turnpike prohibits carrying gasoline and flammable liquids in containers inside cars on their highway. You can not fill gas cans at the NJTP service areas as a result. They were doing it earlier in the week and the NJSP were ticketing those people leaving the service areas. Nice way to deal with an emergency situation guys.

[cpzilliacus]

Also please note that the New Jersey Turnpike prohibits carrying gasoline and flammable liquids in containers inside cars on their highway. You can not fill gas cans at the NJTP service areas as a result. They were doing it earlier in the week and the NJSP were ticketing those people leaving the service areas. Nice way to deal with an emergency situation guys.

If I lived in New Jersey, that would be worth a phone call or e-mail to Gov. Christie. 

I actually agree with the rule forbidding transport of fuel in cans inside vehicles on roads functionally classified as freeway, but I think that its enforcement ought to be suspended during this emergency.