NJ Turnpike and Garden State Parkway go MUTCD!

[akotchi]

I am aware of the I-676 locations (near Morgan Blvd. exit).  I do sign panel design for NJDOT projects, and they still do not use Clearview.  Nothing I have ever seen or heard suggests that any change to that stance is coming.

[NJRoadfan]

There is one ground mounted Clearview sign for the soccer arena in Harrison on I-280. I'm surprised that fancy new Turnpike sign is ground mounted. I thought they were going to all overhead mounted signs. The one pictured is the only one I saw.

[vdeane]

That sign looks so... normal.

It also looks like the tab is wide enough to accommodate a mileage-based number.

[Ian]

There is one ground mounted Clearview sign for the soccer arena in Harrison on I-280. I'm surprised that fancy new Turnpike sign is ground mounted. I thought they were going to all overhead mounted signs. The one pictured is the only one I saw.

It appears as if they used the poles for the previous sign to mount the new one. I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a temporary fix.

[SignBridge]

An actual exit number tab sign on the NJT!  I think I just felt the earth shake! The beginning of the end for traditional NJ Turnpike signing. They were the last holdout among unique toll-road sign systems in the Northeast. The others, the Connecticut Turnpike and NY Thruway replaced all their original signs in the 1980's and 90's.

But believe it or not, that sign in the photo for Exit-13 is not in MUTCD compliance. It's supposed to show destination places, not bridge names.  Not saying I agree with that standard in all cases; just pointing out a technicality. The bridge names work fine for me.

[NE2]

Bridges are places.

[NJRoadfan]

But believe it or not, that sign in the photo for Exit-13 is not in MUTCD compliance. It's supposed to show destination places, not bridge names.  Not saying I agree with that standard in all cases; just pointing out a technicality. The bridge names work fine for me.

That isn't going to change any time soon either. River crossings are popular destinations and hardly confusing. This is from the same book that says you can't have a street name and a destination on the same sign. Another rule that is often violated.

[NJRoadfan]

Oh, and the Turnpike on-ramp from CR-602/Roosevelt Ave. (Exit 12) in Carteret is signed with an overhead mounted classic green on white TURNPIKE ENTRANCE sign. It wasn't recycled like the one at Exit 8, its a brand new sign! No mention of I-95 either.

[roadman65]

If the NJTA is not going to follow the rules for other things the MUTCD, why are they following for the Exit numbers then?  If the Feds have not done anything about street names and destinations on the same sign to those who violate, then what can they do for this?  Keep in mind PA has been allowed to have the Breezewood, becuase what can they do as its not law.

Personally, I hate to see the old Turnpike signs go as they were an item for years and what made the NJ Turnpike what it is.  It makes this an end of another era.

[SignBridge]

I agree that in the New York Metroplex, river crossings as destinations are reasonable, since there are so many of them that lead to different parts of NYC. But just to show you how absurd that current policy can get: going north on I-87 (Maj. Deegan Expwy.) from the Triboro Bridge, the exit at the Cross Bx. Expwy. for the G.W. Bridge is signed as I-95, Trenton! The signs there no longer say G.W. Bridge. which I think is ridiculous.

And I also agree with you about street names and destinations on the same sign. I never undertood why the Manual discourages that practice. BTW, that's only a recommendation in the MUTCD, not a standard. On Long Island, it's very common to see signs with a road name with 2 destinations (one for each direction) on the state parkways and expressways here. Good that NYS DOT didn't take that Manual advice seriously and let common sense prevail.   

[roadman65]

I agree that in the New York Metroplex, river crossings as destinations are reasonable, since there are so many of them that lead to different parts of NYC. But just to show you how absurd that current policy can get: going north on I-87 (Maj. Deegan Expwy.) from the Triboro Bridge, the exit at the Cross Bx. Expwy. for the G.W. Bridge is signed as I-95, Trenton! The signs there no longer say G.W. Bridge. which I think is ridiculous.

And I also agree with you about street names and destinations on the same sign. I never undertood why the Manual discourages that practice. BTW, that's only a recommendation in the MUTCD, not a standard. On Long Island, it's very common to see signs with a road name with 2 destinations (one for each direction) on the state parkways and expressways here. Good that NYS DOT didn't take that Manual advice seriously and let common sense prevail.   

New Jersey the same.  NJDOT and even the Garden State Parkway mix town names with street names.  If the Garden State Parkway was run by FDOT at Exit 143, the current guide that reads Irvington- Springfield Avenue would just read the road name and Irvington would be on a separate guide before the exit saying Irvington Next 3 Exits (the other two for Lyons Avenue that are signed for Hillside and Maplewood). 

New Jersey generally has no difference from signing in urban and rural areas.

[_Simon]

What are we going to do about this?

[NE2]

If the Garden State Parkway was run by FDOT

???
I-4 exit 65: Osceola Parkway/Animal Kingdom/Wide World of Sports
I-4 exit 77: Turnpike (written out next to the shield)/Miami/Ocala

And this style on I-95, with the street name on the same line as the shield:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.291609,-80.741959&spn=0.034464,0.066047&gl=us&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=28.291657,-80.742059&panoid=swKotqao-f5CANZ1yeHJkQ&cbp=12,338.6,,2,-5.37

What are we going to do about this?

Boycott the Turnpike.

[_Simon]

Boycott the Turnpike.

I drove it today, but both times I stopped dead short in the EZ pass lanes and chucked handfuls of pennies at the booth.  I think we need more organized action though.

[jeffandnicole]

An actual exit number tab sign on the NJT!  I think I just felt the earth shake! The beginning of the end for traditional NJ Turnpike signing. They were the last holdout among unique toll-road sign systems in the Northeast. The others, the Connecticut Turnpike and NY Thruway replaced all their original signs in the 1980's and 90's.

But believe it or not, that sign in the photo for Exit-13 is not in MUTCD compliance. It's supposed to show destination places, not bridge names.  Not saying I agree with that standard in all cases; just pointing out a technicality. The bridge names work fine for me.

Well, when you get up North in NJ, either you're going to have a bunch of minor destinations, or you're going to have dozens of signs that just have "New York City" as the destination.

How about the Exit 16E/18E split of the NJ Turnpike:  16E: New York City.  18E: New York City.

So in some/many instances, something other than the city is quite useful.

[Alps]

How many of you would be ready to jump off bridges if the Turnpike and Parkway were signed in Clearview?

NJ for the most part seems to be resisting Clearview. There are some signs with it on I-676 and I hear a few "contractor specials" on I-280 got it as well. I haven't confirmed the latter yet, I might do that tomorrow when I get photos of these tabbed Turnpike signs. Anyone know if NJDOT has ever specified Clearview in their signing contracts? I can see I-676 being a test install, but I-280 randomly getting it for a single sign replacement on the other end of the state seems odd.

I haven't seen anything on I-280 anywhere.

[roadman65]

If the Garden State Parkway was run by FDOT

???
I-4 exit 65: Osceola Parkway/Animal Kingdom/Wide World of Sports
I-4 exit 77: Turnpike (written out next to the shield)/Miami/Ocala

And this style on I-95, with the street name on the same line as the shield:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.291609,-80.741959&spn=0.034464,0.066047&gl=us&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=28.291657,-80.742059&panoid=swKotqao-f5CANZ1yeHJkQ&cbp=12,338.6,,2,-5.37

What are we going to do about this?

Boycott the Turnpike.

The Turnpike is a designated freeway.
Also, FDOT is starting to come around.  They are using the name/ town methods now, but twenty years ago they did not except in rare cases.  Park Road in Plant City before I-4 was widened was signed like the Parkway is now, but now all Plant City exits leave off the "Plant City" in lieu of PA type of multiple exits for one city signs.

In Downtown Orlando you do not see "Orlando" on each exit like you see for Paterson on I-80 for each individual exit there.

Boycotting the NJT if things keep up for many people will not be hard, as the tolls gone up so much, many are already doing it I am sure unless its absolutely necessary like a jam on US 1 & 9 or something

[NE2]

Well, when you get up North in NJ, either you're going to have a bunch of minor destinations, or you're going to have dozens of signs that just have "New York City" as the destination.

How about the Exit 16E/18E split of the NJ Turnpike:  16E: New York City.  18E: New York City.

So in some/many instances, something other than the city is quite useful.

There are enough destinations: Staten Island, Midtown Manhattan, Bronx... but the crossing names are more useful.

[roadman65]

Well, when you get up North in NJ, either you're going to have a bunch of minor destinations, or you're going to have dozens of signs that just have "New York City" as the destination.

How about the Exit 16E/18E split of the NJ Turnpike:  16E: New York City.  18E: New York City.

So in some/many instances, something other than the city is quite useful.

There are enough destinations: Staten Island, Midtown Manhattan, Bronx... but the crossing names are more useful.

I grew up in North Jersey and the crossing names are well known to most travelers. 

[SteveG1988]

I guess any I-295 Southbound sign saying Del Mem Br is wrong, or I-76 being Desginated Walt Whitman Bridge

In NJ it seems using the bridge as the destination is the norm

[Steve D]

New Jersey is still stuck on those bridges.  Even NYC has moved away from that - signs that used to use the GWB and Triborough Bridge now use Trenton and Queens...

[roadman65]

For years people in NJ (as well as DE & MD) that the Delaware Memorial Bridge  was the link between the Northeast and Mid Atlantic.  Therefore it was well known and like a city almost as many would travel from New Jersey on The Turnpike and to go where next is and was is to US 13 or I-95 to go points south.

The question is will "Pa- Del- Md" still be used as control cities on NJ 495 Westbound approaching its western terminus for NJ Turnpike Southbound still be kept after all of this?  I always liked that sign and its one of few things (other than the large Exit numbers) that still exist as we already are losing the art deco sign at Southbound Exit 6 that was part of history for the toll highway.

[SteveG1988]

New Jersey is still stuck on those bridges.  Even NYC has moved away from that - signs that used to use the GWB and Triborough Bridge now use Trenton and Queens...

There isn't really anything wrong with using the bridge as the destination, it allows you to know as an outsider where each road goes, 676 and 76 could both be signed as Philadelphia, just one would Be Camden Philladelphia and the other Glouschester City Philadelphia

[roadman65]

New Jersey is still stuck on those bridges.  Even NYC has moved away from that - signs that used to use the GWB and Triborough Bridge now use Trenton and Queens...

There isn't really anything wrong with using the bridge as the destination, it allows you to know as an outsider where each road goes, 676 and 76 could both be signed as Philadelphia, just one would Be Camden Philladelphia and the other Glouschester City Philadelphia

On I-295, though, NJDOT did rid themselves of the Walt Whitman Bridge and added Camden instead, but kept Philly for I-76 at Exit 26.

What is now at the 76/676 split has both Philly and Camden with the two river crossings.  Both parties here are covered.  The only thing is a Downtown Philadelphia should be added for I-676 as I-76 bypasses it.  I think South Philadelphia should be used with the Walt Whitman Bridge and Downtown Phila should be used with Camden and the B. Franklin Bridge as an added feature.

[SignBridge]

Roadman65, interesting that you mentioned that "Pa-Del-Md" sign approaching the NJT from the Lincoln Tunnel. I too have always liked that sign. It's been there since I was a teenager in the 1960's. That sign at that location always seemed to be the "gateway" to travel in that direction on interesting trips.  Yes, let's hope it stays!

Also to all, a point of information in this discussion about control cities/destinations vs. bridge and tunnel names. The MUTCD favors city names consistent with their theory that signing is oriented to drivers not familiar with the region, and so a city name in theory is more useful than a bridge or tunnel. Again, I don't agree with that policy in all cases. As several other posters have pointed out, sometimes showing both or just a river crossing might be more useful.