Big Blue Service Signs (with Logos) -- Endangered Species???

[thenetwork]

While driving recently on the Interstate, and noticing that one of the Big Blue Service Signs (BBSS) was lacking a couple of familiar gas station logos on the sign for available gas stations at the next exit, the following musing came into my mind:

With the combination of most newer vehicles having build in GPS maps (including a somewhat accurate listing of services), portable GPS systems in older cars and/or smartphones with GPS or service-finding applications (gasbuddy.com,...), is the BBSS days in their senior years?  Is the BBSS craze over?  Are these contractors starting to see sales slide due to improved technology and more tech-savvy drivers?

Judging by the fact that I am starting to see more and more once-full BBSS having more and more vacancies, I start to wonder if businesses don't need/want to pay these BBSS contractors anymore to display their logo if they know more and more drivers are relying more on in-car or smart phone technology to find their businesses -- especially in areas where the contractor will place a directional/distance sign on the off-ramp, but not provide any other directional signs if & when needed.

Discuss.

[corco]

I guess they're probably eventually going to go away, but I often depend on them if driving alone, because it's a lot easier when I'm driving to just look at the blue signs than try to find a restaurant on the phone or the GPS- if I have a passenger, then I'd probably be  more apt to ignore those signs. The other thing, and I realize this can be hit or miss, is that when I see the blue sign I know it's something I can easily access off the freeway and if I'm in a hurry that's a very good thing.

[spmkam]

Sometimes, these can be misleading. Certain areas seem to never have them, while others have them for each exit.

[vdeane]

One interesting thing I noticed is that I-781 has blue service signs for the US 11 exit - but they're all empty!

[cjk374]

I don't use GPS or internet on my phone.  I, and others who don't use this technology, need these BBSSs when we are in unfamiliar territory and need to know what these exits have to offer service wise.  I can't possibly be the only person on planet Earth who don't intend use this technology or can't afford to use it.  I don't think these signs are going anywhere anytime soon.

I still remember the old text-only blue service signs we had in Louisiana.  In fact, my hometown exit was the last to lose its text-only blue service sign, even though the services had been gone for several years. The sign said this:

PHONE-GAS
(camping was blued out here)
NEXT RIGHT

The camping was for an old KOA campground that was closed in the early 80s, and now it's a shooting range for the Lincoln Parish Sheriff's office.  The phone & gas was for a gas station almost a mile away in town.  There were no signs on the exit ramp directing traffic to the direction of the services.  Today's BBSSs are much better than what we had in the past, & I think they're here to stay.

[cpzilliacus]

Maryland and Virginia have them in what the state DOTs consider "rural" areas, which is not always consistent.  They do not generally post them on the Capital Beltway, nor on Virginia's part of I-395.

But they are posted on I-95 north and south of the Capital Beltway, respectively.

[seicer]

Depends from state to state.

West Virginia posts LOGO signs on interstates (since the 1980s) and TODS/LOGOS on rural expressways/corridors (since 1999). US 22 is included in the LOGO program. There is a charge per year, and I am not for sure if it covers the cost of the program, signage and maintenance. My only complaint is that the state tends to be too reliant on the logos. For instance, some state parks are listed just on the logo (e.g. a very boring brown background with regular, small typeface for a state park). In other states, these state tourist attractions would be on their own separate tourist/attraction (Limited Supplemental Guide) sign.
http://www.transportation.wv.gov/highways/traffic/Documents/TodsLogoManual.pdf

Kentucky more extensively uses Limited Supplemental Guide signs for attractions, in addition to logo signs for its interstate and parkways. I cannot recall seeing logo signs for other types of roadways. The state has started using more standarized Culture and Recreation, and Tourist Oriented Directional signs for its other highway classifications - but is dependent on the district, unfortunately.
http://transportation.ky.gov/Sign-Programs-and-Standards/Pages/default.aspx

Ohio also uses LOGO signage on its expressways and interstates, and TODS on some expressways. The use of the LOGO outside of interstates was more recent - I remember then LOGO signs going up on US 52 in the late 1990s, and only for interchanges, not intersections.
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Operations/Traffic/miscellaneous/Pages/SigningPrograms.aspx

[jp the roadgeek]

CT was a late adaptor to the BBSS's with logo.  Used to see them all the time in NY and NJ when traveling.  They're still quite common, but I haven't seen them updated in a long time.  As the (ugly) button copy signage is being replaced with reflective signs, the new signs include just the service bar on the bottom of the sign.

[PurdueBill]

Ohio has not only kept button copy blue logo signs as button copy BGS get replaced with Clearview (gah!), but there are even instances of button copy blue logo signs being installed in the last couple years--obviously recycled from other locations, but still it's nice to see button copy "newly" installed.  A pair were installed on US 30 west of Mansfield in 2009 on a stretch with otherwise no button copy, and I think at least some of the ones on US 52 are button copy as well.  Also, when I-71 exit 209 was split into an A-B a couple years ago, they actually got button copy letter Bs and tacked them on the existing button copy blue logo signs!  I was excited....not only are the logo signs going strong, but they are button copy's last stand here!

[jeffandnicole]

With the combination of most newer vehicles having build in GPS maps (including a somewhat accurate listing of services), portable GPS systems in older cars and/or smartphones with GPS or service-finding applications (gasbuddy.com,...), is the BBSS days in their senior years?  Is the BBSS craze over?  Are these contractors starting to see sales slide due to improved technology and more tech-savvy drivers?

I don't think you're going to see these "Specific Service Signs" going away anytime soon.  While what you mentioned above is true, there are a LOT of people that don't use GPS/Smartphone systems. And just because people are using a GPS doesn't mean that they're suddenly going to look up a place for food/gas/lodging.  Many of these signs are probably used by people that say "you know, I'm getting a little hungry, and there's a restaurant here, and I'm in the mood for that type burger, so I'm going to go there".

What is a problem is that the states are upping the amount it costs a store owner to post a sign.  If the owner doesn't believe they're getting their money's worth, they won't renew.  There can be a number of places to go to off the exit, but the signs won't reveal that.

[pianocello]

I haven't noticed BBSS usage diminish in my neck of the woods, and it might be due to the fact that texting, surfing the net, etc. while driving is illegal in Iowa and Illinois. I feel like there are enough drivers without passengers on the road for the DoTs to keep the signs.

[roadman65]

I was wondering why in Florida the FDOT or its contractors, allowed Wawa to be placed on the I-4 Exit 80 blue service sign in Orlando, when the Wawa store is located over 3 miles south of the said interchange.  I know that there are no limits as far as the technical aspect of it, but the travel over the 3 plus miles has you pass many other stores with a lot of stop and go traffic in between.

Is it even practical for Wawa to advertise here?  I know some, but very few, who would go the extra miles for a Wawa given their good reputation, however there are no follow up ramp signs indicating mileage at the exit so you are on your own.  This is also the same sign that advertised a Quincy's Steakhouse for several years after it closed its doors to the public.  BTW, the now defunct Quincy's was 3 miles exactly from the interstate.

[NE2]

I was wondering why in Florida the FDOT or its contractors, allowed Wawa to be placed on the I-4 Exit 80 blue service sign in Orlando, when the Wawa store is located over 3 miles south of the said interchange.

Rick Scott campaign donations.

Seriously, have you asked them?

PS: for the 1 mile rule, see http://www.dot.state.fl.us/trafficoperations/pdf/Rule_Chapter_14-51_FAC_11_24_11.pdf

[A.J. Bertin]

I hope those signs aren't going away anytime soon. I use them when I'm driving past different places where I'm not familiar with the services at the exits. I don't have any interest in relying on a GPS, so it's kinda handy to have those signs in place. Like others have said, though, I hope the sign contractors don't raise the prices too high that the merchants don't want to be listed on the signs.

[jeffandnicole]

I was wondering why in Florida the FDOT or its contractors, allowed Wawa to be placed on the I-4 Exit 80 blue service sign in Orlando, when the Wawa store is located over 3 miles south of the said interchange.  I know that there are no limits as far as the technical aspect of it, but the travel over the 3 plus miles has you pass many other stores with a lot of stop and go traffic in between.

Is it even practical for Wawa to advertise here?  I know some, but very few, who would go the extra miles for a Wawa given their good reputation, however there are no follow up ramp signs indicating mileage at the exit so you are on your own.  This is also the same sign that advertised a Quincy's Steakhouse for several years after it closed its doors to the public.  BTW, the now defunct Quincy's was 3 miles exactly from the interstate.

Actually, I think there is a 3 mile limit, unless there are no other options.

[roadman]

LOGO service signs in Massachusetts generate annual revenue of $1,200 per interchange for each company that has their logo on the signs at that specific location.  The exception is for the company that originally put the signs in - they get a waiver of the fee for as long as it takes for them to recoup their investment (i.e. if the sign installations cost $12,000, their fee is waived for ten years).  LOGO signs are permitted on most Massachusetts Interstates and freeways, with the exception of highways east of the Cape Cod Canal (the locals don't like signs cluttering up their "pristine" landscape).

An increasing number of big blue service sign panels in Massachusetts have space for six LOGO panels, and they fill up pretty quickly at most locations.  That amounts to $6,000 in revenue per service, and that's per interchange.  If you have multiple services at an interchange, that could be up to $18,000 per year for a specific location.

Given these numbers, I don't think big blue service signs are going away any time soon, at least in Massachusetts or other states that have similar fee structures.

[roadman]

I was wondering why in Florida the FDOT or its contractors, allowed Wawa to be placed on the I-4 Exit 80 blue service sign in Orlando, when the Wawa store is located over 3 miles south of the said interchange.  I know that there are no limits as far as the technical aspect of it, but the travel over the 3 plus miles has you pass many other stores with a lot of stop and go traffic in between.

Is it even practical for Wawa to advertise here?  I know some, but very few, who would go the extra miles for a Wawa given their good reputation, however there are no follow up ramp signs indicating mileage at the exit so you are on your own.  This is also the same sign that advertised a Quincy's Steakhouse for several years after it closed its doors to the public.  BTW, the now defunct Quincy's was 3 miles exactly from the interstate.

Actually, I think there is a 3 mile limit, unless there are no other options.

From the 2009 MUTCD, Section 2J.01:

Guidance:
08 Except as provided in Paragraph 9, distances to eligible services other than pharmacies should not exceed 3
miles in any direction.
Option:
09 If, within the 3-mile limit, facilities for the services being considered other than pharmacies are not available
or choose not to participate in the program, the limit of eligibility may be extended in 3-mile increments until one
or more facilities for the services being considered chooses to participate, or until 15 miles is reached, whichever
comes first.

[agentsteel53]

I don't recall ever seeing a pharmacy advertised on a blue sign.

[roadman]

I don't recall ever seeing a pharmacy advertised on a blue sign.

Congress pushed FHWA to provide service signing for 24 hour pharmacies.  The changes allowing these signs were adopted as Revision 1 of the 2003 MUTCD, and were carried over into the 2009 MUTCD.  SInce that time, I don't know of any states that have installed generic signs, let alone LOGO panels, for 24 hour pharmacies on their highways.  The current Massachusetts MUTCD amendments prohibit the installation of such signing in Massachusetts.

[NE2]

FDOT guidance is 1 mile for food: http://www.dot.state.fl.us/trafficoperations/pdf/Rule_Chapter_14-51_FAC_11_24_11.pdf

[Alps]

I don't recall ever seeing a pharmacy advertised on a blue sign.

Congress pushed FHWA to provide service signing for 24 hour pharmacies.  The changes allowing these signs were adopted as Revision 1 of the 2003 MUTCD, and were carried over into the 2009 MUTCD.  SInce that time, I don't know of any states that have installed generic signs, let alone LOGO panels, for 24 hour pharmacies on their highways.  The current Massachusetts MUTCD amendments prohibit the installation of such signing in Massachusetts.

When I was developing the revisions to the NJTA that were just published, at first we were looking at everything MUTCD-related, which includes service signs. We considered allowing signs for 24-hour pharmacies (note that the NJTA will not sign food or gas because those are at service plazas and there's an agreement in the vendor leases), then got confirmation that NJ does not participate in that program, and the NJTA will follow NJ's lead in that regard in the future.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't recall ever seeing a pharmacy advertised on a blue sign.

Congress pushed FHWA to provide service signing for 24 hour pharmacies.  The changes allowing these signs were adopted as Revision 1 of the 2003 MUTCD, and were carried over into the 2009 MUTCD.  SInce that time, I don't know of any states that have installed generic signs, let alone LOGO panels, for 24 hour pharmacies on their highways.  The current Massachusetts MUTCD amendments prohibit the installation of such signing in Massachusetts.

When I was developing the revisions to the NJTA that were just published, at first we were looking at everything MUTCD-related, which includes service signs. We considered allowing signs for 24-hour pharmacies (note that the NJTA will not sign food or gas because those are at service plazas and there's an agreement in the vendor leases), then got confirmation that NJ does not participate in that program, and the NJTA will follow NJ's lead in that regard in the future.

One of my stories from working Interchange 3 of the NJ Turnpike - frequently (about once a weekend), I'd have someone come off the Turnpike, usually Northbound, thinking it was a rest area.  I even had people tell me there were signs saying there was a McDonalds there.  I could never figure out why these errors occurred so frequently - as Steve said, there's no Logo signs for food, there's no billboards nearby for McDonalds, and there's no sign stating there's a Service Plaza (again, not a rest area) coming up anytime soon. In fact, the NJ Turnpike signs never say 'Rest Area', so it would be impossible to claim there was a sign stating Rest Area. The only thing I could guess was the turnpike does have the Hotel logo signs.  The Red Roof Inn logo was red, and tired travelers may have confused that for a McDonalds sign. 

They'll then argue with me that there's no rest area there.  All I could do was shrug my shoulders.

[roadman65]

I was wondering why in Florida the FDOT or its contractors, allowed Wawa to be placed on the I-4 Exit 80 blue service sign in Orlando, when the Wawa store is located over 3 miles south of the said interchange.

Rick Scott campaign donations.

Seriously, have you asked them?

PS: for the 1 mile rule, see http://www.dot.state.fl.us/trafficoperations/pdf/Rule_Chapter_14-51_FAC_11_24_11.pdf

I am not talking about the technical end of it.  I am just pointing out that this kind of action could be one to make the blue logo signs extinct.  You have a situation like this, I am sure after 1 mile being off of I-4 you are not wanting to go further, so many never get to Wawa.

The Quincy's situation has happened to me once in MO with a closed White Castle Hamburger store, and if there are other cases of this, and if others have experienced it I am sure most would quit trying to find it once you reach either Holden or Americana and maybe slightly further if it is a rural and sparsely developed area.

The point is it digs into the creditability of the signs, and that could end up an issue for the signs down the road.

[thenetwork]

^^ All these years, I've always wondered why the Ohio Turnpike only posted BBSSs for Lodging (and Camping?) on the mainline...and despite my infinite wisdom, it never dawned on me why they never promoted off turnpike Gas or Food.

[Brandon]

The logo signs are fine, but I would like to see the text replaced with the symbol for food, fuel, lodging, or the pharmacies.