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New US metropolitan area definitions

Started by iowahighways, March 19, 2013, 07:36:30 PM

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iowahighways

The revised definitions for Metropolitan, Micropolitan, and Combined Statistical Areas based on the 2010 census are now online:
Thoughts?

(Also, the latest population estimates for these areas can be found here.)
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3467

They cover so much of the US they are almost meaningless in defining rural /urban. I noticed one really bizarre change. In Illinois Warren County is no longer micropolitan even though there is still a lot of commuting between Knox. It is down because of the economic collapse of Galesburg but Hancock which is one of the emptiest most rural counties is in a microploitan areas

kphoger

Quote from: 3467 on March 19, 2013, 08:06:42 PM
...even though there is still a lot of commuting between Knox.

Ooh!  I have a good joke!

What's the difference between a chicken?

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

agentsteel53

Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2013, 08:57:18 PM

Ooh!  I have a good joke!

What's the difference between a chicken?

The Grand Alan.  and that's not a joke.
live from sunny San Diego.

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kphoger

Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 19, 2013, 08:59:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 19, 2013, 08:57:18 PM

Ooh!  I have a good joke!

What's the difference between a chicken?

The Grand Alan.  and that's not a joke.

Wrong.

Correct answer:  Both legs are the same length.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

iowahighways

#5
I'll give my Iowa observations:

Plymouth County was finally added to the Sioux City MSA! Considering that the north city limits of Sioux City border Plymouth County and a small piece of Sioux City along US 75 actually extends into it now, it's about time. That was the only county change as far as Iowa metros are concerned.

Des Moines/Ames and Cedar Rapids/Iowa City are now CSA's, a move that was also overdue. In the case of the former, the Newton and Boone micropolitan areas are included to create a CSA with nearly three quarters of a million people. In addition, the Quad Cities metro is now part of a CSA with the Clinton and Muscatine micros.

One new micropolitan area to speak of: Fairfield, since it and neighboring Maharishi Vedic City form an urban cluster with over 10,000 people now. Meanwhile, Pella (Marion County) is no longer a micro -- even though the city itself topped 10,000 after the 2000 census, the Pella urban cluster only has 9,745. Carroll also has slightly over 10,000 in the city limits, but slightly less than that in its urban cluster, which is why it's not a micro either. (Point of reference: Urban area/cluster populations by state)

Davis County was added to the Ottumwa micro, but Louisa County was dropped from the Muscatine micro. And Keokuk/Fort Madison is now a tri-state micro with the addition of Hancock County, IL, to Lee County, IA, and Clark County, MO. I know there are several tri-state metros, but this is the only tri-state micro I can think of by looking at the map linked above.
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Duke87

Personally I find the idea of having granularity only to the county level to be unfairly limiting, since the trends of who commutes where simply don't break down that way.

For example, towns such as Stamford and Norwalk, CT are definitely "Metro New York". But Sherman and New Fairfield, also in Fairfield County, are decidedly not.

More extreme examples can be found out west where counties can get big. The Los Angeles metro area definitely encompasses a chunk of San Bernardino county, but by including that county you also include a shitload of mostly empty desert, some of which is 200 miles away from downtown LA.


To get a more appropriate granularity I would go by zip code...
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

DTComposer

Quote from: Duke87 on March 19, 2013, 11:17:46 PM
Personally I find the idea of having granularity only to the county level to be unfairly limiting, since the trends of who commutes where simply don't break down that way.

For example, towns such as Stamford and Norwalk, CT are definitely "Metro New York". But Sherman and New Fairfield, also in Fairfield County, are decidedly not.

More extreme examples can be found out west where counties can get big. The Los Angeles metro area definitely encompasses a chunk of San Bernardino county, but by including that county you also include a shitload of mostly empty desert, some of which is 200 miles away from downtown LA.

To get a more appropriate granularity I would go by zip code...

Another example is when two distinct and distant urban areas are part of the same metro simply because they're in the same county (see Santa Barbara and Santa Maria, who are 75 miles of rural wine country apart).

This is a major flaw in the defining of metro areas. I know at least in 1930 and 1940 they were defining metropolitan "districts" using sub-county areas (from what I recall it was often by townships). They switched to county-based areas in 1950.

Today, they have a more appropriate granularity available in urban areas and urban clusters, which are built from census block groups. Why they haven't switched to that is beyond me, unless it's too difficult to pull comparable data from previous censuses.

In addition, I find the use of commuting patterns to be the major data in delineating what counties go in which areas dated. This seems appropriate for say, 1960, when the "typical" household had one wage earner who commuted to a central business district. With multiple wage earners, telecommuting, hyper-commuting, home-based businesses, and such, not to mention an increasing retired population, today commuting should be just one part of the puzzle. What about media markets, destinations for shopping, dining and cultural/entertainment events, enrollments at community colleges and "commuter" schools, and definitions used by local quasi-governmental organizations? What about the fact that there is simply unbroken, continuous urban development?

This is a point of contention concerning the Bay Area. Almost every colloquial usage of that term means the nine counties that touch San Francisco Bay (and has meant as such for generations). This is reflected in media markets (the major TV stations as well as many of the radio stations all use San Francisco, San Jose and Oakland in their IDs), news coverage, sub-governmental agencies, scholarly publications and just general everyday discussion. And there is continuous development from San Francisco straight on down the Peninsula through San Jose, and up the other side of the Bay to Oakland and beyond.

But the Census Bureau, citing commuting patterns, has always split San Francisco-Oakland and San Jose into two metros (although they are together in the larger Combined Area, and they do the same for Los Angeles and the Inland Empire).

I'd be curious to see the actual commuting data to see how this methodology exactly plays out. I do find it interesting that they now include San Joaquin County (Stockton) in the San Francisco-San Jose combined area.


A.J. Bertin

Interesting stuff. Being from Michigan, I of course was looking specifically at the Michigan list. I had never heard the word "micropolitan" before, so this is neat information. Thanks for sharing!
-A.J. from Michigan

codyg1985

I find it interesting that Jackson County, AL got added to the Chattanooga Combined Statistical Area (CSA). Jackson County is the largest county in Alabama, and there are a few people, especially from Scottsboro west that commute to Huntsville and into Marshall County, AL (which got added into the Huntsville-Decatur CSA). I still say Lincoln County, TN should have been added to Huntsville-Decatur, but I guess it was just short of the criteria.

The Birmingham CSA now covers ten counties, now that it includes the Talladega-Sylacauga Micropolitan Statistical Area as well as the Cullman Micropolitan Statistical Area.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

roadman65

Isn't the census bureau in charge of defining the metro areas, or at least I would think?  I do see when looking up certain cities on Wikipedia they use the term "metropolitan statistic area" including small towns that are outside of big ones.  I would figure that is the proper way one would consider them as the rest is either marketing areas or personal interpretation.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

DTComposer

Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2013, 02:01:50 PM
Isn't the census bureau in charge of defining the metro areas, or at least I would think?  I do see when looking up certain cities on Wikipedia they use the term "metropolitan statistic area" including small towns that are outside of big ones.  I would figure that is the proper way one would consider them as the rest is either marketing areas or personal interpretation.

The Office of Management and Budget is in charge of defining the metro areas, and the Census Bureau uses those definitions when publishing their data. The use counties as their building blocks, and commuting patterns to determine whether to combine counties into one area.

The problem is that county boundaries don't always follow urban development or commuting patterns, so there are some inherent flaws in the system (as mentioned above, see San Bernardino County as an example).

As you say, any attempt to define a metropolitan area is going to be subject to personal opinion, and using any particular criteria is going to have some flaw or exception along the way. Using a combination of criteria (say, counties, commuting patterns, television market areas, urban development/density, newspaper circulation, etc.) might provide a more "accurate" picture, but again, how much each criteria is weighed allows for subjective analysis.

That being said, as I said above, with the wealth of data available, I don't think county boundaries and commuting patterns alone are enough to make a good determination of what a metropolitan area is.

golden eagle

As MS is concerned, Yazoo County was added to the Jackson metro area, and Benton was added to Memphis. The Gulfport-Biloxi & Pascagoula metros were combined as one, but George County was dropped from Pascagoula and Stone was dropped from G-B.

When was Daphne-Fairhope-Foley designated as its own metro?

golden eagle

Has any city ever lost its metro status without being absorbed by another metro?

jwolfer

Quote from: DTComposer on May 04, 2013, 03:30:16 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2013, 02:01:50 PM
Isn't the census bureau in charge of defining the metro areas, or at least I would think?  I do see when looking up certain cities on Wikipedia they use the term "metropolitan statistic area" including small towns that are outside of big ones.  I would figure that is the proper way one would consider them as the rest is either marketing areas or personal interpretation.

The Office of Management and Budget is in charge of defining the metro areas, and the Census Bureau uses those definitions when publishing their data. The use counties as their building blocks, and commuting patterns to determine whether to combine counties into one area.

The problem is that county boundaries don't always follow urban development or commuting patterns, so there are some inherent flaws in the system (as mentioned above, see San Bernardino County as an example).

As you say, any attempt to define a metropolitan area is going to be subject to personal opinion, and using any particular criteria is going to have some flaw or exception along the way. Using a combination of criteria (say, counties, commuting patterns, television market areas, urban development/density, newspaper circulation, etc.) might provide a more "accurate" picture, but again, how much each criteria is weighed allows for subjective analysis.

That being said, as I said above, with the wealth of data available, I don't think county boundaries and commuting patterns alone are enough to make a good determination of what a metropolitan area is.

A good example is Ocean County NJ.  It is part of the NYC metro area and the Northern part of the county is more in New York's influence but the southern part is more in Philadelphia's orbit.  With that being said even where I grew up in the Northern coastal part of Ocean County we still got the stronger Philly radio stations and the whole county has TV stations from both NYC and Philadelphia on cable.  The best news coverage for the county is from channel 6 in Philadelphia.    Really its closer to Philadelphia but most of the new residents came from Northern NJ or NY, so they bring the New York influence with them

JMoses24

Two observations from the Cincinnati area:

I note that Franklin County, Indiana is not in any micro/metropolitan area. Why would this be? The majority of folks there likely commute to either Cincinnati, Dayton or maybe Hamilton, Ohio (which is in Butler County).

Likewise, Middletown, Ohio has lost it's Micropolitan status (it is in Butler County). Most people here probably commute to Cincinnati, but I imagine a good portion of those in the northern extent go to Dayton.

In about 10-20 years, I imagine we will be talking about a Dayton/Cincinnati metroplex. I'm kinda surprised we aren't already, actually.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Duke87 on March 19, 2013, 11:17:46 PM
To get a more appropriate granularity I would go by zip code...

Problem with Zip Codes is that they have no "legal" standing (in terms of state law) like county (and sometimes municipal) boundaries do.

Most planning efforts have relatively little in common with Zip Codes.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: jwolfer on May 10, 2013, 03:37:31 PM
A good example is Ocean County NJ.  It is part of the NYC metro area and the Northern part of the county is more in New York's influence but the southern part is more in Philadelphia's orbit.

Similarly, Anne Arundel County, Maryland is somewhat split in two.  The Baltimore region's airport (BWI) is in the county, and the northern part borders Baltimore City, so the county is considered part of the Baltimore region.   The state capitol is in the county (in Annapolis), but many state jobs are in Baltimore City.

But further south, the county morphs into a suburb of Washington, D.C., even though it does not come close to bordering D.C.  Areas of the county that are close to or south of U.S. 50/U.S. 301 are very much in the orbit of Washington, not Baltimore.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Desert Man

I refer to the Greater Los Angeles area a "megalopolis" when it stretches 100x100 miles east and west, north and south from downtown L.A., and basically absorbed San Diego (a typically separate metropolis)to form the second largest super-metropolis in the country. The Greater Los Angeles megalopolis is the second largest after the New York City megalopolis starting from Boston to Philly and Washington DC to end in the Hudson and Delaware valleys, and in adjacent states of New Hampshire and Virginia. There are open spaces between Santa Barbara and Ventura, and the Tejon, Agua Dulce, Cajon, San Gorgonio and Rainbow passes break up the megalopolis into smaller micropolises, growing areas of developed land or suburban sprawl.
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

DTComposer

Quote from: Mike D boy on May 13, 2013, 05:32:26 PM
I refer to the Greater Los Angeles area a "megalopolis" when it stretches 100x100 miles east and west, north and south from downtown L.A., and basically absorbed San Diego (a typically separate metropolis)to form the second largest super-metropolis in the country. The Greater Los Angeles megalopolis is the second largest after the New York City megalopolis starting from Boston to Philly and Washington DC to end in the Hudson and Delaware valleys, and in adjacent states of New Hampshire and Virginia. There are open spaces between Santa Barbara and Ventura, and the Tejon, Agua Dulce, Cajon, San Gorgonio and Rainbow passes break up the megalopolis into smaller micropolises, growing areas of developed land or suburban sprawl.

The Census Bureau was considering defining "agglomerations" which combined adjacent (or nearly so) urban areas. Their agglomeration for Los Angeles included the following urban areas: Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim; Riverside-San Bernardino; Temecula-Murrieta; Oxnard; Santa Clarita; Thousand Oaks; Santa Barbara; Hemet; Simi Valley and Camarillo, but did not include, for example, Lancaster-Palmdale; Victorville-Hesperia; Indio-Palm Springs.
For San Diego they included Mission Viejo-Lake Forest (i.e. South Orange County), which I find interesting.

Their agglomeration for New York went as far northeast as Norwich, CT and as far southwest as Wilmington, DE.

Full list can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas#2010_Urban_Agglomerations



golden eagle

Quote from: JMoses24 on May 12, 2013, 01:51:43 PM

Likewise, Middletown, Ohio has lost it's Micropolitan status (it is in Butler County). Most people here probably commute to Cincinnati, but I imagine a good portion of those in the northern extent go to Dayton.

In about 10-20 years, I imagine we will be talking about a Dayton/Cincinnati metroplex. I'm kinda surprised we aren't already, actually.

I wasn't aware that Middletown lost its metro status. Was it sucked into Cincy or Dayton?

In re: to a Cincy-Dayton metroplex, I could definitely see it if they shared the same media market, like DFW & the Bay Area do. But then again, Baltimore & Washington were merged and are separate media markets.

vtk

Columbus MSA seems to have gained a few counties since the last time I really looked. 




Related to some of the discussion in this thread: CommonCensus Map Project
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

Chris

I think the population estimates with these MSAs is okay, but density and area is definitely not a good measure. Most metropolitan areas are over 50% rural and undeveloped which results in very low population density figures. San Bernardino County is of course a statistical outlier (it's larger than some countries), but for example large swaths of the Houston metropolitan area are extremely rural and nearly entirely undeveloped with just one larger town. For instance, Austin County is part of the Houston metropolitan area, but it has a population density that is lower than that of Sweden.

huskeroadgeek

To me, metro areas have become less and less useful over the past 30 years or so in thinking of them as one cohesive area as they expand further into primarily rural counties. Those definitions may be useful for some statistical purposes, but when I think of a city's metro area, I think more in terms of the "built-up" area. Today there are large parts of metro areas that are outside of that "built-up" area, and are nothing but rural areas and small towns that look no different than any other rural area and small town that aren't part of a metro area. I realize there are reasons for including such areas in a metro area's definition, but I think in most cases, even most of the people who live in those areas wouldn't identify themselves as being part of the major city's metro area. I think that's particularly true of people who live in small towns that are technically part of a city's metro area, but are far enough away from the main city to not be a suburb. While people who live in those towns likely travel often to the main city for work and services, they also usually treasure their independence and separation from the main city.

NE2

Quote from: huskeroadgeek on June 02, 2013, 03:29:52 PM
To me, metro areas have become less and less useful over the past 30 years or so in thinking of them as one cohesive area as they expand further into primarily rural counties. Those definitions may be useful for some statistical purposes, but when I think of a city's metro area, I think more in terms of the "built-up" area.
The urbanized areas and urban clusters may be more to your liking: http://www2.census.gov/geo/maps/dc10map/UAUC_RefMap/
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



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