9 Years to Rebuild I-78 in NJ?

[KEVIN_224]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/03/the_never-ending_road_project.html

This runs down how it's taken at least 8 years to rehab an 8-mile section of I-78 between Springfield and Newark, NJ. Part of the problem (they say) is that there is no good alternate if I-78 was completely closed for, say, a month at a time. 

[NE2]

Huh? The other set of lanes are a good alternate for construction detour purposes.

[Alps]

Huh? The other set of lanes are a good alternate for construction detour purposes.

They did that for the express. You can't do that for the local.

[mtantillo]

Huh? The other set of lanes are a good alternate for construction detour purposes.

They did that for the express. You can't do that for the local.

Sure you can. You'll just have to close local exits.  This is what NCDOT did for their I-40 reconstruction in Durham (which took about 6
Years due to contractor mistakes).

[kkt]

Maybe that's slow for NJ.

Loma Prieta Earthquake in Oct. 1989.  Replacement for the east span of the S.F.-Oakland Bay Bridge may open around Labor Day this year.  Even at that, removed of the old span will take years more.

[vdeane]

Huh? The other set of lanes are a good alternate for construction detour purposes.

They did that for the express. You can't do that for the local.

You could knock down the barrier temporarily and shift the detour ramp geometry based on what pavement is available in the lanes being rebuilt.

[NJRoadfan]

Something was left out of the article, they haven't been working continuously on the highway for 8 years. There was breaks between the phases. The project started spring/summer 2006 based on the photos I have. The I-78/GSP interchange "missing moves" project took the majority of time, not the resurfacing. The comments are right though, I-78 local in Union/Springfield has huge longitudinal cracking forming right down the center where the reconstruction was phased. The express lanes don't have that problem since they were completely closed and repaved all at once.

[cpzilliacus]

Something was left out of the article, they haven't been working continuously on the highway for 8 years. There was breaks between the phases. The project started spring/summer 2006 based on the photos I have. The I-78/GSP interchange "missing moves" project took the majority of time, not the resurfacing. The comments are right though, I-78 local in Union/Springfield has huge longitudinal cracking forming right down the center where the reconstruction was phased. The express lanes don't have that problem since they were completely closed and repaved all at once.

Could it be that the construction was phased because NJDOT did not have the money  to have work going on more-or-less continuously?

Also, I am not a civil engineer, but I assume that some work can probably not happen during the winter seasons.

PennDOT (and the PTC) have closed long segments of Interstate (I've seen it done on I-83 and I-79) on one side, while traffic runs in "cattle chute" style (no shoulders) on the other side, usually with a series of entrance and exit ramps closed.

[jeffandnicole]

It could have something to do with the fact that the road and nearby parallel roads runs at near capacity already.  To permanently close lanes would create havoc on the overall travel system.  And people don't want their interchange closed, and it would only tie up traffic on the detour routes as well.

No one likes construction.  No one wants to be inconvenienced.  No one wants lanes or exits closed.  No one likes construction lasting forever.  At some point, something has to give.

The long time for the construction is in exchange of keeping the highway open as much as possible.  People complain construction takes forever.  Another upcoming project is the Pulaski Skyway, which in exchange for a shorter construction timeline, they will close part of the highway.  People complain they won't be able to get around.  It will always be a no-win situation.

[vdeane]

In the case of the Pulaski Skyway, it would be better to make the construction go longer to keep traffic moving.  Though what always gets me is that it's often possible to see remnants of the construction configuration in a newly rebuilt area for years after the project is done, as the construction configuration uses permanent lane paint that doesn't remove easily.

[mtantillo]

In the case of the Pulaski Skyway, it would be better to make the construction go longer to keep traffic moving.  Though what always gets me is that it's often possible to see remnants of the construction configuration in a newly rebuilt area for years after the project is done, as the construction configuration uses permanent lane paint that doesn't remove easily.

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.  If you scrape the paint up properly, you wreck the new pavement surface with grindmarks (which can degrade over time).  If you don't, you get remnants of old markings.  On asphalt projects, they will often avoid placing the top layer until the very end, then they can just put down the permanent markings.  On concrete projects, it is more difficult.

There is "tape" that they can use, but when put down in a temporary configuration, it often comes up too soon so you have tape all over the place!

[vdeane]

I've actually seen both on the same section of Thruway at the same time...

[_Simon]

It could have something to do with the fact that the road and nearby parallel roads runs at near capacity already.  To permanently close lanes would create havoc on the overall travel system.  And people don't want their interchange closed, and it would only tie up traffic on the detour routes as well.

And NJDOT doesn't want the public knowing that they've built virtually no new pieces of the highway network in the last 20 years with a very small number of extensions.  Pretty soon all of the highways are going to be widened until the 1960's ROW acquisition they're sitting on can no longer hold the traffic and NJDOT is going to have to break down and start taking land and building highways through neighborhoods again, and they're going to have to do it at a pace that rivals what it was in the 1960's.  Go to historicaerials and watch in amazement as entire 30-mile segments of interstate go from houses to lanes within a gap of 4 years between photos.   

[jeffandnicole]

It could have something to do with the fact that the road and nearby parallel roads runs at near capacity already.  To permanently close lanes would create havoc on the overall travel system.  And people don't want their interchange closed, and it would only tie up traffic on the detour routes as well.

And NJDOT doesn't want the public knowing that they've built virtually no new pieces of the highway network in the last 20 years with a very small number of extensions.  Pretty soon all of the highways are going to be widened until the 1960's ROW acquisition they're sitting on can no longer hold the traffic and NJDOT is going to have to break down and start taking land and building highways through neighborhoods again, and they're going to have to do it at a pace that rivals what it was in the 1960's.  Go to historicaerials and watch in amazement as entire 30-mile segments of interstate go from houses to lanes within a gap of 4 years between photos.   

I'm pretty sure that's not much of a secret.  Of course, the environmentalists talk as if all transportation funding goes towards highway building, even though they never site any examples of such. 

NJDOT hasn't even done much in the way of widening anyway, and there are extremely few projects where widening is even in the plans, much less any new highways.  Even where a new highway could be built without much in the way of private land taking (ie: NJ 55 to the shore), there's numerous environmental issues, not to mention a lack of local support.  The locals don't exactly like the existing congestion on their roads, but they really don't like another highway cutting thru their backyards.

[Alps]

It could have something to do with the fact that the road and nearby parallel roads runs at near capacity already.  To permanently close lanes would create havoc on the overall travel system.  And people don't want their interchange closed, and it would only tie up traffic on the detour routes as well.

And NJDOT doesn't want the public knowing that they've built virtually no new pieces of the highway network in the last 20 years with a very small number of extensions.  Pretty soon all of the highways are going to be widened until the 1960's ROW acquisition they're sitting on can no longer hold the traffic and NJDOT is going to have to break down and start taking land and building highways through neighborhoods again, and they're going to have to do it at a pace that rivals what it was in the 1960's.  Go to historicaerials and watch in amazement as entire 30-mile segments of interstate go from houses to lanes within a gap of 4 years between photos.   

US 1: Numerous intersections converted to interchanges
US 1/9 Truck: New roadway near Tonnelle Circle
NJ 3: Ongoing massive widening through Rutherford
NJ 4: Complete reconstruction of NJ 17 interchange, releasing the massive weave bottleneck
NJ 7: Wittpenn Bridge replacement has just started
US 9: Plenty of widening south of the Raritan River down toward/past Freehold
NJ 17: Widening to 3 lanes each way; elimination of remaining intersections (may predate the 90s)
NJ 18: Extension to Hoes Lane
NJ 19: Connection from stubs into downtown Paterson
NJ 21: Completion to US 46 as freeway
US 22: Complete reconstruction of NJ 21/US 1-9 interchange
NJ 23: Completion of dualized, divided highway between US 46 and Sussex County (1980s on both ends)
NJ 24: Completion to I-287
NJ 29: New tunnel
NJ 129: New roadway
I-287: Completion from Montville to NY

I got bored of thinking. There are plenty more.

[Interstatefan78]

If they do shut down I-78 West from exit 56-48 then Trans Bridge Lines to Allentown and Pburg will had to stop in Bridgewater and Watchung to act as stop between Clinton and Newark Airport also this will lead to Exit 18 being congested with US-22 West through traffic from Newark and buses that go from PABT to Allentown and in some cases Wyomissing Hills

[_Simon]

If they do shut down I-78 West from exit 56-48 then Trans Bridge Lines to Allentown and Pburg will had to stop in Bridgewater and Watchung to act as stop between Clinton and Newark Airport also this will lead to Exit 18 being congested with US-22 West through traffic from Newark and buses that go from PABT to Allentown and in some cases Wyomissing Hills

Mr. Brown will also have a slower time getting to work in his moderately spacious sedan. 

[seicer]

Had the pleasure of driving both Interstate 78 and 80 over the past week. Interstate 78 has never been so smooth through the rehabbed areas - it was always a nightmare to drive through when it was in its deteriorated state, and it felt as if our suspension would come rattling apart. But Interstate 80, at least westbound, has a lot of old concrete that is in fair to poor condition - and worn down to the nub.

[BrianP]

I got bored of thinking. There are plenty more.

For the south I came up with:
US 322 Mulica Hill Bypass
various circle removals (NJ73/70, NJ 73 in Berlin etc)
NJ 52 new causeway
I-295 reconstruction
NJ 42 widened between NJ 55 and I-295
US 322 had that curve removed and widened just east of I-295
the upgrade to NJ 147 which goes back a ways
That's not much of a list.
Going back further there's
Upgrading NJ 38 east of I-295
the completion of NJ 55

[Interstatefan78]

Had the pleasure of driving both Interstate 78 and 80 over the past week. Interstate 78 has never been so smooth through the rehabbed areas - it was always a nightmare to drive through when it was in its deteriorated state, and it felt as if our suspension would come rattling apart. But Interstate 80, at least westbound, has a lot of old concrete that is in fair to poor condition - and worn down to the nub.

True very evident around exit 11-3 where NJDOT left the original liquid asphalt dating back from 1967 when I-78 was widened to three lanes in each direction, but the segment from exit 3-PA state line is not going to rattle your suspension apart and DRJTBC manages the final 3 miles of I-78 in NJ   

[seicer]

Interesting. The concrete pavement wasn't that old on the first 3 miles of I-78 in NJ, but it was downright one of the worst pavements that I've been on towards the end of its lifespan.

[_Simon]

Interesting. The concrete pavement wasn't that old on the first 3 miles of I-78 in NJ, but it was downright one of the worst pavements that I've been on towards the end of its lifespan.

It, along with the Newark Bay Bridge, are the only segments of road burned into my memory with that bump-per-second rhythm.  Bump.. Bump.. Bump.. Bump.. Bump..

[Interstatefan78]

Interesting. The concrete pavement wasn't that old on the first 3 miles of I-78 in NJ, but it was downright one of the worst pavements that I've been on towards the end of its lifespan.

It, along with the Newark Bay Bridge, are the only segments of road burned into my memory with that bump-per-second rhythm.  Bump.. Bump.. Bump.. Bump.. Bump..

True and in summer of 2012 that bump,bump segment of I-78 is replaced by a concrete pavement, but instead of a bump it makes a high pitched whistle noise similarly to I-78 Exit 51-75 or I-287 Exit 47- I-87 NY thruway

[Alps]

Had the pleasure of driving both Interstate 78 and 80 over the past week. Interstate 78 has never been so smooth through the rehabbed areas - it was always a nightmare to drive through when it was in its deteriorated state, and it felt as if our suspension would come rattling apart. But Interstate 80, at least westbound, has a lot of old concrete that is in fair to poor condition - and worn down to the nub.

And you should have told me you were driving past my place. But the latest I-80 project is indeed replacing that last stretch of original concrete. (There are other places with original concrete "covered" by asphalt, though. "Covered" in quotes due to the pavement condition.)

[Interstatefan78]

Had the pleasure of driving both Interstate 78 and 80 over the past week. Interstate 78 has never been so smooth through the rehabbed areas - it was always a nightmare to drive through when it was in its deteriorated state, and it felt as if our suspension would come rattling apart. But Interstate 80, at least westbound, has a lot of old concrete that is in fair to poor condition - and worn down to the nub.

And you should have told me you were driving past my place. But the latest I-80 project is indeed replacing that last stretch of original concrete. (There are other places with original concrete "covered" by asphalt, though. "Covered" in quotes due to the pavement condition.)

It's also the same with I-78 only the original concrete pavement being around exit 3 in the westbound direction towards exit 75 in easton and exit 52-58 also pa stateline to exit 3 on the eastbound lane has been covered with asphalt since 2010, and 49-52 has been paved with asphalt since 2005-2006