I-195, does it *REALLY* need to be extended???

[Roadsguy]

Pennsylvania has gotten around this issue before by having an alternate internal designation for their two interstates which duplicate state route numbers, but they still consider this unideal and would like to avoid having another instance of it.

I-99 is another instance of it (PA 99 is now SR 0399 (?)).

I wonder why they didn't follow the 283-380 trend and number it secretly SR 0200 or 0500.

[jeffandnicole]

It's not the proximity... They already have an SR 0295.  So what would they give I-295 in their system?

That didn't stop Maryland from designating much of US 40 as I-68 circa late-80s/early-90s even though there already is an unrelated MD 68 (which still holds that designation today).

Different states have different policies about repeating numbers which depend on how they refer to routes internally. The way Maryland does things allows them to differentiate between I-68 and MD 68. But many states simply refer to all routes as route XX and thus cannot have two routes with the same number, even if they are different classes. Connecticut renumbered CT 84 and CT 95 to CT 184 and CT 195 when I-84 and I-95 were introduced to the state in the 1950s, because having two routes with the same number is not possible with the way ConnDOT does their bookkeeping.

Delaware has DE 9 & US 9; annoying in that this region of the country, most roads are simply "Route X".  Rarely do you hear "US 9".

While not quite similiar, I wished Delaware didn't use DE 1, especially as it's become their main North-South Route thru the state.  Just too confusing considering US 1 isn't too far away in neighboring NJ, DE & MD. 

[signalman]

While not quite similar, I wished Delaware didn't use DE 1, especially as it's become their main North-South Route thru the state.  Just too confusing considering US 1 isn't too far away in neighboring NJ, DE & MD. 

I think you mean PA here.  DE isn't a neighbor of DE

[Henry]

It's not the proximity... They already have an SR 0295.  So what would they give I-295 in their system?

That didn't stop Maryland from designating much of US 40 as I-68 circa late-80s/early-90s even though there already is an unrelated MD 68 (which still holds that designation today).

Different states have different policies about repeating numbers which depend on how they refer to routes internally. The way Maryland does things allows them to differentiate between I-68 and MD 68. But many states simply refer to all routes as route XX and thus cannot have two routes with the same number, even if they are different classes. Connecticut renumbered CT 84 and CT 95 to CT 184 and CT 195 when I-84 and I-95 were introduced to the state in the 1950s, because having two routes with the same number is not possible with the way ConnDOT does their bookkeeping.

Delaware has DE 9 & US 9; annoying in that this region of the country, most roads are simply "Route X".  Rarely do you hear "US 9".

While not quite similiar, I wished Delaware didn't use DE 1, especially as it's become their main North-South Route thru the state.  Just too confusing considering US 1 isn't too far away in neighboring NJ, PA & MD. 

It doesn't bother me too much that "Route XX" is used in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic; after all, I grew up in a part of the Midwest that also uses that terminology, as opposed to "Highway XX" that is used predominantly in the South.

Since US 1 goes nowhere through DE (instead skipping from MD directly to PA), I don't think it's a problem at all that there's a DE 1. But I believe that US 13 is the actual main North-South route through the state, since its limited-access companion ends shortly after passing by Dover.

[signalman]

[quote author=Henry link=topic=7640.msg175121#msg175121 date=1348347029
Since US 1 goes nowhere through DE (instead skipping from MD directly to PA), I don't think it's a problem at all that there's a DE 1. But I believe that US 13 is the actual main North-South route through the state, since its limited-access companion ends shortly after passing by Dover.
[/quote]

I'd agree that US 13 is indeed a major North-South route south of exit 97 from DE 1.  US 13 north of there serves mostly local interests and doesn't see much through traffic except from shunpikers. 

[route_82]

I thought more people would be welcoming of the idea of having a new x95 spur in NJ, such as I-695. 

I would hope one day we get to see a state that has a spur off 95 for every number 1-9.  Maryland is so far the closest.

All they need to do is sign I-595, and convert I-97 to I-995 and they're there.

[jeffandnicole]

While not quite similar, I wished Delaware didn't use DE 1, especially as it's become their main North-South Route thru the state.  Just too confusing considering US 1 isn't too far away in neighboring NJ, DE & MD. 

I think you mean PA here.  DE isn't a neighbor of DE

Someday I'll learn to proofread what I write!

Since US 1 goes nowhere through DE (instead skipping from MD directly to PA), I don't think it's a problem at all that there's a DE 1. But I believe that US 13 is the actual main North-South route through the state, since its limited-access companion ends shortly after passing by Dover.

From looking at a map, that's correct about US 1.  However, when actually giving directions, you don't want to confuse someone saying take Route 1.  Because the Route 1 one person is thinking about may be different than the Route 1 that needs to be taken.  Very easy to do, especially when the trip involves both Route 1s!

As for as US 13 goes, while it does appear it's the main route thru the state on paper, it really isn't anymore in terms of traffic flow.  The majority of traffic doesn't go south below Dover, so that makes Route 1 the main route.

[route_82]

I spoke with an engineer today at work who is familiar with the Turnpike/I-95 project.

In our conversation, he explained to me that NJ & PA decided on I-195 because this new 'segment' runs more "east-west".

I checked, it runs north-south for 17 total miles and east-west for about 9 miles.  Last I checked, 17 was bigger than 9.

But he seemed to emphasize that it was a done deal.

FHWA & AASHTO have apparently approved it.

So looks like we'll just have to get used to it... and the new exit numbers.

[Roadsguy]

Meh, I never get to go up there anyway, and I'll be moving away from the area soon, so the better to ignore it with.

[Alex]

Meh, I never get to go up there anyway, and I'll be moving away from the area soon, so the better to ignore it with.

Just file it with the extension of I-44 over former I-70 at St. Louis, the replacement of I-181 with I-26 at Johnson City and the replacement of old I-85 through Greensboro as an extension of BL I-85. Better numberings were possible, but this is what we get.

[jeffandnicole]

I spoke with an engineer today at work who is familiar with the Turnpike/I-95 project.

In our conversation, he explained to me that NJ & PA decided on I-195 because this new 'segment' runs more "east-west".

I checked, it runs north-south for 17 total miles and east-west for about 9 miles.  Last I checked, 17 was bigger than 9.

But he seemed to emphasize that it was a done deal.

FHWA & AASHTO have apparently approved it.

So looks like we'll just have to get used to it... and the new exit numbers.

I see what you're saying, but the overall movement of this half-beltway is East-West. 

Here's the problem if you sign it North-South: The most northern part of this portion of I-95 is around Exit 4 in NJ.  So if you use I-295, do you keep saying you're on 295 North when the roadway is going south into PA, all the way down to the PA Turnpike?  Likewise, driving East on the PA Turnpike, do you have the option to take I-95 South towards Philly (truly traveling south), or I-295 South towards Langhorne (even though you are traveling North).  Or do you split the direction of the roadway, like it is now - I-295 North suddenly becomes I-295 South, and vice-versa.

I-195 at least mostly runs East-West (although it does veer the opposing way for a little bit).

Maybe the best option is just to renumber it something totally different.  895 would work.  Even a x76 would work, as the PA Turnpike is 276 at that point...and an x76 rarely if ever has been brought up as a valid option!  I believe 576, 776, 876 and 976 are all available...as ugly sounding as they are!

[Roadsguy]

576

Not if the PTC has anything to say about it.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.457136,-80.287914&spn=0.075888,0.169086&t=m&z=13

It's already signed PA Turnpike 576, and eventually will be an Interstate.

[NE2]

x76 wouldn't work because the initial interchange will have only the two ramps carrying I-95.

I see no problem with I-295. PennDOT can change the state route number of PA 295, and only exit numbers on current I-95 need to change. Directions can change to east-west between the Delaware and US 1 and stay north-south in Pennsylvania. Any confusion can be minimized by putting the name "Trenton Beltway" on approach signs (including the current I-295 north of I-195).

[route_82]

I'd be ok with I-295 as well, just have it go from N-S to S-N when it hits the PA border.  Anything is better than I-195. 

[Alps]

I spoke with an engineer today at work who is familiar with the Turnpike/I-95 project.

In our conversation, he explained to me that NJ & PA decided on I-195 because this new 'segment' runs more "east-west".

I checked, it runs north-south for 17 total miles and east-west for about 9 miles.  Last I checked, 17 was bigger than 9.

But he seemed to emphasize that it was a done deal.

FHWA & AASHTO have apparently approved it.

So looks like we'll just have to get used to it... and the new exit numbers.

I have no problem with it being signed east-west, only with it being signed as I-195.

[PHLBOS]

I spoke with an engineer today at work who is familiar with the Turnpike/I-95 project.

In our conversation, he explained to me that NJ & PA decided on I-195 because this new 'segment' runs more "east-west".

I checked, it runs north-south for 17 total miles and east-west for about 9 miles.  Last I checked, 17 was bigger than 9.

But he seemed to emphasize that it was a done deal.

FHWA & AASHTO have apparently approved it.

So looks like we'll just have to get used to it... and the new exit numbers.

I have no problem with it being signed east-west, only with it being signed as I-195.

Same here.  I still stand by my earlier alternative: designate I-95/295 between I-276 & I-195 as I-695.  PA section would be north-south and the NJ section would be east-west; problem solved.

[route_82]

I spoke with an engineer today at work who is familiar with the Turnpike/I-95 project.

In our conversation, he explained to me that NJ & PA decided on I-195 because this new 'segment' runs more "east-west".

I checked, it runs north-south for 17 total miles and east-west for about 9 miles.  Last I checked, 17 was bigger than 9.

But he seemed to emphasize that it was a done deal.

FHWA & AASHTO have apparently approved it.

So looks like we'll just have to get used to it... and the new exit numbers.

I have no problem with it being signed east-west, only with it being signed as I-195.

Same here.  I still stand by my earlier alternative: designate I-95/295 between I-276 & I-195 as I-695.  PA section would be north-south and the NJ section would be east-west; problem solved.

So I-295 would end at Exit 60?  And I-195, I-295, and I-695 would all end at the same interchange?

[Roadsguy]

And NJ 29/129.

[route_82]

And NJ 29/129.

Oy!  It's just safe to say that Princeton really screwed the state of NJ as far as infrastructure goes.  The Somerset Freeway would have been so helpful.

[Alps]

And NJ 29/129.

Oy!  It's just safe to say that Princeton really screwed the state of NJ as far as infrastructure goes.  The Somerset Freeway would have been so helpful.

It wasn't Princeton's fault, it was the even richer people to the northeast.

[jeffandnicole]

And NJ 29/129.

Oy!  It's just safe to say that Princeton really screwed the state of NJ as far as infrastructure goes.  The Somerset Freeway would have been so helpful.

Actually, it may have even further consequences.  We all know how bad driving I-95 thru the Philly region is now.  Imagine if traffic used I-95 thru NJ as originally planned.  Could you imagine all that traffic that now uses the NJ Turnpike (and to a lesser extent, I-295) using 3 lanes of I-95 thru Philly?  Or 2 lanes of I-95 where it meets I-476, or 3 lanes of I-95 where US 322 multiplexes with 95 for a 1/2 mile or so? 

[Beltway]

Actually, it may have even further consequences.  We all know how bad driving I-95 thru the Philly region is now.  Imagine if traffic used I-95 thru NJ as originally planned.  Could you imagine all that traffic that now uses the NJ Turnpike (and to a lesser extent, I-295) using 3 lanes of I-95 thru Philly?  Or 2 lanes of I-95 where it meets I-476, or 3 lanes of I-95 where US 322 multiplexes with 95 for a 1/2 mile or so? 

I-295 and the NJTP was planned to be the bypass of Wilmington, SE PA, and Trenton.  I doubt that the I-95 Somerset Freeway segment would have affected traffic in Philadelphia, other than providing Philadelphia a direct route to and from the rest of I-95 to the north.

[vdeane]

I just thought of this yesterday: in a way, the somerset freeway is being built... in the form of the Turnpike widening.

[Henry]

I'd be ok with I-295 as well, just have it go from N-S to S-N when it hits the PA border.  Anything is better than I-195. 

Or it could be E-W when it hits PA! Combining the best of both worlds, the E-W orientation of the route they want to extend, and the same number we roadgeeks would want instead.

[NJRoadfan]

And NJ 29/129.

Oy!  It's just safe to say that Princeton really screwed the state of NJ as far as infrastructure goes.  The Somerset Freeway would have been so helpful.

Actually, it may have even further consequences.  We all know how bad driving I-95 thru the Philly region is now.  Imagine if traffic used I-95 thru NJ as originally planned.  Could you imagine all that traffic that now uses the NJ Turnpike (and to a lesser extent, I-295) using 3 lanes of I-95 thru Philly?  Or 2 lanes of I-95 where it meets I-476, or 3 lanes of I-95 where US 322 multiplexes with 95 for a 1/2 mile or so? 

The bottleneck would be where the Somerset Freeway would merge into what today is I-287, along with the Turnpike Exit 10 interchange. I-287 would have needed to be widened considerably and a new high speed interchange with the Turnpike built. South of the proposed Somerset Freeway, you have I-295 as already noted. I-295 would have actually been somewhat busy from I-195 down to the Philly suburbs.