Peach Pass Now Works With SunPass

[DeaconG]

Was coming home from my new job in Orlando and taking the Beachline eastbound when I encountered a message on the first VMS announcing "Welcome GA Peach Pass, Use SunPass Express Lanes".

Here's the announcement from FDOT:

https://www.sunpass.com/pdf/FLGANCValid.pdf

Now can we get E-Pass on board?

[Brandon]

Now can they finally join E-Z Pass?

[Thing 342]

Now I'm even more confused. NC Quick Pass users can use SunPass lanes, as well as E-Z Pass Lanes, correct? Does this now mean that QuickPass users can use E-Z Pass, SunPass, and Peach Pass? Will seriously consider getting a QuickPass if so.

[bob7374]

Now I'm even more confused. NC Quick Pass users can use SunPass lanes, as well as E-Z Pass Lanes, correct? Does this now mean that QuickPass users can use E-Z Pass, SunPass, and Peach Pass? Will seriously consider getting a QuickPass if so.

NCDOT announced today they have made an agreement with GA so that Quick Pass users can use Peach Pass Lanes and vice versa. Details in this press release:
https://apps.ncdot.gov/newsreleases/details.aspx?r=10495

[mtantillo]

ME, NH, MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, VA, WV, OH, IN, and IL are E-ZPass states (with IL using the brand name I-Pass). FL uses three names (SunPass, E-Pass, and LeeWay), and all are completely interoperable. GA and NC use their own systems, NC QuickPass, and PeachPass. So in effect, there are 4 systems: E-ZPass, NC QuickPass, PeachPass, and SunPass.

E-ZPass can be used in the 14 E-ZPass states and NC, but not GA or FL.
SunPass can be used in FL, GA, and NC.
PeachPass can be used in GA, FL, and NC.
NC QuickPass sticker transponders can be used in NC, GA, and FL only.
NC QuickPass "hard case" transponders can be used in NC, GA, FL, and the 14 E-ZPass states.

NC, FL and GA use similar equipment, so interop was easy. E-ZPass is totally different. So they can't just "join E-ZPass" yet because the equipment is not compatible ... This is different than when MA, MD, VA, and IL joined E-ZPass because they used the same equipment as E-ZPass on purpose for future interoperability.

National interoperability (which will mean E-ZPass accounts can be used to pay tolls in FL and vice versa) will be here in 2016, per Congressional mandate in MAP-21. But fair warning...it will be heavily reliant on video tolling, which is heavily reliant on you keeping license plate information on your account up to date. In otherwords, your E-ZPass *account* will be accepted based on the license plate registered with it, your E-ZPass *transponder* won't necessarily be able to be read though.

[lordsutch]

Finally! When I was up in Gwinnett County a couple of weeks ago, I'd have gladly paid a few cents out of my SunPass account to hop on the I-85 express lane to avoid a traffic backup at Jimmy Carter & I-85.

Now the major question in my mind is whether TxTag will interoperate with SunPass before my TxTag sticker falls off my windshield.

[orulz]

Now I'm even more confused. NC Quick Pass users can use SunPass lanes, as well as E-Z Pass Lanes, correct? Does this now mean that QuickPass users can use E-Z Pass, SunPass, and Peach Pass? Will seriously consider getting a QuickPass if so.

I think that the NC Quick Pass hardcase transponder may be the only one that works in both sticker territory (GA/FL) and hardcase terriotry (EZPass).

[vdeane]

I'm curious as to whether NC QuickPass works on the Rainbow, Whirlpool, and Lewiston-Queenston bridges in Niagara Falls.  I'm pretty sure that the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission simply agreed to be interoperable with E-ZPass rather than actually join E-ZPass.

[Alex]

Definitely glad to see that Sunpass will work in three states now. Palmetto Pass should jump on board next.

Here's what the Sunpass web page has:

SunPass Welcomes Georgia Motorists!

Electronic tolling customers in Florida, Georgia and North Carolina can now easily use toll roads in all three states thanks to a new interoperability arrangement, officials with the Florida Department of Transportation announced today.

The electronic toll collection systems in Florida, Georgia and North Carolina toll agencies are now interoperable, meaning customers of one state can use toll facilities in the other two states and tolls are deducted electronically from their existing home state account. Click to view the Georgia Peach Pass announcement.

[1995hoo]

So for the time being, the safest thing to do if you're in North Carolina and going somewhere you may encounter a toll road is to bag the E-ZPass and leave the SunPass, or other sticker transponder, in place (assuming you attached the SunPass Mini with tape, as I did). That way you avoid the risk of being tolled twice.

The clarification "going somewhere you may encounter a toll road" is intended to denote the scenario of passing through the state and not going anywhere near the toll roads, as in that situation obviously it doesn't matter. It appears for someone with a SunPass and an E-ZPass the only place there's an issue (for now) is North Carolina, and even there it's a very small universe of roads where this would matter.

That raises an interesting question in my mind for Mike or anyone else who knows: How is it to work when interoperability takes effect and the same license plate is registered with two ETC programs? Suppose, for example, I drive on the Bee Line in Florida. The system would debit my SunPass, obviously. The license plate reader would presumably also capture my plate, which is registered on both my SunPass and E-ZPass accounts. Is the idea that the system will first query the "in-state" database(s) and will only query the "out-of-state" database(s) if the "in-state" one(s) does(do) not return a positive match?

In other words, in my scenario I have the mental image of the following:

(1) I go through the ORT lane and it reads my SunPass; a camera also reads my license plate.

(2) The license-plate reader queries the SunPass, E-Pass, and LeeWay databases and determines my SunPass account was already billed, so nothing else happens.

(3) Had I not had my SunPass in the car, it would bill my SunPass account upon reading my plate.

(4) If I were instead driving my RX-7, which is not registered on my SunPass account, after finding no match in the Florida databases it would query the out-of-state databases, find the car in my E-ZPass account, and bill that.

Is that about how it's supposed to work? I assume there has to be some system to ensure that someone who has multiple transponders won't get hit for multiple charges once plate-based interoperability is in effect. (Still doesn't necessarily solve the problem of a road that can read both transponders, such as the North Carolina example.)



BTW, I looked into QuickPass to eliminate the need for having both the SunPass and E-ZPass, but they require one transponder per car. We have three cars but don't need three transponders because we can only be driving a maximum of two of them at any one time (assuming, of course, the third one isn't at the mechanic or the like), and I didn't want to pay $20 per transponder for the hard case device that works at both E-ZPass and SunPass facilities!

[Pink Jazz]

I wonder if there are plans for AutoExpreso (Puerto Rico) and SunPass interoperability.  AutoExpreso uses passive transponders similar to SunPass Mini, and I believe they are made by the same vendor.  I don't think it would be that difficult to integrate them, and many Puerto Ricans live in Florida.

[Scott5114]

Are there that many cars going between FL and PR though? I would imagine the expense of shipping a car across the ocean would make it more economical to rent a car when you're visiting.

[mtantillo]

I'm curious as to whether NC QuickPass works on the Rainbow, Whirlpool, and Lewiston-Queenston bridges in Niagara Falls.  I'm pretty sure that the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission simply agreed to be interoperable with E-ZPass rather than actually join E-ZPass.

I believe it should work anywhere that E-ZPass is accepted. You are correct in that Niagara Falls Bridge Commission and NC are both "affiliate" members of the E-ZPass group, rather than full members. That basically just means that they accept other forms of payment and aren't bound by all of the rules and regulations (main one being that all toll equipment must be purchased through the E-ZPass group's huge procurement). North Carolina accepts all E-ZPass transponders as well as QuickPass transponders, and NFBC accepts E-ZPass and their own ExpressPass transponders (and Nexus Toll accounts linked to Nexus cards). NFBC does not issue their own transponders. They contract to NYSTA for their E-ZPass services, so if you pick up an "E-ZPass on the Go" at one of the NFBC Duty Free Shops, you'll get a Thruway transponder.

[Pink Jazz]

I'm curious as to whether NC QuickPass works on the Rainbow, Whirlpool, and Lewiston-Queenston bridges in Niagara Falls.  I'm pretty sure that the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission simply agreed to be interoperable with E-ZPass rather than actually join E-ZPass.

I believe it should work anywhere that E-ZPass is accepted. You are correct in that Niagara Falls Bridge Commission and NC are both "affiliate" members of the E-ZPass group, rather than full members. That basically just means that they accept other forms of payment and aren't bound by all of the rules and regulations (main one being that all toll equipment must be purchased through the E-ZPass group's huge procurement). North Carolina accepts all E-ZPass transponders as well as QuickPass transponders, and NFBC accepts E-ZPass and their own ExpressPass transponders (and Nexus Toll accounts linked to Nexus cards). NFBC does not issue their own transponders. They contract to NYSTA for their E-ZPass services, so if you pick up an "E-ZPass on the Go" at one of the NFBC Duty Free Shops, you'll get a Thruway transponder.

Note that to use NC Quick Pass in E-ZPass states, an active (hard case) transponder is required.  The less expensive passive (sticker) transponder will only work in NC, GA, and FL.  I presume the NFBC also requires the active transponders.

[mtantillo]

So for the time being, the safest thing to do if you're in North Carolina and going somewhere you may encounter a toll road is to bag the E-ZPass and leave the SunPass, or other sticker transponder, in place (assuming you attached the SunPass Mini with tape, as I did). That way you avoid the risk of being tolled twice.

The clarification "going somewhere you may encounter a toll road" is intended to denote the scenario of passing through the state and not going anywhere near the toll roads, as in that situation obviously it doesn't matter. It appears for someone with a SunPass and an E-ZPass the only place there's an issue (for now) is North Carolina, and even there it's a very small universe of roads where this would matter.

That raises an interesting question in my mind for Mike or anyone else who knows: How is it to work when interoperability takes effect and the same license plate is registered with two ETC programs? Suppose, for example, I drive on the Bee Line in Florida. The system would debit my SunPass, obviously. The license plate reader would presumably also capture my plate, which is registered on both my SunPass and E-ZPass accounts. Is the idea that the system will first query the "in-state" database(s) and will only query the "out-of-state" database(s) if the "in-state" one(s) does(do) not return a positive match?

In other words, in my scenario I have the mental image of the following:

(1) I go through the ORT lane and it reads my SunPass; a camera also reads my license plate.

(2) The license-plate reader queries the SunPass, E-Pass, and LeeWay databases and determines my SunPass account was already billed, so nothing else happens.

(3) Had I not had my SunPass in the car, it would bill my SunPass account upon reading my plate.

(4) If I were instead driving my RX-7, which is not registered on my SunPass account, after finding no match in the Florida databases it would query the out-of-state databases, find the car in my E-ZPass account, and bill that.

Is that about how it's supposed to work? I assume there has to be some system to ensure that someone who has multiple transponders won't get hit for multiple charges once plate-based interoperability is in effect. (Still doesn't necessarily solve the problem of a road that can read both transponders, such as the North Carolina example.)



BTW, I looked into QuickPass to eliminate the need for having both the SunPass and E-ZPass, but they require one transponder per car. We have three cars but don't need three transponders because we can only be driving a maximum of two of them at any one time (assuming, of course, the third one isn't at the mechanic or the like), and I didn't want to pay $20 per transponder for the hard case device that works at both E-ZPass and SunPass facilities!

That is the reason I don't have a QuickPass account. I'm amazed that the good 'ol boys in North Carolina manage to have the most universally accepted toll transponder in the nation (17 states!!!), but the problem is their terms of service are written based on non-movable sticker transponders. The hard-case transponder is a device that can be moved from vehicle to vehicle, but is not "portable" in their eyes. Since Florida's SunPass has great customer service, easy to use website dashboard, a mobile phone app, and an easy way to add a rental vehicle to the account (with begin and expiration times down to the minute that remain recorded in your account), I think I will keep that and E-ZPass. Just have to remember to not add too much money to the SunPass account since it will just be sitting there most of the year.

As for how the system works in a technical matter, I believe it is something like this:
1) Loop detector or radar detection senses a vehicle
2) Reader looks for a "home" transponder protocol, and reads any that it finds.
3) If none and the reader has a second channel, it will activate the second channel and look for a transponder of that type, and read any it finds.
4) Regardless of transponders read, it will snap license plate images front and back.
5) Sent to back office for processing
6) If a "home transponder" is read, it is charged and processing is complete. The license plate images are discarded.
7) If multiple transponders are read, the system will "pick one" to charge. First choice will be a home transponder. Second will be any valid "foreign" transponders, such as a SunPass in NC. Once it finds a valid one, it charges it, and license plate images are discarded.
8) If no transponder is detected, a non-valid transponder is detected (lets say, a TxTag in NC), or if a valid transponder does not process a payment (insufficient funds), the license plate images are sent for automatic processing.
9) If the home system has a record of that plate on an account, it will post to that account.
10) If the home system has no record, then it will check the records of interoperable accounts and send to them for processing if a match is discovered. Again, first match that is discovered is the one where payment goes.
11) If for some reason it doesn't post, or if no interoperable system has a record of that plate, they will check other databases, such as PlatePass or Rent-A-Toll rental car toll pass programs that don't use transponders.
12) Only after it goes through that step by step process will an invoice be generated.

So what are the takaways? If you have multiple transponders, most toll systems are smart enough to sort through to find the correct one associated with their system to charge. Every toll transponder has an "agency code" associated with it hard coded into the transponder...E-ZPass transponders it is the first 3 digits of the tag number. If you have multiple valid transponders, whichever one happens to process first will take the charge (in the case of interoperability, the "home" system will usually process first). If you have multiple valid transponders that operate on different protocols, the transponder most similar to the "home" system will likely be the one to process (in NC, if you have a SunPass and an E-ZPass, almost guaranteed the SunPass gets charged). Toll agencies won't start doing anything with images until they exhaust all possible transponder-based options. Then they would likely look at license plates on home system, then interoperable systems, then rental car programs, then send an invoice.

Most toll systems have software in place to prevent multiple charges. This was a problem in NC when TriEx first opened, people with a QuickPass and E-ZPass (before they went interoperable) were getting double charged. They put software in to prevent that. Virginia has software algorithms to prevent that as well, back from the days when people had both E-ZPass and SmartTag. I've run through a toll plaza on the Dulles Toll Road with multiple E-ZPasses attached (none from Virginia), but only one was charged. Other toll agencies do not have such software in place, and these are places where they don't have any interoperability with other systems and reasonably expect that 99.999% of drivers will not have multiple valid tags in the vehicle. I discovered this the hard way when I didn't have one of my extra E-ZPasses properly "bagged" and laying on the front seat in direct line of sight of the reader....New Gloucester in Maine and Essex in NJ both double charged me last month. Oops, I'll be more careful next time.

So while it is always a wise idea to avoid having multiple valid-for-payment transponders mounted at the same time, this would only be an issue in NC between E-ZPass and SunPass, and most people do not carry multiple E-ZPasses like me.

As for what processes how, I know that both E-ZPass transponders and Florida SunPass transponders can be physically read in NC (I've tried both). The older "legacy" SunPasses have to be video tolled in GA and NC, and I'm pretty sure that GA Peach Pass transponders are also being video tolled in Florida for now (until they retire all of the legacy SunPass transponders and can swap out their readers' second channel to read Georgia's tags).

[mtantillo]

I'm curious as to whether NC QuickPass works on the Rainbow, Whirlpool, and Lewiston-Queenston bridges in Niagara Falls.  I'm pretty sure that the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission simply agreed to be interoperable with E-ZPass rather than actually join E-ZPass.

I believe it should work anywhere that E-ZPass is accepted. You are correct in that Niagara Falls Bridge Commission and NC are both "affiliate" members of the E-ZPass group, rather than full members. That basically just means that they accept other forms of payment and aren't bound by all of the rules and regulations (main one being that all toll equipment must be purchased through the E-ZPass group's huge procurement). North Carolina accepts all E-ZPass transponders as well as QuickPass transponders, and NFBC accepts E-ZPass and their own ExpressPass transponders (and Nexus Toll accounts linked to Nexus cards). NFBC does not issue their own transponders. They contract to NYSTA for their E-ZPass services, so if you pick up an "E-ZPass on the Go" at one of the NFBC Duty Free Shops, you'll get a Thruway transponder.

Note that to use NC Quick Pass in E-ZPass states, an active (hard case) transponder is required.  The less expensive passive (sticker) transponder will only work in NC, GA, and FL.  I presume the NFBC also requires the active transponders.

What is interesting is that NFBC can read passive transponders, because their ExpressPass system and Nexus cards use the same technology as in Georgia and NC. However, I assume the system is programmed to only look for ExpressPass and Nexus cards on the first read, and then read the hard case active channel on the second read, and then if that doesn't work, require cash. In otherwords, theoretically they can read the tag, and theoretically it should work, but it probably won't since it would be processing outside the normal parameters of E-ZPass and would thus require a specific NFBC/NCDOT interoperability agreement.

[Thing 342]

Definitely glad to see that Sunpass will work in three states now. Palmetto Pass should jump on board next.

Here's what the Sunpass web page has:

SunPass Welcomes Georgia Motorists!

Electronic tolling customers in Florida, Georgia and North Carolina can now easily use toll roads in all three states thanks to a new interoperability arrangement, officials with the Florida Department of Transportation announced today.

The electronic toll collection systems in Florida, Georgia and North Carolina toll agencies are now interoperable, meaning customers of one state can use toll facilities in the other two states and tolls are deducted electronically from their existing home state account. Click to view the Georgia Peach Pass announcement.

IIRC, PalmettoPass is completely incompatible with E-Z/Sun/Quick-Pass

[NJRoadfan]

PalmettoPass uses Mark IV tags just like E-ZPass does. If they wanted to, it could be made compatible.

[mtantillo]

PalmettoPass uses Mark IV tags just like E-ZPass does. If they wanted to, it could be made compatible.

Not exactly. Cross Island Parkway uses Kapsch (formerly Mark IV) box transponders, but the Southern Connector uses stickers. For compatibility purposes, Southern Connector still reads the box transponders, but the Southern Connector stickers cannot be read on the Cross Island Parkway. So if you have a Southern Connector account and want to use the Cross Island Parkway (at least once per year), you have to special request a box transponder and pay extra for it.

So, sounds like SC needs to get interoperability ironed out within their own state first before worrying about interop with different states.

[realjd]

So for the time being, the safest thing to do if you're in North Carolina and going somewhere you may encounter a toll road is to bag the E-ZPass and leave the SunPass, or other sticker transponder, in place (assuming you attached the SunPass Mini with tape, as I did). That way you avoid the risk of being tolled twice.

The clarification "going somewhere you may encounter a toll road" is intended to denote the scenario of passing through the state and not going anywhere near the toll roads, as in that situation obviously it doesn't matter. It appears for someone with a SunPass and an E-ZPass the only place there's an issue (for now) is North Carolina, and even there it's a very small universe of roads where this would matter.

That raises an interesting question in my mind for Mike or anyone else who knows: How is it to work when interoperability takes effect and the same license plate is registered with two ETC programs? Suppose, for example, I drive on the Bee Line in Florida. The system would debit my SunPass, obviously. The license plate reader would presumably also capture my plate, which is registered on both my SunPass and E-ZPass accounts. Is the idea that the system will first query the "in-state" database(s) and will only query the "out-of-state" database(s) if the "in-state" one(s) does(do) not return a positive match?

In other words, in my scenario I have the mental image of the following:

(1) I go through the ORT lane and it reads my SunPass; a camera also reads my license plate.

(2) The license-plate reader queries the SunPass, E-Pass, and LeeWay databases and determines my SunPass account was already billed, so nothing else happens.

(3) Had I not had my SunPass in the car, it would bill my SunPass account upon reading my plate.

(4) If I were instead driving my RX-7, which is not registered on my SunPass account, after finding no match in the Florida databases it would query the out-of-state databases, find the car in my E-ZPass account, and bill that.

Is that about how it's supposed to work? I assume there has to be some system to ensure that someone who has multiple transponders won't get hit for multiple charges once plate-based interoperability is in effect. (Still doesn't necessarily solve the problem of a road that can read both transponders, such as the North Carolina example.)



BTW, I looked into QuickPass to eliminate the need for having both the SunPass and E-ZPass, but they require one transponder per car. We have three cars but don't need three transponders because we can only be driving a maximum of two of them at any one time (assuming, of course, the third one isn't at the mechanic or the like), and I didn't want to pay $20 per transponder for the hard case device that works at both E-ZPass and SunPass facilities!

They don't do a license plate look up at all if a transponder was read. Currently on the SunPass/E-Pass roads that aren't toll-by-plate, if a transponder isn't scanned, it reads your plate number and scans the SunPass database to see if it's tied to an account. If it is, it bills that account. Otherwise it mails a toll violation ticket to the registered owner. For the all-electronic portions of the state, it mails a bill instead of a ticket. Out of state plate databases will probably be checked after the SunPass database and before the ticket/bill is mailed. I really can't see how the process would let them bill multiple toll accounts accidentally.

[1995hoo]

I guess what I was wondering is whether there is some kind of delay in taking the photo until after it scans for a transponder. I assumed there would not be and that both things (transponder read and photo) would occur at the same time due to the minute amount of time involved when you go through an ORT lane at 70 mph or more. Hence the need for a way to winnow out the photos of vehicles that had already paid.

[realjd]

I guess what I was wondering is whether there is some kind of delay in taking the photo until after it scans for a transponder. I assumed there would not be and that both things (transponder read and photo) would occur at the same time due to the minute amount of time involved when you go through an ORT lane at 70 mph or more. Hence the need for a way to winnow out the photos of vehicles that had already paid.

My guess is that is takes the photo regardless so the timing is right but it doesnt forward if off for processing if a transponder was detected. It's not two independent systems.

[mtantillo]

I was on the TriEx in NC yesterday. I put my E-ZPass away and paid with my SunPass sticker.

The flashes went off at every gantry I passed. Apparently FDOT and NCDOT exchange data much more frequently than the once a day that E-ZPass does, since my southbound trips posted at 9:30 PM the same day and the northbound charges at 11:30PM. The charges were billed by transponder and not by image, so they likely discarded the images as soon as payment was received from Florida.

Note that NCDOT has not yet updated their signs to show the PeachPass logo along with SunPass, E-ZPass, QuickPass, and Bill-by-Mail.

[MrDisco99]

So which is the better deal for someone who drives around GA and FL a lot?

The SunPass sticker is essentially free up front with no recurring fees.  That seems pretty hard to beat.

What about GA and NC?

[mtantillo]

FL hands down is the best deal. They have really good customer service and have portable transponders that can be moved from car to car. They will allow you to add rental vehicles via the phone app even without a transponder. GA and NC are much stricter with their "one vehicle per transponder" policies. Their websites and customer service isn't as good, and they only give stickers or boxes that cannot removed from vehicle to vehicle.

I really like Florida's ability to add rental cars to your account. You specify what time you want it to start and what time it will end so they will process rental tolls to your account but only tolls incurred during the speciified time periods.