Rent or own - as in your primary living quarters?

[Stratuscaster]

I've been renting since I moved out of my parent's home 30 years ago.

We've talked about buying a place, but I'm not committed to doing that just yet. Something to be said for not having to deal with lawn and snow maintenance, and as my kids point out "we wouldn't know what to do with a yard if we did have one."

The prospect of paying for a home until I'm 80 seems "wrong" to me. That said, if an opportunity to buy comes along and fits in a 15-year mortgage, maybe.

I do carry renters' insurance. For one, it's required by the HOA of where I am renting. For another, the subdivision flooded a couple of years back and I ended up with 3 feet of water in my basement, where my kids live. Stuff happens. It's pretty affordable - under $200 annually - so it's not a huge burden.

[Laura]

My husband and I are currently renting an apartment. Our current apartment is in a complex in the suburbs; the apartment we will be moving into within the next month will be the third floor of an older rowhome in the city.

Personally, I prefer living in apartments within homes because they have the "feel" of living in a house even if I'm only occupying part of it.

I really want to own a small house with (ideally) about a quarter acre of land in an older streetcar-era suburb. I want to be able to experience the best of both worlds - living close enough to walkable amenities but also having a bit of land where I can garden a serious amount of crops and enough for a small dog to run around.

As for home ownership, it doesn't make sense for us to own a home yet because we still have our degrees to finish and we won't know where we will end up afterwards. I would hate to buy a house in Baltimore City and then get a job as a planner in Carroll County or something.

Being a roadgeek plays into my decision for wanting to own a smaller house because I'd rather use money to travel than to pay off a mortgage. The amount of travelling can be adjusted much easier when dealing with life's circumstances - for instance, if someone gets sick or loses a job, then we can forego travelling. However, if someone gets sick or loses a job and their income was essential for paying off a mortgage, then the house needs to be sold. Hopefully it would be a good real estate market at that point; otherwise, we would be screwed.

ETA: I should clarify that my husband grew up in a ~900 sq ft home and I grew up in a ~2000 sq ft home. I would like to live somewhere in that range with a family (larger if we have a larger family, smaller if it stays just us or us with 1 or 2 kids).

Obviously, I wouldn't spend all of the difference in home size on travelling. I would use some of it to travel and invest the rest, just not necessarily in real estate.

[Truvelo]

I own as it works out cheaper for me than renting. I bought my last house in 2002 and sold it last summer for £64k more than what I paid for it 12 years earlier. Had I been renting I wouldn't have seen a penny from the old house.

Someone mentioned a few posts back about the volatile nature of property values but anyone buying now will be far better off than someone who bought in 2007 shortly before prices plummeted. As interest rates are low right now, in the UK at least, there's little point in sticking money into a savings account when it will be earning such a tiny amount of interest. I'm spending the vast majority of my money in refurbishing and extending the new house knowing that if I ever move again in the future the money spent will have increased its value.

Regarding mortgages it's normal practice over here to be denied a mortgage if the term goes beyond retirement age. I would be very surprised if someone was able to get a mortgage which finishes when they are 80.

[hm insulators]

Rent an apartment.

[Roadrunner75]

Own.  Or more accurately the bank owns for the next 13 years or so.  I rented for years and now wish I bought before prices in this area skyrocketed.  Still the best move now, since when the mortgage is done I have something to show for it.

[SSOWorld]

Well I have been and will be renting for a while.  At least until I get a half-way decent down payment + enough money for break-in expenses (as most of the time a newly bought house will require fixes - including appliances you may not have).  The timeline for that would be at least 2 years on my rate - because I had to fund my mom's surgery (no $ and on medicare).  I'm pretty much settling and the cabin fever is beginning to go away (though I would like to live in California again, I can't afford it - even on my current salary)

Another sucky part of renting is fire alarms going off in the night.

[Laura]

Someone mentioned a few posts back about the volatile nature of property values but anyone buying now will be far better off than someone who bought in 2007 shortly before prices plummeted. As interest rates are low right now, in the UK at least, there's little point in sticking money into a savings account when it will be earning such a tiny amount of interest. I'm spending the vast majority of my money in refurbishing and extending the new house knowing that if I ever move again in the future the money spent will have increased its value.

Lol, I'm a millennial, I don't have to worry about whether or not my savings account is making any money. Any extra money beyond our emergency fund and 401K (and what we've set aside for our  shoestring-budget road trips) is going towards paying off student loans and other debt. This is the other reason why buying a house right now isn't realistic - we need to get our debt either paid off or seriously paid down first.

It super sucks because this is the time to buy, but our circumstances make that a risky venture if not impossible.

Coming of age when the housing bubble burst also curbed my enthusiasm for buying a house. Basically, I saw two major groups of people close to me get affected negatively by it: my older brother's peers getting stuck with underwater mortgages on "starter" homes and gen xers and later baby boomers having to foreclose on their houses when they lost jobs in the recession.

For instance, my brother, who is five years older than me, bought his "starter" house in 2007, and now is having trouble selling it because it isn't worth the price of his mortgage. It's likely that he's going to end up renting it out, which he doesn't really want to do, or he is going to have to take money from his 401K to pay "the difference" (I don't know the real estate terminology, but basically where you have to pay if you sell your house for less than the mortgage). This turned me off from the idea of buying a "starter" home because the economy could change that quickly where putting money into a house "for a few years" turns into a liability and zero gain or money losing venture. (He has had to put a lot of money into the house before attempting to sell it to "justify" the 2007 era price tag.)

The other group of people that I saw get affected were the ones who had to foreclose. They bought the absolute biggest houses that two incomes could buy and then got screwed during the recession when one partner lost a job. Hello, bankruptcy; goodbye, credit. I saw this happen to parents of my friends, and it's pretty devastating. It made me consider that this situation doesn't need an economic recession to happen - if one partner gets sick or their company gets bought out and their job eliminated or something, it could make covering a large mortgage difficult.

I want to be able to live within my means and not throw all of my investment eggs into the housing basket. The bigger the house, the more unneeded stuff that just ends up filling it. Also, I ideally want to buy our house with the concept of "forever" in mind so that if something happens and we can't move that we will still be very happy there.

[Pete from Boston]

"Forever" house makes me think of various folks I know with a fully wheelchair-accessible first floor with bed/bath so they can stay there regardless of potential changes in their mobility. 

[xcellntbuy]

Own a home in one State (inherited) and rent a home in another State (work).  The two homes are 1000 miles apart.

[Jardine]

I own, but tell all the bathroom remodelers, kitchen remodelers, aluminum siding, home security, and replacement window telemarketers that I rent.

They hang up immediately.

[riiga]

I rent a 30 m² student apartment about halfway between the city center and the campus (~1 mile to downtown, ~1½ mile to campus). The apartment is very modern, only 10 years old, and my only real complaint would be the lack of a dishwasher. I find the rent quite reasonable at ~$517/month, which includes water, heating, electricty, insurance, and a 100/10 Mbit fiber connection.

When I'm done studying I'm looking at buying a house though, or at least save up for one while continuing to rent for a few years. While I like it here near the city, I'd prefer to move to a nice and quiet suburb later on. Compared to major US cities, the suburbs here are often small and only a few miles from downtown with no real sprawl to speak of.

[xcellntbuy]

I own, but tell all the bathroom remodelers, kitchen remodelers, aluminum siding, home security, and replacement window telemarketers that I rent.

They hang up immediately.

I like that!

[roadman65]

There is one person on here who has not yet posted on his own living arrangements.  One on here who corrects everybody on almost everything and yes he loves to show how smart he is and just how stupid certain others are.

As far as me I rent a room from my folks. However, now that my dad passed away I am now a nanny to my mother who is elderly.

[SSOWorld]

There is one person on here who has not yet posted on his own living arrangements.  One on here who corrects everybody on almost everything and yes he loves to show how smart he is and just how stupid certain others are.

Read the thread before judging please...

[J N Winkler]

"Forever" house makes me think of various folks I know with a fully wheelchair-accessible first floor with bed/bath so they can stay there regardless of potential changes in their mobility.

A more typical scenario is a house owned for decades and updated to meet specific requirements arising from a medical condition one of the occupants develops.  For example, my parents' house now has grab bars in the full bath, outside the front door, and next to one toilet because these were all things my mother needed after she contracted sepsis in 2010 and spent three months in a full-service hospital and another month in a rehabilitation hospital.  Similarly, when my grandmother got very close to the end and started to lose muscle mass, the toilet in her main bathroom was replaced with one that was somewhat higher off the floor.  One of the first and most embarrassing signs of declining muscular strength is an inability to get off the toilet.

Part of the procedure for releasing a patient from rehabilitation services is an interview to establish what facilities his or her residence has to allow continued improvement in muscle function.  My father went through this in 2010 when my mother was about to be released from her hospitalization, and when she went into the hospital again late last year, he was interviewed again to establish that the equipment installed in early 2011 was still sufficient.

There is one person on here who has not yet posted on his own living arrangements.  One on here who corrects everybody on almost everything and yes he loves to show how smart he is and just how stupid certain others are.

As far as me I rent a room from my folks. However, now that my dad passed away I am now a nanny to my mother who is elderly.

I certainly wouldn't expect this thread to attract responses to the OP's question from people who are uncomfortable talking about their personal circumstances (income relative to housing costs, whether employed or not, etc.), or don't mind discussing these among friends but don't want the information out on a Web forum anyone can read.

[vdeane]

I've never understood why people think of homes as investments.  Absent factors such as gentrification or remodeling, the only time in history home prices have risen faster than inflation was during the housing bubble.

I rent a 30 m² student apartment about halfway between the city center and the campus (~1 mile to downtown, ~1½ mile to campus). The apartment is very modern, only 10 years old, and my only real complaint would be the lack of a dishwasher. I find the rent quite reasonable at ~$517/month, which includes water, heating, electricty, insurance, and a 100/10 Mbit fiber connection.

Wow... around here, an apartment that was that new would probably rent for in excess of $1500/month and the only thing included would likely be water.  Sometimes heat.  Internet SOMETIMES on luxury units, but never at those speeds.  I've only seen electricity once - during my internship.  Insurance is never included.

My apartment is $905/month and includes water and heat.  My electricity is usually around $90/month but can go as high as $150/month during air conditioning season (yes, upstate NY has one).  Internet is $56/month (will be over $85/month when my two year discount expires) for 50 Mbit fiber (both up and down).  Renter's insurance is $125/year.

My previous apartment was $690/month (in Rome, NY) and included only water.  Electricity (which included heat, since the unit had electric heating) could range from $80/month to over $200/month.  Internet was $75/month for a 30 Mbit cable connection.

Both units had a dishwasher though.

[kkt]

I've never understood why people think of homes as investments.  Absent factors such as gentrification or remodeling, the only time in history home prices have risen faster than inflation was during the housing bubble.

I don't think that's true.  My parents bought a duplex in Berkeley for $40k back in 1974.  That would be $190k in today's dollars.  It's worth about $1M now.  That's a lot faster than inflation, and even the 2008 recession only paused the increase for a couple of years.  I could tell you about my grandparent's house in Lafayette, CA, but I don't have the figures to hand and they'd barely seem believable.  It's all about location and what kind of jobs there are in the area.

[J N Winkler]

Home prices go sky-high in areas that have a lot of inward migration, while they go through the floor in other places that are deindustrializing and losing population (e.g., Detroit)--the annualized increase in property values over the country as a whole, considered in aggregate, is probably close to inflation.  The problem is that the mantra of "location, location, location" overrides.

[Pete from Boston]

"Forever" house makes me think of various folks I know with a fully wheelchair-accessible first floor with bed/bath so they can stay there regardless of potential changes in their mobility.

A more typical scenario is a house owned for decades and updated to meet specific requirements arising from a medical condition one of the occupants develops.  For example, my parents' house now has grab bars in the full bath, outside the front door, and next to one toilet because these were all things my mother needed after she contracted sepsis in 2010 and spent three months in a full-service hospital and another month in a rehabilitation hospital.  Similarly, when my grandmother got very close to the end and started to lose muscle mass, the toilet in her main bathroom was replaced with one that was somewhat higher off the floor.  One of the first and most embarrassing signs of declining muscular strength is an inability to get off the toilet.

It is more typical, but often impractical to impossible to conduct months of renovations once someone already needs them.  A toilet takes an hour to replace, a bathroom 6-8 weeks typically.  There's a big "keep-in-home" movement for the elderly, who often thrive more at home than in a facility, but our houses have not all been built with this in mind.  You can pretty much write off any kind of split-level, of which there are surely millions.

I wish taller toilets were more popular in general.  I guess for kids they're tough, but I think they're great. 

I've never understood why people think of homes as investments.  Absent factors such as gentrification or remodeling, the only time in history home prices have risen faster than inflation was during the housing bubble.

Easy.  Buying retains equity, rent is a hole in the ground. 

"Absent factors such as [choosing and nurturing it well]," (what you described), no investment is likely to do well.

[johndoe]

This conversation reminds me of two stories I recently read online.  Enjoy

http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinchirico/surprisingly-gorgeous-homes-made-from-shipping-containers?s=mobile
http://michaelbluejay.com/house/chooselocation.html

[bandit957]

Home prices go sky-high in areas that have a lot of inward migration, while they go through the floor in other places that are deindustrializing and losing population (e.g., Detroit)--the annualized increase in property values over the country as a whole, considered in aggregate, is probably close to inflation.

Then why was it so expensive in Cincinnati in the 1990s?

[J N Winkler]

It is more typical, but often impractical to impossible to conduct months of renovations once someone already needs them.  A toilet takes an hour to replace, a bathroom 6-8 weeks typically.  There's a big "keep-in-home" movement for the elderly, who often thrive more at home than in a facility, but our houses have not all been built with this in mind.  You can pretty much write off any kind of split-level, of which there are surely millions.

It certainly depends on what you have to work with in terms of broad architectural style of the house.  In my parents' case (ranch-style house built in 1979 with living areas on one level and an unfinished basement that is used for offices and storage), the necessary conversions--installation of grab-bars, removal of a sliding privacy screen over the full bath so that a shower curtain could be installed for easy in/out and showering while sitting on a bath chair--took less than three days.  It was largely a matter of drilling some things in and drilling some other things out, plugging holes, cleaning off old grout and glue, and so on.

My parents also opted to have one of their bathrooms completely renovated in 2012, by removing a prefabricated fiberglass shower and replacing it with a much larger tiled-in-place shower with enough room to keep shower spray from splashing onto the door (which adds greatly to the work of cleaning) and for someone to sit on a bath chair.  The necessary work, which included replacement of a half-height tile surround throughout the entire bathroom, removal and replacement of the washbasin surround, installation of new plumbing fixtures, stripping wallpaper and repainting the bare walls, etc. took less than a month, though the planning was fairly time-consuming.

I certainly wouldn't pretend that a frail elderly person has it easy in a stereotypical New England triple-decker, or that it is simple to obtain quality work in a short construction period in an area where skilled labor is costly.  But even people in split-level houses have some flexibility to accommodate diminished range of movement by getting as much of what they need as possible on a single level.

[Laura]

It is more typical, but often impractical to impossible to conduct months of renovations once someone already needs them.  A toilet takes an hour to replace, a bathroom 6-8 weeks typically.  There's a big "keep-in-home" movement for the elderly, who often thrive more at home than in a facility, but our houses have not all been built with this in mind.  You can pretty much write off any kind of split-level, of which there are surely millions.

It certainly depends on what you have to work with in terms of broad architectural style of the house.  In my parents' case (ranch-style house built in 1979 with living areas on one level and an unfinished basement that is used for offices and storage), the necessary conversions--installation of grab-bars, removal of a sliding privacy screen over the full bath so that a shower curtain could be installed for easy in/out and showering while sitting on a bath chair--took less than three days.  It was largely a matter of drilling some things in and drilling some other things out, plugging holes, cleaning off old grout and glue, and so on.

My parents also opted to have one of their bathrooms completely renovated in 2012, by removing a prefabricated fiberglass shower and replacing it with a much larger tiled-in-place shower with enough room to keep shower spray from splashing onto the door (which adds greatly to the work of cleaning) and for someone to sit on a bath chair.  The necessary work, which included replacement of a half-height tile surround throughout the entire bathroom, removal and replacement of the washbasin surround, installation of new plumbing fixtures, stripping wallpaper and repainting the bare walls, etc. took less than a month, though the planning was fairly time-consuming.

I certainly wouldn't pretend that a frail elderly person has it easy in a stereotypical New England triple-decker, or that it is simple to obtain quality work in a short construction period in an area where skilled labor is costly.  But even people in split-level houses have some flexibility to accommodate diminished range of movement by getting as much of what they need as possible on a single level.

Yep. In most 2+ storey houses, most of the "essentials" are on the first floor. The upper floors have extra bedrooms and the lower floors storage and extra rooms for entertaining. With a little bit of help and modifications, an elderly person can live on the first floor easily.

When my grandfather was ill, they converted a room on the first floor into a bedroom for him (the den). The shower was modified to have a bench for him, and a higher toilet installed. If anything was needed in the basement (which had storage and laundry), my grandmother or cousin would get it for him. It surprisingly wasn't difficult. 


iPhone

[Duke87]

I do carry renters' insurance. For one, it's required by the HOA of where I am renting.

Eugh. One more reason to hate HOAs. That is another rule I have - I will never live in a place that has one, whether renting or buying.

[hbelkins]

My apartment is $905/month and includes water and heat.

Holy hell!