Jog in the Kentucky-Tennessee border

[national highway 1]

I was browsing Google Maps today and I noticed that at Kentucky Lake there is a large jog in the Kentucky-Tennessee border where the border follows the middle of the lake south for about 10 miles and then continues west. Without this noticeable jog in the border, we would avoid the border anomalies at the Kentucky Bend on the Mississippi River.
Does anyone know why the border has a jog in it?
https://goo.gl/RDrcm2

[SteveG1988]

Man made lake.

[dirtroad66]

This explains why the jog.
TNGenWeb North and South Boundaries of Tennessee
www.tngenweb.org/tnland/walker.htm

[usends]

Man made lake.

Those dams were built in the mid-20th century.

[pianocello]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

[empirestate]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

To what extent were these surveys actually "bad", even by the standards of the day, versus just being the best that could be expected given the limited technology of the age in which they were performed?


iPhone

[Brandon]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

Then there's the Ohio-Michigan border.  That one was deliberately surveyed so as to place Toledo in Ohio.  Ohio lied, cheated, and got rewarded with Toledo.  Michigan eventually came out ahead with the central and western Upper Peninsula.

[SteveG1988]

This is kinda off topic but is on topic, due to odd borders.

Wouldn't be cool if someone set their story in an alternative universe and used this odd little knowledge to say it is. instead of it being Erie PA, it would be Erie NY, Toledo Michigan, etc.

[vdeane]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

Then there's the Ohio-Michigan border.  That one was deliberately surveyed so as to place Toledo in Ohio.  Ohio lied, cheated, and got rewarded with Toledo.  Michigan eventually came out ahead with the central and western Upper Peninsula.

I went and read the Wikipedia article on the Toledo War... given the initial southern boundary of Michigan, how did Indiana get land on the shore of Lake Michigan?  It cuts into the ordinance line twice as far as Ohio did, and apparently wasn't controversial with Michigan.

[Brandon]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

Then there's the Ohio-Michigan border.  That one was deliberately surveyed so as to place Toledo in Ohio.  Ohio lied, cheated, and got rewarded with Toledo.  Michigan eventually came out ahead with the central and western Upper Peninsula.

I went and read the Wikipedia article on the Toledo War... given the initial southern boundary of Michigan, how did Indiana get land on the shore of Lake Michigan?  It cuts into the ordinance line twice as far as Ohio did, and apparently wasn't controversial with Michigan.

It was granted by Congress in order to give Indiana part of the lakeshore.  It was done when the Indiana territory was created.  The Toledo one was done after Ohio became a state and supposed to have its boundaries settled.  Michigan was preparing to become a state at the time, and Toledo would've made sure Michigan was well over the 60,000 minimum population.  Ohio made sure the survey skewed north so that they (who already had lakeshore property) would control the mouth of the Maumee River.  The Indiana one was done with normal territorial boundary changes.  The Ohio one was done with the intent to cheat a then-territory out of land that was rightfully its.  That's why it was controversial.

It's why two of the biggest battles in Big Ten football are MSU-OSU and UM-OSU, and the only good thing in Ohio is Cedar Point.
Fuck Ohio

[noelbotevera]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

Then there's the Ohio-Michigan border.  That one was deliberately surveyed so as to place Toledo in Ohio.  Ohio lied, cheated, and got rewarded with Toledo.  Michigan eventually came out ahead with the central and western Upper Peninsula.

I went and read the Wikipedia article on the Toledo War... given the initial southern boundary of Michigan, how did Indiana get land on the shore of Lake Michigan?  It cuts into the ordinance line twice as far as Ohio did, and apparently wasn't controversial with Michigan.

It was granted by Congress in order to give Indiana part of the lakeshore.  It was done when the Indiana territory was created.  The Toledo one was done after Ohio became a state and supposed to have its boundaries settled.  Michigan was preparing to become a state at the time, and Toledo would've made sure Michigan was well over the 60,000 minimum population.  Ohio made sure the survey skewed north so that they (who already had lakeshore property) would control the mouth of the Maumee River.  The Indiana one was done with normal territorial boundary changes.  The Ohio one was done with the intent to cheat a then-territory out of land that was rightfully its.  That's why it was controversial.

It's why two of the biggest battles in Big Ten football are MSU-OSU and UM-OSU, and the only good thing in Ohio is Cedar Point.
Fuck Ohio

Ohio actually cheated again with the state admission. I forget what it originally was, then Ohio sneaked in and skewed the info to make it March 1, 1803. Same happened with Mount McKinley.

Also, Kings Island anyone?

[TheHighwayMan3561]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

Then there's the Ohio-Michigan border.  That one was deliberately surveyed so as to place Toledo in Ohio.  Ohio lied, cheated, and got rewarded with Toledo.  Michigan eventually came out ahead with the central and western Upper Peninsula.

I went and read the Wikipedia article on the Toledo War... given the initial southern boundary of Michigan, how did Indiana get land on the shore of Lake Michigan?  It cuts into the ordinance line twice as far as Ohio did, and apparently wasn't controversial with Michigan.

I think this was how Michigan City ended up in Indiana, which was something that confused me for years.

[usends]

I think this was how Michigan City ended up in Indiana, which was something that confused me for years.

I think the city was named for the lake, not the state.

[Duke87]

This explains why the jog.
TNGenWeb North and South Boundaries of Tennessee
www.tngenweb.org/tnland/walker.htm

There are other less obvious jogs in the border east of there. Legend has it that people living near the line bribed the surveyors with moonshine to put their property in the state they preferred to be in. Legend mind you. Could easily just be more imprecise early 19th century surveying.

The Kentucky Bend is an oddity though. When people discovered that the proposed line crossed the Mississippi three times, it would have been trivial to terminate it at the first crossing and let that blob of land belong to Tennessee as would be geographically logical. But nope, instead Kentucky gets an exclave.

Now, as for all the places where the border doesn't follow the river... that I can understand. Rivers naturally move. Borders don't automatically move with them when they do.

[wphiii]

It's why two of the biggest battles in Big Ten football are MSU-OSU and UM-OSU, and the only good thing in Ohio is Cedar Point.

That's a very loose definition of "good thing."

[vdeane]

This explains why the jog.
TNGenWeb North and South Boundaries of Tennessee
www.tngenweb.org/tnland/walker.htm

There are other less obvious jogs in the border east of there. Legend has it that people living near the line bribed the surveyors with moonshine to put their property in the state they preferred to be in. Legend mind you. Could easily just be more imprecise early 19th century surveying.

I believe that's why Missouri has that little hook on the southeast corner.

[KEVIN_224]

Connecticut has the notch on its northern border, thanks to Southwick, MA. OK...back to Tennessee and Kentucky now.

[SignGeek101]

A lot of straight-line borders that aren't actually straight can be blamed on bad surveying. Another example is the Missouri-Iowa border that veers to the north the farther east you go.

To what extent were these surveys actually "bad", even by the standards of the day, versus just being the best that could be expected given the limited technology of the age in which they were performed?

About 50 sec into the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMkYlIA7mgw