Gas Leak

[vdeane]

Looks like my car has a pretty bad gas leak.  I first noticed that it looked like something was leaking back in mid-February but in the absence of other symptoms I didn't think it was anything other than one of those random issues that come up when you drive a 16 year old car.  When we put my car in the garage last Tuesday so we wouldn't need to clean it before my job interview, we noticed the smell of gas near the gas tank.  When the car was taken in for inspection/take snow tires off/maintenance the next day, we had our mechanic take a look at the area.  He replaced a gas line to "fix" the problem and also a gasket to fix and oil leak we hadn't detected yet.  When we got the car back, I had trouble filling the tank (the gas pump kept shutting off prematurely; I had to abort attempting to fill the tank and fill up at another station, which mysteriously worked fine), and the next day when I went to the Monticello road meet, it took an extra half tank of gas than I anticipated round trip.  It also took a little more gas than usual to return to Clarkson on Sunday.  For this we chalked it up to the new fuel line causing my gas gauge working better as a result (it likes to stay at "full" for a long time, gradually drops to 3/4, drops like a rock to 1/4, even more gradually drops to "empty", then stays there a while before the E light comes on).  However, the smell of gas got worse after the repairs, and while I left the car in the parking lot Sunday evening with a little under 1/2 tank, when I started my car today the gas gauge dropped like a rock to just above empty and stayed there.  The smell of gas is present by the gas tank after even a short trip but dissipates within a couple of minutes.  It seems like not only has my gas leak not been fixed, but that it's gotten worse.

Advice?  I'm not really sure what to do.  I don't know any mechanics in the area, and have no way to get to one since I don't have any friends around who can pick me up from the mechanic and drop me off when the car is done.  Additionally, I have to drive to Watertown on Wednesday and had hoped to fill up there, but now I'm looking at having to fill up the tank every week with uber-expensive north country gas.  I also have no idea how I'm going to pay for this.  I have no income of any kind until I get my first paycheck from the job I start on June 4, and I've already been worried about the expense of moving to Rome (rent, utilities, security deposit, gas, food, etc.).  Looks like I won't be able to attend any road meets for several months, or have any non-essential spending for that matter.

Also, as it is a 16 year old car, it's starting to die on me.  I had hoped it would last a few more years until I get my student loans paid off, but it clearly won't last that long with the amount of repairs that we've had to do in the past year.  How am I supposed to afford a new car?  I won't consider used under any circumstances (I'm a perfectionist and don't like the unknown history that comes with a used car, plus I don't like buying used items in general).

[Takumi]

You have a 1997 Accord, right? I would look on an Accord forum to see if there are others who have had the same problem with your generation of Accord, and how they remedied it.

[Brian556]

I'm wondering if you have two seperate problems, one being a defective fuel level sensor, the other being a leak.

Are you seeing any evidence of leaking fuel on the ground after the car has been parked a while? Since it can evaporate quickly, you should place cardboard on the ground under the car. It will catch leaking fuel, leaving stains on the cardboard. This will help you to see just how much is leaking.

If you are really losing half a tank in one night like you are saying, it should be quite obvious on the ground.
If this method reveals little to no gas leaking, I'm thinking the primary problem will be the fuel level sensor giving false readings.

It only takes a very minor leak to cause a smell. Typically if it leaks onto a surface that gets hot, it will burn off after you drive a littel and stop smelling, like you describe.

Hope this helps.

[vdeane]

Quite possible.  Normally when driving from Rochester to Potsdam, I get progressively worse gas mileage as I move from the Thruway to I-81 to US 11, with my hour and 10-15 minute drive up US 11 taking a full quarter of a tank.  However, this time I lost half a tank on the way to Watertown, with the gas gauge hardly moving after I got on US 11.  Is it possible it got stuck?  Using nearly a full tank of gas to get to Potsdam would be in line with the worse gas mileage I have been seeing.

I lost the nearly half tank over roughly a week, not one day.  Before my trip to WalMart and First Niagara today, the last time I had driven the car was my trip back to Potsdam on Sunday 3/24.  I try to avoid going out during the week if I can (there are more cars on campus than parking spaces).  I did notice some spots on the ground at First Niagara when I pulled in that looked like a fluid leak.

[Mr_Northside]

My '99 Accord has been leaking a little gas for a while now.  My brother is supposed to fix it sometime soon, but getting schedules coordinated has been difficult.  It hasn't been a major issue, though my gas mileage is suffering.

Though I think it had something to do with an incident a few weeks ago where the car just shut off while I was on the highway.  I was able to drift to the shoulder and get it started again, and it hasn't happened since.  But I'd like to get this leak fixed soon.

[AsphaltPlanet]

Is your check engine light on?  Your car should have an EVAP monitor that senses if the fuel system is operating as a vacuum or not.  If you're check engine light isn't on, it's likely a problem with your fuel gauge and not a fuel leak.

[vdeane]

I also forgot to mention, my gas gauge is old enough that it doesn't reset to empty when the car is off; it just stays at whatever position it was in at the time, so if gas is lost before the car is started again, it drops upon starting.  It also takes two minutes to climb to full after re-fueling.

I'm tempted to put in about $10 of gas to see if anything continues to leak out while not driving.  I can't think of any other way to tell if the gauge has actually gone bad.  This is really complicating my trip to Watertown.  I'll be rushing down, so I really don't want to stop on the way if I don't have to, nor do I want to make other trips during the week (but it looks like I don't have a choice guess I'd better get used to parking in overflow).

I don't recall seeing the check engine light, not that all of the lights on the dash are very visible in daylight (the E light doesn't even stay on consistently and is barely visible when on).

[vdeane]

Update: there is definitely a puddle under the car, and I lost a bit more between yesterday and today.  I estimate I lose a little over a gallon a day.

Sigh... I'm gonna have to spend money I don't have to keep this car running.  I'm thinking it's time for a replacement.

[NJRoadfan]

If the car has nylon lines, its pretty easy to replace the whole run from the tank to the engine bay. Autozone, Pep Boys, etc. have fuel line repair kits. Metal lines are a PITA, to do the same, although I would be surprised if a car that new has them. Make sure the mechanic used the right clamps for the repair if he patched in a new line. He should have used fuel injection rated hose clamps doubled up on each end.

[Brandon]

Check under the car to see where the puddle is.  That will help the mechanic when you get the lines or tank repaired.  I say tank because our 1981 Dodge Aries picked up a screwdriver somehow that punctured the gas tank (only a year or so after we bought it, like 1982 or 83).

I don't know why you say your car is too old to have a gas gauge that doesn't reset to E when the car is off.  All of our pre-1997, post-1980 vehicles reset when the car was off (the aforementioned Aries, a 1993 Dodge Spirit, and a 1996 Dodge Grand Caravan).  Maybe it's a Honda thing?

[vdeane]

The puddle's practically in the center of the car.  The gas gauge must be a honda thing, because my parents didn't consider it abnormal (though Mom favors hondas in her car purchases, as will I).  No idea if the fuel lines are nylon or metal, though I've had many other lines rust out, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're metal.

Of course, not knowing anything about car maintenance/repair, I'm pretty much dependant on mechanics doing the right thing.  The only thing I can do on my own is add more windshield washer fluid (and right now I can't even do that because the hood latch is rusted out and won't close consistently).

[Takumi]

It is a Honda thing. My 91 does the same thing. (My 93 has a digital gauge that disappears when the car is off.)

[roadman]

It is a Honda thing. My 91 does the same thing. (My 93 has a digital gauge that disappears when the car is off.)

Second that.  The fuel gauges in both my '88 Prelude and my sister's '84 Civic did the same thing.

[kkt]

My 98 Civic did that.  I thought it was a feature -- you can see how much gas you have left without turning the key to "on". 

[triplemultiplex]

Uh oh, did somebody say "gas leak?"



Sorry, I had to go there.   

[djsinco]

It is a "mechanical" fuel gauge system (technically the "sending unit" is mechanical,) which shows the fuel level with ignition off. If it pegs the needle to "E," it is an electric system.

Either way, it is a possibility that your gas cap is the issue. Do you hear pressure release when you remove the gas cap to refuel?

[Brandon]

^^ Usually, if it is a gas cap issue, the "check engine" light will go on.

[vdeane]

It is a "mechanical" fuel gauge system (technically the "sending unit" is mechanical,) which shows the fuel level with ignition off. If it pegs the needle to "E," it is an electric system.

Either way, it is a possibility that your gas cap is the issue. Do you hear pressure release when you remove the gas cap to refuel?

Didn't this last time; the car also takes a while to start cold, as if it's -20 outside.

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get an appointment with a mechanic before Thursday, and it will probably be even longer until it gets fixed.  How will I pay for all the gas I'm losing (a gallon a day, which up here we have $4/gallon)?  I don't have any income right now, and my budget relied on not having any expenses in April.  My parents don't pay for anything except insurance and some maintenance, so this combined with my upcoming move could bankrupt me.

[Duke87]

I don't know your parents, but I'd think that if you explained the situation to them they'd be willing to at least lend you some money.

[hbelkins]

Another option to consider ... I don't know if you told us where you were going to be working, but you might want to investigate the availability of joining a credit union due to your upcoming employment. The credit union might offer an advance loan to get you through until you start earning a paycheck. The credit union of which I'm a member offers that service.

Yet another possibility is to check around to see if there is a vocational school in the area that has an auto repair class. Those that do are often looking for cars to work on as a learning experience for the students, and the work is done under the watchful eye of a skilled mechanic.

[vdeane]

I don't know your parents, but I'd think that if you explained the situation to them they'd be willing to at least lend you some money.

To be honest, I haven't asked yet.  I normally pay gas, and they normally pay maintenance, but we've never dealt with this situation before.  Much of my panicking comes from having no clue what utilities cost, and when I have uncertainty, I tend to assume the worst.  There's also the fact that I tend to do some creative accounting to avoid having expenses go through my checking account, and when I graduate those options will go away (I was able to pay for the St. Lawrence County meet by using Knight Card (which gets funds loaded as part of tuition) to pay for dinner, and Monticello by convincing my parents to pay for it as a birthday gift).

[agentsteel53]

having no clue what utilities cost

this is easily researched.

I tend to do some creative accounting to avoid having expenses go through my checking account

please don't turn into the next Enron.

[agentsteel53]

The credit union might offer an advance loan to get you through until you start earning a paycheck.

I think this is potentially terrible advice!

"go into debt" should not be a knee-jerk solution to all of life's imagined problems.

[hbelkins]

The credit union might offer an advance loan to get you through until you start earning a paycheck.

I think this is potentially terrible advice!

"go into debt" should not be a knee-jerk solution to all of life's imagined problems.

The credit union offers this service because paychecks are delayed a month when you start working here. The pay periods are semi-monthly (checks are issued the 15th and 30th, or the first day prior to that calendar date if those days fall on weekends or holidays. If you start work on April 1, you won't get a check until April 30. That causes a hardship for some so the credit union offers what in effect is a paycheck advance.

[agentsteel53]

I'd find some quick job to raise some cash.

if I have to stand in front of Home Depot, so be it...