Electric Car Arguing 2022

[HighwayStar]

Nothing is worse than a rental car, people treat them like crap, and they usually drive like it. Nor can I go out and rent a decent road trip car, most of what is available for rent are econobox specials meant for a businessman to get around town for the week, not for 4 people to cruise long highway days in luxury.

BS

I have rented Sedans and Crossovers for long road trips that drive just fine. Schedule your rental ahead of time from a neighborhood rental shop (Avis, Enterprise, etc) and select what style of car you want. They'll get it there

Rented a car for Chicago-Denver, Chicago-DC, and Southern IL-Brainerd MN road trips. Cars drove great and it beat the crap, especially fuel mileage-wise, over driving my 06 Toyota Tacoma or, later, my 2014 F150

Crossovers are the worst possible type of vehicle for a road trip. The sedans you can rent today are all crap, that was not true 20 years ago but no matter how far out I schedule I am not getting something they don't have.

[Scott5114]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

[HighwayStar]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

[tolbs17]

This is better as EV cars are not directly related to road projects (highways, bridges, etc)

[DenverBrian]

I don't get the hate for EVs.

It's not hate; it's just curmudgeons being curmudgeons. And we have a plethora of those in this forum.

These are the same people whose grandfathers sat at the coffee shop, grousing about how them dang auter-matic transmissions were going to RUIN driving forever.

That's why I still have a manual. 

No worries. Along with perhaps 2% of the country, you can enjoy your manual.

And in a matter of years, we'll likely be down to 2% ICE cars and 98% electrics, and then you can proudly say that you still have a gas car. <shrugs>

[ilpt4u]

No worries. Along with perhaps 2% of the country, you can enjoy your manual.

And in a matter of years, we'll likely be down to 2% ICE cars and 98% electrics, and then you can proudly say that you still have a gas car. <shrugs>

I'd probably go a couple decades before Electric trumps ICE that badly

Probably at least a decade before Electric breaks 50% on the road of Passenger Vehicles vs ICE

That said, should gas prices continue a steady rise, Electric will uptick more

[Rothman]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I rent at least somewhat frequently and have never had an experience like you've described.  And, I go with bottom-dollar rentals...or so I thought (I get a discount through Enterprise/National).

You must be renting from some pretty sketchy places. "Minimal cargo space"?  Choose a different car.

[HighwayStar]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I rent at least somewhat frequently and have never had an experience like you've described.  And, I go with bottom-dollar rentals...or so I thought (I get a discount through Enterprise/National).

You must be renting from some pretty sketchy places. "Minimal cargo space"?  Choose a different car.

There is no car I can choose that is going to match my road trip car.
I am guessing you just have modest expectations, which is fine if you do, but I am not so easily satisfied.

[Rothman]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I rent at least somewhat frequently and have never had an experience like you've described.  And, I go with bottom-dollar rentals...or so I thought (I get a discount through Enterprise/National).

You must be renting from some pretty sketchy places. "Minimal cargo space"?  Choose a different car.

There is no car I can choose that is going to match my road trip car.
I am guessing you just have modest expectations, which is fine if you do, but I am not so easily satisfied.

Sucks to be you, then. ;D

What's your car?

[Takumi]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

When I worked at Firestone, a local Enterprise would often have us do LOFR (lube/oil/filter/rotation, pronounced “loafer”) service on their cars, and they would very often smell like weed and have the cheapest possible tires on them. In multiple instances, if one of the tires had a non-repairable nail, we’d try to get them to replace it with the cheapest tire we could get in the size, and they’d usually say “sorry, that’s too expensive”. Once there was a nearly new crossover that had unusually high wear on multiple tires, and they declined any work that wasn’t an oil change service. This was maybe a year old vehicle, and all four tires were bald on the inside edge.

TLDR: rental cars have a reputation for a reason.

[Duke87]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I've never been charged by the mile for a rental. Unlimited mileage is a fairly standard thing.

[jeffandnicole]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

Why would you do something so risky like drive a friend's rental car in which you weren't an approved driver?

[HighwayStar]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

Why would you do something so risky like drive a friend's rental car in which you weren't an approved driver?

Not friend's rental cars, but friend's cars. The point was that some people are not car people, and will drive a disaster of a car without noticing it.

[HighwayStar]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I rent at least somewhat frequently and have never had an experience like you've described.  And, I go with bottom-dollar rentals...or so I thought (I get a discount through Enterprise/National).

You must be renting from some pretty sketchy places. "Minimal cargo space"?  Choose a different car.

There is no car I can choose that is going to match my road trip car.
I am guessing you just have modest expectations, which is fine if you do, but I am not so easily satisfied.

Sucks to be you, then. ;D

What's your car?

Oh I would say it would suck more to be driving a sub optimal road trip car indefinitely.
I drive an Ultimate Road Trip Car. 

[SectorZ]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I rent at least somewhat frequently and have never had an experience like you've described.  And, I go with bottom-dollar rentals...or so I thought (I get a discount through Enterprise/National).

You must be renting from some pretty sketchy places. "Minimal cargo space"?  Choose a different car.

There is no car I can choose that is going to match my road trip car.
I am guessing you just have modest expectations, which is fine if you do, but I am not so easily satisfied.

Sucks to be you, then. ;D

What's your car?

Oh I would say it would suck more to be driving a sub optimal road trip car indefinitely.
I drive an Ultimate Road Trip Car. 

You probably drive a 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage or Ford Ecosport and come here trying to bravado your way into making us think you have something "tougher".

[Rothman]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I rent at least somewhat frequently and have never had an experience like you've described.  And, I go with bottom-dollar rentals...or so I thought (I get a discount through Enterprise/National).

You must be renting from some pretty sketchy places. "Minimal cargo space"?  Choose a different car.

There is no car I can choose that is going to match my road trip car.
I am guessing you just have modest expectations, which is fine if you do, but I am not so easily satisfied.

Sucks to be you, then. ;D

What's your car?

Oh I would say it would suck more to be driving a sub optimal road trip car indefinitely.
I drive an Ultimate Road Trip Car. 

You probably drive a 3 cylinder Mitsubishi Mirage or Ford Ecosport and come here trying to bravado your way into making us think you have something "tougher".

Yeah, being hedgy about what car one drives is telling.

[formulanone]

Mods: please merge this with the discussion we had less than two months ago.

OP: do a search

[hotdogPi]

OP: do a search

This was a thread split from the 2021 Infrastructure Bill thread.

[1995hoo]

Returning to the main topic and disregarding the troll (I skipped most of this thread once I saw the "special" user had entered), Car and Driver published a very good and very interesting issue last summer in which they selected an "EV of the Year" (they chose the Ford Mustang Mach-E). It also included a glossary of common terms associated with EVs, an article in which they pitted a bunch of EVs against each other in a 1000-mile loop road trip that included a long off-Interstate segment, and various other articles. Well worth reading even if you don't think you'd be interested in an EV. (The drivers' conclusion in the "EV 1000" article: For long road trips, you want to use an ICE vehicle, even if you have access to a Tesla. The Teslas in the field finished first due to that company's more-developed and more-reliable charging infrastructure.)

I think it's well worth learning about EVs and being aware of what's on the market even though I hope not to be looking for a car any time soon. Reason: I don't know what the market will be like when the time does come. My primary car is 18 years old (my other one is 34 years old and at the moment won't start) and I know it won't last forever, though I'd be very happy if it did. So I'd rather have some understanding of EVs when the time comes so that I'm educated as to all my options. On paper, I'm probably an ideal EV customer–I have no commute (I work from home) and on a regular basis, the farthest I routinely drive is to our favorite winery in Linden, Virginia. Plus my wife has two ICE vehicles, one of them a 2015 Acura that we already use for long trips, so if we did have an EV, we could continue to use that car to avoid the "time lost to charging" conundrum and the "I want to get off the Interstate but all the charging infrastructure is focused on the Interstate" problem.

But I hope not to be in that situation for several years!


Edited to fix a typo (autocorrect somehow changed "Ford"  to "Fox" ).

[formulanone]

OP: do a search

This was a thread split from the 2021 Infrastructure Bill thread.

Mods: please do a better search 

[SEWIGuy]

I was unaware there were people that enjoyed driving crap cars with loose steering, poor alignment, dirty interiors, cheap tires, minimal cargo space, no leg room, hard as rock seats, and a vague odor of cheap cigarettes for hundreds of miles at a time while paying by the mile for the privilege to do so. 

Who the fuck have you been renting cars from? Literally never experienced any of that in a rental.

That's every one I have ever rented, but I do know people vary widely in how much they pay attention to vehicles. I have had friends that had me drive theirs and within minutes of starting out I had found an issue they had been blissfully unaware of.

I rent at least somewhat frequently and have never had an experience like you've described.  And, I go with bottom-dollar rentals...or so I thought (I get a discount through Enterprise/National).

You must be renting from some pretty sketchy places. "Minimal cargo space"?  Choose a different car.

I think it depends.  I had to rent a car recently when my car was getting fixed after an accident.  That car was awful.

But when I have rented from an airport while on a business trip?  I have had little problem finding a decent, but admittedly pretty basic car.  Not as nice as the one I drive at home, but it doesn't need to be.

Oh and I drive a pretty loaded 2020 Kia Optima at home.

[mgk920]

These issues with range, turnaround time on refueling/recharging, cold weather performance, cost of repairs, fire department and rescue procedures, available infrastructure, etc, are exactly what doomed straight electric automotive technology in the earliest days of automobility (as in before 1900).  I see no reason to waste my time and money and change my outlook on the tech simply because of the current PC and 'wokeness' issues that are pushing it.

Mike

[tolbs17]

Mods: please merge this with the discussion we had less than two months ago.

OP: do a search

But wasn't this thread directed to the infrastructure bill?

[DenverBrian]

No worries. Along with perhaps 2% of the country, you can enjoy your manual.

And in a matter of years, we'll likely be down to 2% ICE cars and 98% electrics, and then you can proudly say that you still have a gas car. <shrugs>

I'd probably go a couple decades before Electric trumps ICE that badly

Probably at least a decade before Electric breaks 50% on the road of Passenger Vehicles vs ICE

That said, should gas prices continue a steady rise, Electric will uptick more

Hey, a couple of decades is still years.

And, as a comparison, it took perhaps 50 years for automatic transmissions to almost totally subsume manual transmissions. But it did happen. I was just commenting that the same will happen with electric cars. It's not a matter of if, just a matter of when.

For me, I have an ICE car right now that I absolutely love. But, in three years, if there is an electric SUV with proper bells and whistles, 300-mile or greater range, and a reasonable recharge network nationwide...I'll be making the switch. Heck, if for no other reason than I can eliminate oil changes from my life and take that time back for other stuff.

[kalvado]

No worries. Along with perhaps 2% of the country, you can enjoy your manual.

And in a matter of years, we'll likely be down to 2% ICE cars and 98% electrics, and then you can proudly say that you still have a gas car. <shrugs>

I'd probably go a couple decades before Electric trumps ICE that badly

Probably at least a decade before Electric breaks 50% on the road of Passenger Vehicles vs ICE

That said, should gas prices continue a steady rise, Electric will uptick more

Hey, a couple of decades is still years.

And, as a comparison, it took perhaps 50 years for automatic transmissions to almost totally subsume manual transmissions. But it did happen. I was just commenting that the same will happen with electric cars. It's not a matter of if, just a matter of when.

For me, I have an ICE car right now that I absolutely love. But, in three years, if there is an electric SUV with proper bells and whistles, 300-mile or greater range, and a reasonable recharge network nationwide...I'll be making the switch. Heck, if for no other reason than I can eliminate oil changes from my life and take that time back for other stuff.

"almost totally" is relative. Europe is still not fully convinced (as of 2017, at least). CVTs would have to change that, though - but that is  nether manual nor you old car automatic one