New York State Thruway

[vdeane]

And yeah, I'm not sure NY-Michigan via Canada is as common as one would think, especially for people who don't live in either Michigan or Buffalo.  US customs looked at me like I had three heads when I did that on my way to the Michigan City meet (my overnight was in Port Huron, and I only disclosed my travels further west when they wanted more details on my trip itinerary).

I suspect it might be more common than you're thinking however.  And I had no problems at Customs the two times I've done it (admittedly pre-COVID).

Probably more common for those with NEXUS than those without.  And for people around the Rochester/Buffalo area than around Albany.  It definitely something my relatives wouldn't raise an eyebrow at, but for the I-94 corridor at least, they consider the time at customs post-9/11 to make it not worth doing.

Now, I have heard that the Blue Water Bridge is unusually thorough as far as POEs go (pretty much every car was taking 2-5 minutes to clear in my line, which is something I have never seen before; I had thought that maybe the officer had recently transferred from the Mexican border until I found out that the BWB is just like that normally).  It probably has something to do with the crossing being mostly freight rather than tourists, so I wonder if the Gordie Howe Bridge will have a similar dynamic vs. the Ambassador Bridge and the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel (which have a lot of local traffic).  It probably would have also helped if I was staying in Port Huron longer so I could have had more of an itinerary than "visit the lightship and then proceed further west".  Both the American and Canadian border guards asked, but only the American one cared to follow-up further.

[elsmere241]

And yeah, I'm not sure NY-Michigan via Canada is as common as one would think, especially for people who don't live in either Michigan or Buffalo.  US customs looked at me like I had three heads when I did that on my way to the Michigan City meet (my overnight was in Port Huron, and I only disclosed my travels further west when they wanted more details on my trip itinerary).

William Least Heat-Moon did it going east in 1978, as chronicled in his book Blue Highways.

[vdeane]

And yeah, I'm not sure NY-Michigan via Canada is as common as one would think, especially for people who don't live in either Michigan or Buffalo.  US customs looked at me like I had three heads when I did that on my way to the Michigan City meet (my overnight was in Port Huron, and I only disclosed my travels further west when they wanted more details on my trip itinerary).

William Least Heat-Moon did it going east in 1978, as chronicled in his book Blue Highways.

Pre-9/11 it would have been considered a no-brainer for anyone who wasn't inadmissible to Canada for some reason.  Back then, crossing the border was no more of a hassle than paying your toll on the Thruway was.  But post-9/11, that changed.  My relatives (some in Rochester, some around Kalamazoo) no longer consider it worth doing due to the border hassle/wait time.

[webny99]

Now, I have heard that the Blue Water Bridge is unusually thorough as far as POEs go (pretty much every car was taking 2-5 minutes to clear in my line, which is something I have never seen before; I had thought that maybe the officer had recently transferred from the Mexican border until I found out that the BWB is just like that normally).  It probably has something to do with the crossing being mostly freight rather than tourists,

My own experience and typical traffic data would confirm this, to the point where I personally consider the Blue Water Bridge to be the single worst land border crossing between the US and Canada. None of the Buffalo/Niagara crossings come even close to touching the 2+ mile truck traffic backups that are completely normal at the Blue Water Bridge, and it's often not much better for cars.

[Rothman]

Been across Ontario a few times.  Never had an issue with customs.  Had bad traffic at the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, but not at the Blue Water Bridge.  Still I've only been across the latter a couple of times.

Only time I ever was asked to open my car for a search was at I-81/ON 137/Alexandria Bay.

[vdeane]

My own experience and typical traffic data would confirm this, to the point where I personally consider the Blue Water Bridge to be the single worst land border crossing between the US and Canada. None of the Buffalo/Niagara crossings come even close to touching the 2+ mile truck traffic backups that are completely normal at the Blue Water Bridge, and it's often not much better for cars.

Wait, that's normal?  I thought that was just due to the construction that has one span completely closed.

[webny99]

My own experience and typical traffic data would confirm this, to the point where I personally consider the Blue Water Bridge to be the single worst land border crossing between the US and Canada. None of the Buffalo/Niagara crossings come even close to touching the 2+ mile truck traffic backups that are completely normal at the Blue Water Bridge, and it's often not much better for cars.

Wait, that's normal?  I thought that was just due to the construction that has one span completely closed.

Two miles might be a bit exaggerated, but long backups for trucks are absolutely the norm there, especially entering the US. I recall at least once in particular where trucks were backed up to 402 Exit 1 which is exactly 2 miles from US customs.

[vdeane]

My own experience and typical traffic data would confirm this, to the point where I personally consider the Blue Water Bridge to be the single worst land border crossing between the US and Canada. None of the Buffalo/Niagara crossings come even close to touching the 2+ mile truck traffic backups that are completely normal at the Blue Water Bridge, and it's often not much better for cars.

Wait, that's normal?  I thought that was just due to the construction that has one span completely closed.

Two miles might be a bit exaggerated, but long backups for trucks are absolutely the norm there, especially entering the US. I recall at least once in particular where trucks were backed up to 402 Exit 1 which is exactly 2 miles from US customs.

To be fair, the traffic layer on Google Maps often shows the Canada-bound backup as starting at the I-94/I-69 interchange on some days with the construction.  Canada seems to expect truck backups, as both the Blue Water Bridge and Lewiston-Queenston Bridge have truck queuing areas.

[lstone19]

My own experience and typical traffic data would confirm this, to the point where I personally consider the Blue Water Bridge to be the single worst land border crossing between the US and Canada. None of the Buffalo/Niagara crossings come even close to touching the 2+ mile truck traffic backups that are completely normal at the Blue Water Bridge, and it's often not much better for cars.

I haven't crossed the BWB since 2019 but my experience was the toll collectors were the bottleneck - slow as molasses (both directions - maybe deliberately to meter traffic to the border booths?). I have NEXUS so once past the toll booths, it was clear sailing using the NEXUS lane on the bridge and then up to an empty inspection booth.

[thenetwork]

My own experience and typical traffic data would confirm this, to the point where I personally consider the Blue Water Bridge to be the single worst land border crossing between the US and Canada. None of the Buffalo/Niagara crossings come even close to touching the 2+ mile truck traffic backups that are completely normal at the Blue Water Bridge, and it's often not much better for cars.

I haven't crossed the BWB since 2019 but my experience was the toll collectors were the bottleneck - slow as molasses (both directions - maybe deliberately to meter traffic to the border booths?). I have NEXUS so once past the toll booths, it was clear sailing using the NEXUS lane on the bridge and then up to an empty inspection booth.

If I recall correctly, The Whirlpool Bridge crossing was more of a little-known "locals" crossing in the Niagara region.  At one time, most anyone could use it, until it became a NEXUS-only crossing. Then you had to use one of the other Big 3 crossings of the Niagara River.

[James]

And, would the I-490 interchanges be rebuilt/redesigned as part of your proposal? Because they sure aren't great now and haven't been significantly improved in decades to my knowledge (other than arguably the toll booth removal).

Yes, they very much would be.

Also, fairly solid points on the US/Canada border crossing times but I do have a NEXUS Card.

Mainly though, I'm just thinking ahead by a few decades. A 6-lane I-90 might not be needed from Syracuse to Albany just yet but I think it will be in the future as that section of I-90 is still the main link between New England and Buffalo/Toronto.

At the very least, I-90 should be 6 lanes between Buffalo and Rochester.

[vdeane]

I haven't crossed the BWB since 2019 but my experience was the toll collectors were the bottleneck - slow as molasses (both directions - maybe deliberately to meter traffic to the border booths?). I have NEXUS so once past the toll booths, it was clear sailing using the NEXUS lane on the bridge and then up to an empty inspection booth.

They were quick when I crossed it a month ago.  They had the card reader out before I could even grab my card and roll the window down, though it did take a short bit between when the card read and when they actually raised the gate (longer than it took to grab and run the card).

[cu2010]

My own experience and typical traffic data would confirm this, to the point where I personally consider the Blue Water Bridge to be the single worst land border crossing between the US and Canada. None of the Buffalo/Niagara crossings come even close to touching the 2+ mile truck traffic backups that are completely normal at the Blue Water Bridge, and it's often not much better for cars.

Wait, that's normal?  I thought that was just due to the construction that has one span completely closed.

Two miles might be a bit exaggerated, but long backups for trucks are absolutely the norm there, especially entering the US. I recall at least once in particular where trucks were backed up to 402 Exit 1 which is exactly 2 miles from US customs.

I've never had a wait less than thirty minutes there during daytime hours. The last time I crossed there the wait was nearly an hour. Every lane was slow.

I think the issues at the Port Huron Port of Entry have more to do with outdated infrastructure/technology than anything...yes crossing there can be pitifully slow at times but I've found the border guards there generally pleasant and professional. They've never given me a hassle, and I routinely use that crossing as a shortcut to Michigan from NY. I sat at the booth once for ten minutes because their systems crashed as I pulled up to it.

There are plans to reconstruct the entire Port of Entry in the coming years.

[vdeane]

I think the issues at the Port Huron Port of Entry have more to do with outdated infrastructure/technology than anything...yes crossing there can be pitifully slow at times but I've found the border guards there generally pleasant and professional. They've never given me a hassle, and I routinely use that crossing as a shortcut to Michigan from NY. I sat at the booth once for ten minutes because their systems crashed as I pulled up to it.

That's a interesting point.  Customs certainly likes to keep asking questions while they sift through information rather than have silence; it's the reason why I favor my EDL over my passport, as them flipping through the passport pages just leads to a longer interrogation.  If it was taking them a long time to pull up computer info, that could certainly explain the extra-thorough questioning at that crossing.

[Jim]

I drove by the Patterson Service Area for the first time in a week or so.  The parking lot has been paved and striped, outside signs are up on the building, and there are banners on the fencing announcing "Opening Soon."  This was one of the renovations rather than a tear down.

At Mohawk, there's now a steel frame of the new (tiny) building.

[Snappyjack]

Makes me wonder why they didn't just remodel and enhance the existing buildings as they were, since they're going that route with a few. It just seems like that would've been the preferred route considering the ensuing buildings have drawn complaints.

[kalvado]

Makes me wonder why they didn't just remodel and enhance the existing buildings as they were, since they're going that route with a few. It just seems like that would've been the preferred route considering the ensuing buildings have drawn complaints.

Because they wanted to build anew, smaller and worse.
I may be mistaken, but I believe renovations only happen because the company run out of money, and state didn't bulge for a bailout. 

[vdeane]

Makes me wonder why they didn't just remodel and enhance the existing buildings as they were, since they're going that route with a few. It just seems like that would've been the preferred route considering the ensuing buildings have drawn complaints.

There actually was a Twitter thread about that.  Apparently one of the people on the project thought the application used to evaluate the condition of the buildings was biased in favor of tear-down, allegedly so that contractors could get paid by the new operator to build the new buildings.  Applegreen might have preferred the new buildings as well, as their business model and the business model of the old service areas are not the same.  The old business model involved providing service to travelers stopping for a meal, rest, and bathroom break.  The new business model seems to be oriented on getting people in and out as quickly as possible, with the ideal customer being someone who uses the drive-thru or who picks something up at the convenience store and then leaves, with the next most ideal being getting take-out from a restaurant (in this model, the core function of the bathrooms is to draw in potential customers who would have otherwise driven on by; the service provided is now the means and not the end).  They do allow dine-in, but I'm convinced it's because they're mandated to do so, not because they want to, and good luck dining in at one of the smaller service areas (the two smallest don't/won't have food that people would want to eat as a meal anyways).

(personal opinion)

[Sam]

I'm not bothered by the size, design, or process, but I think it's interesting that the Applegreen areas in Northern Ireland seem to be bigger than those in NY. I'm not sure how the traffic counts compare.

https://visitbelfast.com/partners/applegreen

[vdeane]

I'm not bothered by the size, design, or process, but I think it's interesting that the Applegreen areas in Northern Ireland seem to be bigger than those in NY. I'm not sure how the traffic counts compare.

https://visitbelfast.com/partners/applegreen

They also run the service areas on the Ohio Turnpike, and those are much better as well.

The irony is, for as much as they clearly want to get people in/out as quickly as possible and not to stick around, all of the food options on the new Thruway service areas have a reputation for being slow as molasses, even places that normally aren't in off-Thruway locations (this might not be specific to New York, however; my parents had the same complaints both times they stopped on the Ohio Turnpike).  And the lines to use the bathroom don't help matters.

[jeffandnicole]

Applegreen also operates the service areas on the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Parkway.  While over a dozen buildings were replaced or renovated as well, the project started under the previous operator, HMSHost, which Applegreen bought in 2021.  I don't know if Applegreen made any substantial changes to the project's plans.

Other than people joking about the names of the plazas, you never really hear anything negative about the plazas, both pre and post renovation/replacement.  Well, maybe other than the prices.

While the buildings are the responsibility of the contractor to maintain and update, the parking lots are the responsibility of the NJTA.  NJTA turned over the modification projects of the lots to the contractors of the buildings to work on since they already had their equipment on site, and it's much easier for one contractor to do both projects, than 2 contractors to need to work out scheduling issues.  The NJTA reimbursed the building contractor for expenses incurred working on the parking lots.

Sunoco, who operates most of the fueling stations on the Turnpike and Parkway, also is responsible for their area and renovations as well.

[SignBridge]

Well it's not surprising, given that the NJTA generally runs a class act and does things smartly. If Applegreen wanted the NJTA's business, they had to get their act together I guess. Couldn't get away with the NY Thruway Auth's low standards in New Jersey. LOL

[MASTERNC]

Applegreen also operates the service areas on the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Parkway.  While over a dozen buildings were replaced or renovated as well, the project started under the previous operator, HMSHost, which Applegreen bought in 2021.  I don't know if Applegreen made any substantial changes to the project's plans.

Other than people joking about the names of the plazas, you never really hear anything negative about the plazas, both pre and post renovation/replacement.  Well, maybe other than the prices.

While the buildings are the responsibility of the contractor to maintain and update, the parking lots are the responsibility of the NJTA.  NJTA turned over the modification projects of the lots to the contractors of the buildings to work on since they already had their equipment on site, and it's much easier for one contractor to do both projects, than 2 contractors to need to work out scheduling issues.  The NJTA reimbursed the building contractor for expenses incurred working on the parking lots.

Sunoco, who operates most of the fueling stations on the Turnpike and Parkway, also is responsible for their area and renovations as well.

They took over the PA Turnpike as well but have not made any upgrades to vendors, except replacing some Starbucks with Dunkin

[vdeane]

Looks like the Thruway might get a truck-only exit 21C.

https://www.wamc.org/news/2024-08-29/albany-county-legislator-seeks-new-thruway-exit-for-coeymans

[Rothman]

Looks like the Thruway might get a truck-only exit 21C.

https://www.wamc.org/news/2024-08-29/albany-county-legislator-seeks-new-thruway-exit-for-coeymans

Pfft.  New interchange rumors are as common as one-dollar bills, supported by elected officials or not.