New York State Thruway

[vdeane]

The eastbound Thruway is currently closed between Exits 41 and 40 due to a major crash. It is easily the worst possible location for a closure on the entire Buffalo-Syracuse stretch (as I outlined in this rather insane post), and there are predictably major backups on the Thruway at Exit 41, NY 318, NY 5/US 20 through Montezuma, and NY 31 in Port Byron.

The lack of turn lanes on 5 & 20 at NY 90 is something NYSDOT and NYSTA should consider coordinating to resolve, as it creates major problems any time there's an incident on the Thruway.

Wow.  Google's advice is "route closed; no other routes available; check conditions before you go".  I don't think I've ever seen that before.

Is it just me, or are major incidents on the Thruway becoming increasingly common?  I thought maybe I could back off on hating the Thruway as much after my drive yesterday happened without incident, but then this gives me pause (even though I'm thankfully not affected by this particular one).

[MASTERNC]

Fortunately it looks like the incident is now clear, per the Thruway website and the traffic cams

[webny99]

Wow.  Google's advice is "route closed; no other routes available; check conditions before you go".  I don't think I've ever seen that before.

This is a glitch that I've seen a few times with Google Maps. It normally happens if one of your endpoints is on a closed route, but sometimes it happens randomly and in that case a page refresh usually takes care of it.

[Jim]

Pattersonville is open.

[webny99]

Is it just me, or are major incidents on the Thruway becoming increasingly common?  I thought maybe I could back off on hating the Thruway as much after my drive yesterday happened without incident, but then this gives me pause (even though I'm thankfully not affected by this particular one).

After giving it some thought, it's tough to say definitively. There's definitely a correlation between higher traffic volume and more incidents occurring, as there was a notable downturn during 2020-2021, but the frequency seems to have crept back up on us over the last few years. Still, I don't think things are necessarily worse than they were pre-covid.

And the Thruway is actually pretty good relative to some corridors, like I-95 along the Bos-Wash or the QEW up in Ontario. The biggest problem is that the lack of exits creates a major headache for trying to get around an incident, or in some cases makes it infeasible entirely. Fewer exits also magnifies the effect of a full closure, since you're going to be stuck on backroads for a long distance unless you're near Rochester or Syracuse, and the congestion on the backroads can persist long after the initial incident has cleared up.

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour. The effects of that for anyone blindly following Google for directions are disastrous. The instant the Thruway reopens, knowing that it has reopened is invaluable to anyone in the vicinity, even if they're already well past the exit. For example, everyone stuck in traffic on NY 318 when the Thruway reopened would have saved significant time by turning around and going back to Exit 41. I get that Google can't mass re-route everyone stuck in traffic, but they should be recommending it for anyone using Google Maps that has a viable route back to the previous exit. It would also help the traffic that's entering the area, since they may want to actually stay on the Thruway to bypass the congested backroads rather than getting off at their usual location. For example, in the immediate aftermath of the Thruway reopening, I-90 EB traffic heading to Auburn that usually exits at 41 would have saved a ton of time by staying on the Thruway to Exit 40, and doing so would have also helped reduce congestion on the backroads.

[lstone19]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

[Ted$8roadFan]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

Don't know about Google, but Waze lets users identify crashes, heavy traffic, police presence, vehicles on shoulders, and so on. It;s not always good at routing around crashes and standstill traffic, though.

[Mr. Matté]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

Google Maps does have user submitted closures, don't know if it can be done through the app/Android Auto/Apple's version of that. A lot of the times for the more permanent closures (construction as opposed to major crashes) the "end date" is just a long time away (e.g. a small bridge replacement - "Road closed until September 2028"). I'm surprised that GM hasn't implemented some kind of AI that would recognize when "green traffic" is flowing through these marked road closures and would remove the red dashes from that segment.

[Rothman]

I believe Google crawls 511 sites.

[lstone19]

I believe Google crawls 511 sites.

That makes sense. As far as user reported stuff, I know I can report via the app something on the road I'm on but I've never seen a way to report something on a road I'm not (or can't be) on.

Back during the solar eclipse of a few years ago (not this year's), I found that its algorithm could not distinguish between a road on which all traffic is completely stopped and free-flowing. I assume it filters out stopped vehicles (they must have completely stopped for a reason) and seeing no traffic moving at all, decided the road was free-flowing (it wasn't but fortunately I was able to u-turn out of there before committing to the stopped road).

I agree that seeing traffic moving on a road that was reported closed would be a good reason to remove the closure. But, if you had your nav app on, why would you be on that road since it would have directed you away from it (unless you were just approaching where it would direct you away only to see it had re-opened and understood what that meant (which is not the people who blindly follow their nav app even when it makes no sense))?

[hotdogPi]

Possible thread split.

Waze has directed me along a minor collector road during a snowstorm, seeing that I-495 is slow (due to the storm) but not having enough data for the minor road and assuming it's fine when it's still subject to the same storm.

[Jim]

Bad spots for a crash/closure were mentioned recently for the Rochester-Buffalo stretch.  This has probably come up before in the 128 pages of this thread for the Albany area, where there really aren't good alternates between 24 and 25.  It would take a pretty massive delay for me to consider diverting to 5, 7, or 20.  West of 25 on my commute, 5/5S and 890 are good alternates if I feel the need to avoid the Thruway (and sometimes do so just for the change of scenery).  Aiming to get between Amsterdam and Loudonville, I'd probably end up taking 155/Albany Shaker/7/890 if I really needed to stay off the Thruway between 24 and 25.

[webny99]

Google Maps does have user submitted closures, don't know if it can be done through the app/Android Auto/Apple's version of that.

Yep, it can, though you have to be actively using navigation, not just browsing (this is likely to verify that you are actually driving on the route and not just reporting things at random). I've reported an accident myself a time or two.

I agree that seeing traffic moving on a road that was reported closed would be a good reason to remove the closure. But, if you had your nav app on, why would you be on that road since it would have directed you away from it (unless you were just approaching where it would direct you away only to see it had re-opened and understood what that meant (which is not the people who blindly follow their nav app even when it makes no sense))?

My point was that removing the closure ASAP is the key because it allows Google to immediately reroute you to use that route if it's faster. It doesn't really matter where you are on the route - if you've exited a few exits early, you can get back on sooner. If you've already exited at the closure point, you can reroute and get back on at the closure point. No matter what, removing the closure needs to be done first so that accurate directions can be provided to all users wherever they are at that point in time.

[vdeane]

Bad spots for a crash/closure were mentioned recently for the Rochester-Buffalo stretch.  This has probably come up before in the 128 pages of this thread for the Albany area, where there really aren't good alternates between 24 and 25.  It would take a pretty massive delay for me to consider diverting to 5, 7, or 20.  West of 25 on my commute, 5/5S and 890 are good alternates if I feel the need to avoid the Thruway (and sometimes do so just for the change of scenery).  Aiming to get between Amsterdam and Loudonville, I'd probably end up taking 155/Albany Shaker/7/890 if I really needed to stay off the Thruway between 24 and 25.

I've heard of people using Curry Road for that purpose.

[Jim]

I stopped this evening to check out the newly-opened Pattersonville service area for a few minutes.  Being a remodel, it's a far better setup than the ones they tore down and rebuilt.  Chick-fil-A, Panera, and Starbucks were all open and none were busy at all.  The CFA looks to have about a $2.00 per meal Thruway premium on pricing compared to normal locations locally.  The men's room looks like it's just a remodel in the same configuration of what was there, and remains far larger than what would have probably been created with a tear down/rebuild.  In what was the pretty empty entrance atrium area before, there are pods of couches and chairs around low tables.  I didn't go back into the dining seating area but it looks like some of the space that used to be there for the Roy Rogers has been taken for the truckers' lounge.  I suppose none of this matters too much to me anyway as I don't usually have much need to stop at a service area when I'm under 10 minutes to home.  We'll see if having a CFA that I can hit on my ride home from work for the first time ever (at least one outside of TSA checkpoints) tempts me once in a while even with the Thruway premium pricing.

[webny99]

Still, I don't think things are necessarily worse than they were pre-covid.

Sorry folks, I may have jinxed it. As of around 4:45 this morning, there is another full closure on the EB thruway, this time due to a crash near Exit 42 that has all EB traffic exiting at Exit 43 (Manchester). NY 96 is predictably a major slog, and NY 14 has also backed up onto NY 96 for the left turn to re-enter the Thruway.

Whatever is going on has also affected the Thruway WB, too: there's currently a 1-hour WB delay approaching Exit 42. I'd say WB traffic would start detouring too, but whatever is going on should be highly visible to anyone heading west. If anything, WB traffic would be advised to take Exit 41 to NY 318 and reenter here given the proximity of the incident to the entrance ramp.

[MASTERNC]

Still, I don't think things are necessarily worse than they were pre-covid.

Whoops, I may have jinxed it. As of around 4:45 this morning, there is another full closure on the WB thruway, this time due to a crash near Exit 42 that has all WB traffic exiting at Exit 43 (Manchester). NY 96 is predictably a major slog, and NY 14 has also backed up onto NY 96 for the left turn to re-enter the Thruway.

Whatever is going on has also affected the Thruway EB, too: there's currently a 1-hour EB delay approaching Exit 42. I'd say EB traffic would start detouring too, but whatever is going on should be highly visible to anyone heading east. If anything, EB traffic would be advised to take Exit 41 to NY 318 and reenter here given the proximity of the incident to the entrance ramp.

Thruway is reporting EB is closed at Exit 43 but doesn't mention WB now.

[webny99]

Thruway is reporting EB is closed at Exit 43 but doesn't mention WB now.

Whoops, my bad, I had EB and WB flip flopped in that entire post. Should be reading correctly now.

[webny99]

Wow, it was a three-tractor trailer crash that caused a significant mess on the roadway, so it could be a while before it reopens:
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/rochester/traffic/2024/09/26/all-lanes-blocked-by-tractor-trailer-crash-on-thruway-in-ontario-county

Update as of 11:55 AM: the closed segment has reopened, but the right lane is still closed in the vicinity of the crash.

Update as of 4:45 PM: about 12 hours after the initial incident, the right lane has been cleared and traffic is moving well through the area.

[Plutonic Panda]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

Don't know about Google, but Waze lets users identify crashes, heavy traffic, police presence, vehicles on shoulders, and so on. It;s not always good at routing around crashes and standstill traffic, though.

Doesn't Google own Waze? I was under the impression that anything reported on Waze is automatically added to Google maps as well.

[jeffandnicole]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

Don't know about Google, but Waze lets users identify crashes, heavy traffic, police presence, vehicles on shoulders, and so on. It;s not always good at routing around crashes and standstill traffic, though.

Doesn't Google own Waze? I was under the impression that anything reported on Waze is automatically added to Google maps as well.

Unfortunately, some people report cops as speed traps every time they see one.  Doesn't matter if they already have someone pulled over, is working a crash or just traveling - some people are a bit quick on the 'Speedtrap' button.

[Rothman]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

Don't know about Google, but Waze lets users identify crashes, heavy traffic, police presence, vehicles on shoulders, and so on. It;s not always good at routing around crashes and standstill traffic, though.

Doesn't Google own Waze? I was under the impression that anything reported on Waze is automatically added to Google maps as well.

Unfortunately, some people report cops as speed traps every time they see one.  Doesn't matter if they already have someone pulled over, is working a crash or just traveling - some people are a bit quick on the 'Speedtrap' button.

Given the number of times I've seen a cop pull out from a speed stop and immediately pull someone else over, I don't have an issue with this.

[Mr. Matté]

I use Waze, my only options for police reporting are "Police," "Hidden," and "Other Side."

In addition to marking potential speed traps, it's also useful since I think most states have the move over for police on shoulder laws now so you can get into the left lane in advance when that pops up.

[jeffandnicole]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

Don't know about Google, but Waze lets users identify crashes, heavy traffic, police presence, vehicles on shoulders, and so on. It;s not always good at routing around crashes and standstill traffic, though.

Doesn't Google own Waze? I was under the impression that anything reported on Waze is automatically added to Google maps as well.

Unfortunately, some people report cops as speed traps every time they see one.  Doesn't matter if they already have someone pulled over, is working a crash or just traveling - some people are a bit quick on the 'Speedtrap' button.

Given the number of times I've seen a cop pull out from a speed stop and immediately pull someone else over, I don't have an issue with this.

Unless you were the one pulled over, how would you know a cop had someone pulled over for a speed stop?

[Rothman]

I am also annoyed by how long the Thruway remained marked as closed on Google Maps even after it had reopened. It was obvious to me almost instantly because I could see the backup at Exit 41 had dissolved, yet Google continued to show it as closed for over an hour.

Serious question here: how does Google Maps and the other navigation apps learn about road closures and re-openings? I honestly have no idea how that information is disseminated to them. Somehow they need to be told so the fault is with whoever would have passed that information on to Google and the others.

Don't know about Google, but Waze lets users identify crashes, heavy traffic, police presence, vehicles on shoulders, and so on. It;s not always good at routing around crashes and standstill traffic, though.

Doesn't Google own Waze? I was under the impression that anything reported on Waze is automatically added to Google maps as well.

Unfortunately, some people report cops as speed traps every time they see one.  Doesn't matter if they already have someone pulled over, is working a crash or just traveling - some people are a bit quick on the 'Speedtrap' button.

Given the number of times I've seen a cop pull out from a speed stop and immediately pull someone else over, I don't have an issue with this.

Unless you were the one pulled over, how would you know a cop had someone pulled over for a speed stop?

Because I saw them from behind.