Michigan Notes

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Are end signs common in Michigan? I know they are common here in Wisconsin.

They are.

[Flint1979]

Are end signs common in Michigan? I know they are common here in Wisconsin.

It varies. Some have ENDS on top, some have END on the bottom, some say ENDS on the bottom, some say END on top.

Here's one for ya.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5954255,-83.9531237,3a,15y,113.02h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sSufKO-5cem1yQ8bgUnwHwg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0%26panoid%3DSufKO-5cem1yQ8bgUnwHwg%26yaw%3D113.02423453170357!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Same exit on the other side:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5966951,-83.943156,3a,15y,289.91h,91.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1syQYHanCsivK-iD3p_-2Elg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-1.638171791798868%26panoid%3DyQYHanCsivK-iD3p_-2Elg%26yaw%3D289.91165376049145!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[wanderer2575]

And some don't have END posted at all, which I find irritating -- especially when the numbered route ends but the physical road continues.

In Flint1979's first link ^ if you pull back a bit and look to the left, you will see the footing for a new overhead gantry.  I drove through there late Friday night; the new gantry and signs were up but no END US-10 assembly.  AAARRGHH!!  Maybe it's now posted on the other side of the bridge (I didn't continue through to look) but I'm not holding my breath.

[michiganguy123]

Some parts in Michigan have tons of Speed limit END signs as well. Maybe they'll increase the default speed limit higher than 55mph and these signs will have a purpose...

[GaryV]

Speed limit END signs as well. Maybe they'll increase the default speed limit higher than 55mph and these signs will have a purpose

They have a purpose now. If 45 mph ends, then the 55 mph default goes into effect, even if it's not signed.

[JCinSummerfield]

Some parts in Michigan have tons of Speed limit END signs as well. Maybe they'll increase the default speed limit higher than 55mph and these signs will have a purpose...

I've often wondered why they don't just post a Speed Limit 55 sign instead of the Speed Limit 45 Ends" in this situation.  The current setup is extra cost for the extra sign.

[rhen_var]

Some parts in Michigan have tons of Speed limit END signs as well. Maybe they'll increase the default speed limit higher than 55mph and these signs will have a purpose...

I've often wondered why they don't just post a Speed Limit 55 sign instead of the Speed Limit 45 Ends" in this situation.  The current setup is extra cost for the extra sign.

Well, they don't have to post periodic speed limit 55 signs further down the road.  So if the stretch of road is long enough it would actually save money.

[michiganguy123]

Some parts in Michigan have tons of Speed limit END signs as well. Maybe they'll increase the default speed limit higher than 55mph and these signs will have a purpose...

I've often wondered why they don't just post a Speed Limit 55 sign instead of the Speed Limit 45 Ends" in this situation.  The current setup is extra cost for the extra sign.

Well, they don't have to post periodic speed limit 55 signs further down the road.  So if the stretch of road is long enough it would actually save money.

In my experience they don't bother posting any sign and you just have to guess when it's 55mph.

[JREwing78]

Do YOU think you know the best answer to how to fund MDOT's activities? MDOT wants you to put your money where your mouth is. Specifically, they are hiring for a Fuel Tax Replacement Specialist, which is responsible for the research, development, and implementation of a replacement program for the existing fuel tax revenue.

More info: https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/michigan/MDOT/jobs/4684788/departmental-specialist-13-fuel-tax-replacement-specialist-ruc-finance

[JREwing78]

MDOT commemorated the completion of the permanent replacement M-30 bridge over the Tobacco River (Wixon Lake) in Gladwin County. The previous bridge was catastrophically damaged from flooding in 2020 that resulted from heavy rains and an upstream dam failure. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WikADW9oiYg

SM-G991U

[wanderer2575]

MDOT commemorated the completion of the permanent replacement M-30 bridge over the Tobacco River (Wixon Lake) in Gladwin County. The previous bridge was catastrophically damaged from flooding in 2020 that resulted from heavy rains and an upstream dam failure. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WikADW9oiYg

Immediately followed by news of lane closures tomorrow (October 10th) to replace asphalt pavement on the south approach because it doesn't meet specifications.  The MDOT news release also indicates the contractor is absorbing the cost of the fix.

[wanderer2575]

MDOT is hosting an open house to present the latest regarding the US-23 improvement study in Washtenaw County.  It is Monday 10/21 at the Washtenaw Community College, between noon and 2:00pm and then between 4:00pm and 7:00pm.

According to this news release, MDOT is currently pursuing a new half-assed concept called Safely Connecting Communities.  You will not be surprised to learn the concept includes rebuilding the existing two lanes in each direction but not adding any, and what sounds to me like relatively minor reconfigurations of the Washtenw Avenue interchange and the ramp from wbd I-94 to nbd US-23.  A link to an online comment form is included on the news release.

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe Ann Arbor will come to their senses and allow US 23 to be expanded to six lanes. And while we're at it, maybe I'll be crowned King of England.

[Flint1979]

The bridge over Wixom Lake on M-30 has re-opened. The lake is still empty but will be refilled once the dams are rebuilt.

[Flint1979]

Maybe Ann Arbor will come to their senses and allow US 23 to be expanded to six lanes. And while we're at it, maybe I'll be crowned King of England.

Just six lanes? It should be six lanes from I-75 in Flint to about M-59 and eight lanes south of there to US-12 then back to six lanes to M-50 then down to four lanes.

[KelleyCook]

Just six lanes? It should be six lanes from I-75 in Flint to about M-59 and eight lanes south of there to US-12 then back to six lanes to M-50 then down to four lanes.

Well sure that might work...

But then what about building trains ... or something else that will never happen.

[The Ghostbuster]

Given the stink that was raised over a six-lane expansion of US 23 in Ann Arbor, I'd be shocked if any expansion along the 23 corridor comes to fruition. I do like Flint1979's suggestion about expanding 23 north to Flint and south to M-50. Unfortunately, I'm one state to the west, and am not the ones Flint1979 would have to win over.

[JCinSummerfield]

Maybe Ann Arbor will come to their senses and allow US 23 to be expanded to six lanes. And while we're at it, maybe I'll be crowned King of England.

Just six lanes? It should be six lanes from I-75 in Flint to about M-59 and eight lanes south of there to US-12 then back to six lanes to M-50 then down to four lanes.

If you're going to all this investment & expansion, keep it 6 lanes all the way south to I-475 in Toledo.  Trust me, it needs it.

[JREwing78]

Speed cameras could start popping up in construction zones in Michigan if HB4132 and HB4133 pass the Michigan Senate. They've already passed the House and are awaiting final Senate floor votes, before going back to the House to approve the Senate's changes, and then on to the Governor's desk.

From Landline.media -https://landline.media/speed-red-light-camera-rule-revisions-now-law-in-six-states/

Specifically, the Michigan State Police and the Michigan Department of Transportation would be given permission to utilize automated enforcement at sites that do not have guard rails or other barriers.

Ticket cameras would be authorized for use in affected areas when construction workers are present. Owners of vehicles found traveling at least 10 mph above the posted speed limit would receive violation notices in the mail.

First-time offenders would receive a written warning in the mail. Repeat offenders with violations within three years would face fines up to $150. Subsequent offenses within the same time frame would result in fines up to $300.

A work zone safety fund also would be created, with the state Department of Treasury coordinating with state police and local law enforcement to increase police presence within work zones, to fund devices and to make other safety enhancements.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jtqjsilohuxgahwifljj2vd2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2023-HB-4132
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jtqjsilohuxgahwifljj2vd2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectname=2023-HB-4133

[michiganguy123]

Speed cameras could start popping up in construction zones in Michigan if HB4132 and HB4133 pass the Michigan Senate. They've already passed the House and are awaiting final Senate floor votes, before going back to the House to approve the Senate's changes, and then on to the Governor's desk.

From Landline.media -https://landline.media/speed-red-light-camera-rule-revisions-now-law-in-six-states/

Specifically, the Michigan State Police and the Michigan Department of Transportation would be given permission to utilize automated enforcement at sites that do not have guard rails or other barriers.

Ticket cameras would be authorized for use in affected areas when construction workers are present. Owners of vehicles found traveling at least 10 mph above the posted speed limit would receive violation notices in the mail.

First-time offenders would receive a written warning in the mail. Repeat offenders with violations within three years would face fines up to $150. Subsequent offenses within the same time frame would result in fines up to $300.

A work zone safety fund also would be created, with the state Department of Treasury coordinating with state police and local law enforcement to increase police presence within work zones, to fund devices and to make other safety enhancements.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jtqjsilohuxgahwifljj2vd2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2023-HB-4132
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jtqjsilohuxgahwifljj2vd2))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectname=2023-HB-4133

Does this count towards construction zones that have all the cones on the side and no workers in the middle of the night but forgot to cover up the 60mph sign?

[jander]

https://youtu.be/aK45G6oFZWA?si=mmak7_8NCrQJDPBG

Original helicopter footage of the Lee Road roundabout from when it first opened.

[Flint1979]

I guess the amount of times you use an undersized freeway such as US-23 between Flint and Toledo and I-94 from Port Huron to New Buffalo it grows on you that these highways suck and MDOT has done little to improve them. I like that I-69 is available to bypass I-94 between Marshall and Port Huron because I-94 is one hell of a nightmare statewide and I don't think it improves much once you get into Indiana but that's another state so I'm not complaining to MDOT there. But what does it take? I mean they should have known 20-25 years ago that US-23 and I-94 both should be widened.

This is an average day on US-23:
As you are going southbound the last few miles of I-75 are no picnic either and really I-75 should be widened in more areas too but at least that highway is eight lanes between Saginaw and Flint because I remember the nightmare there before it was eight lanes but anyway you get off I-75 and right away you are fighting with moving between the left lane and right lane because the traffic is moving too freaking slow, you fight this until just the other side of Fenton where you get a little break south of there until you are approaching M-59 and I-96, the last 2-3 miles before I-96 you are fighting with people getting over in the left lane to make the left exit for EB I-96 instead of staying out of the way and waiting to move over until you are about to exit, then south of there it's a see-saw battle all the way to about US-12, if the flex lanes are open it's a little better but not much. Then by the time you get to about Milan you are in a little better shape, Dundee area is a little more hectic but better than anything north of there as far as traffic goes. I travel it enough to know how it is and have gone further west to US-127 to avoid US-23 before. I've taken state highways between Lima and Saginaw quite a bit. As you are coming north I-75 starts to angle toward the NE at Lima so going north from there was fine. I hate US-23 with a passion though.

[JCinSummerfield]

US-127 was a nice alternate until they started construction in the Lansing area.  Now I take M-52 north, the cut east or west on M-57, depending on where I'm going.

[Flint1979]

US-127 was a nice alternate until they started construction in the Lansing area.  Now I take M-52 north, the cut east or west on M-57, depending on where I'm going.

I've taken M-52 for it's entire length back to Saginaw before, also in Ohio OH-109 is a good highway but there is a shortcut down there that avoids Delta taking some county roads to US-6 then back to OH-109 and OH-65 to Lima or vice versa coming the other way. The only problem with M-52 is probably around Adrian. There was another way I took too coming that way which involved going through Howell and taking a back way to M-13. It might take a little more time but it's a lot less stressful than being on US-23.

[JREwing78]

But what does it take? I mean they should have known 20-25 years ago that US-23 and I-94 both should be widened.

If recent similar work in Wisconsin is any guide, wideninig US-23 between Toledo and Flint requires a sum in the neighborhood of $6-$10 Billion. Or, in other words, 2 to 3 years of the ENTIRE budget for all of MDOT. Oh, and that's *just* for the 90 or so miles of US-23 between the state line and Flint. Add another $3-$5 Billion to punch it up to the north I-475 exit.

I-94? We're looking at roughly 140-150 miles of upgrades (assuming we simply 6 lane the remaining 4-lane sections between Benton Harbor and Ypsilanti). Figure another $10-$15 Billion - which is the ENTIRE planned 5 year budget for MDOT, or one year of the Michigan general fund allotment.

Conspicuous by its absence in this discussion is I-96, which could use the same treatment. This has about 130 miles of 6-laning necessary - so another $9-$14 Billion.

US-131 between I-94 and M-46 in Cedar Springs - another 70 miles, including 10 miles of heavily urban area. Call it another $9-$12 Billion.

We're easily looking at $55 Billion, for only FOUR highways! The entire budget of the ENTIRE state government for one year? $82.5 Billion.

Let's say it takes us 20 years to do all of these projects. If inflation holds at current rates, now we're at $90 Billion. We have to come up with $4.5 Billion EXTRA per year to pull this off.

Our current fuel tax revenues bring in $1.5 Billion per year. We would need to quadruple the fuel taxes to pull it off. So, instead of 27 cents per gallon, we'll need $1.10 per gallon in fuel taxes - maybe more like $1.20 to $1.30 to fight off the sharp decline in fuel use once they hit.

Anyone standing in line to pay $4/gallon for gas again? I'm a f***ing weirdo who would be fine with it, actually, since it would mean a monumental improvement to traffic congestion and would bring considerable economic benefit. But I'm in a very small minority.