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Minor things that bother you

Started by planxtymcgillicuddy, November 27, 2019, 12:15:11 AM

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CtrlAltDel

Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 02:08:23 PMThat's fine.  You're entitled to you wrong opinion.  :awesomeface:

Well, you tried.  :-D

That said, I'm with kkt on this one.


Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2025, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 09:30:53 AMIt's the norm here too.  I'm sure there are other places that do striping the way Nebraska does, but I don't think it's common overall.  In my opinion, though, it's the right way.



See, I don't like that, because it makes the double lines too far apart. (It also means if you can't pass you also lose a few inches of lane width, although that doesn't really matter if the lane is full width.)

Neither situation is all that good here. The double solids are too far apart and the solid and dash are too close.
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vdeane

Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 10, 2025, 01:18:06 PMThat stuff is greasy and also stinks to high heaven.

I don't disagree.  But it gets rid of sticker residue.

So does Zep Big Orange.  When I worked in the returns department at a publishing company, that's what we used to remove price stickers from books during our refurbishing process.
It's also worth noting that, in this case, the angle of the windshield is the big impediment.  It hits the dashboard at such a shallow angle that there's a large swatch where there's only an inch or two of space between them, and that swath is right where the registration and inspection stickers are supposed to go.  The one time I tried to change my registration sticker on my own, I rubbed my knuckles raw in the process.  Even the dealer has a hard time getting it all off, and they have specialized tools for working in that small space!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: hbelkins on July 10, 2025, 01:18:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 01:02:55 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 09, 2025, 12:38:40 PMthey left a bunch of residue on the windshield
Quote from: vdeane on July 10, 2025, 12:57:57 PMI have no idea how I'm supposed to fix the aesthetics of my windshield

:hmmm:


That stuff is greasy and also stinks to high heaven.

It's what I use to get rid of P65 window stickers.  I just rub it onto a micro fiber cloth and gradually gets rid of the sticker gunk.

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2025, 09:03:32 PMSee, I don't like that, because it makes the double lines too far apart. (It also means if you can't pass you also lose a few inches of lane width, although that doesn't really matter if the lane is full width.)

You don't lose any lane width.  The highway stays the same size, no matter.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 10, 2025, 09:11:42 PMThe double solids are too far apart

Too far apart for what?

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 09:30:53 AM

Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 10, 2025, 08:51:31 PMAhh!  That striping technique hails from the days when the dashed line was required to be white.  Thusly, there were three paint heads on the machine. 

Doh!  There are still three heads on the line paint machine, it's just that they are now all spraying what we West Virginians call "State Road yaller".

kphoger

Quote from: kkt on July 10, 2025, 01:56:00 PMWhen there's one stripe or dashed line, it should be at the center.  When there are two stripes, the center of the road should be between them.

How is this possible?

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2025, 09:03:32 PMSee, I don't like that, because it makes the double lines too far apart. (It also means if you can't pass you also lose a few inches of lane width, although that doesn't really matter if the lane is full width.)

You don't lose any lane width.  The highway stays the same size, no matter.

It does if you try to drive between the lines.


Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 10:28:05 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 10, 2025, 09:11:42 PMThe double solids are too far apart

Too far apart for what?

The double solids are too far apart and the solid and dash are too close for efficiency and clarity as well as aesthetics. I would prefer something like this:



I-290   I-294   I-55   (I-74)   (I-72)   I-40   I-30   US-59   US-190   TX-30   TX-6

Scott5114

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 10, 2025, 11:56:34 PMIt does if you try to drive between the lines.

Which most people in most states try to do. Not mine, but most states.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

1995hoo

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 10, 2025, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 09:30:53 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2025, 04:20:36 AMDon't come to Spain then. Dashed lines not aligning is the norm here.

It's the norm here too.  I'm sure there are other places that do striping the way Nebraska does, but I don't think it's common overall.  In my opinion, though, it's the right way.



See, I don't like that, because it makes the double lines too far apart. (It also means if you can't pass you also lose a few inches of lane width, although that doesn't really matter if the lane is full width.)

I don't like it either, but for me the reason is the opposite: the dashed lines look like they're squeezed up too close to the solid lines in the areas where only one side is allowed to pass. Referring back to the two Street View links kphoger posted, I think the striping in the Kansas photo looks better than the striping in the Nebraska photo. No doubt part of that is because the former is how I am used to seeing such in Virginia. Here is a transition to a two-way passing zone a little further north on the same road, and yes, that is a rumble strip down the middle in both images, although it's less discernible in the first one. I do think if you're going to have a center rumble strip it is important that the center stripes be aligned with the rumble strip.

I remember when I was a little kid, almost certainly in the late 1970s, a stretch of NC-12 on Hatteras Island had a dashed line down the middle between two solid yellow lines. Even at that age I knew what the regular passing-zone lines meant because my father had explained it when I asked him why the lines were different than they were on the streets at home, but that particular stretch of NC-12 was unique. We decided they had probably had a two-way passing zone there, had to remove it as tourist traffic increased, and got lazy when they restriped it and just painted a new line on each side of the existing dashed line. I've never seen that sort of thing anywhere else.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

I don't know, guys...

If you have trouble staying between these lines, then you have driving problems that striping tweaks won't solve.

And if the meaning of this striping nearby isn't clear enough to you, then you have driving problems that striping tweaks won't solve.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 10, 2025, 11:56:34 PMI would prefer something like this:

[im
But that doesn't remove the minor thing that bothers me, which is what I've outlined in pink:


He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 09:14:55 AM....

And if the meaning of this striping nearby isn't clear enough to you, then you have driving problems that striping tweaks won't solve.

For me the issue there is simply the lines' appearance. To my eye, they're jammed up too close together and it's ugly.

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 09:14:55 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 10, 2025, 11:56:34 PMI would prefer something like this:

[im
But that doesn't remove the minor thing that bothers me, which is what I've outlined in pink:



To me, that's less of an issue than the lines being jammed up too close together. I guess from my point of view, the line(s) are "center striping" and thus should be as close as possible to the center of the road. If there is a dashed center line allowing passing from either direction, I feel it should be directly at the center of the pavement. If there are two lines, regardless of whether it is a passing zone or two solid lines, the lines should be to either side of the immediate center of the pavement because that is symmetrical. I suppose you could say that means that both lanes are always of the same width relative to each other, although that's not really the motivation behind my thought process on the issue.

Just a difference of opinion on what you and I consider to be more aesthetically acceptable, I suppose. Though I will acknowledge that I had not really thought much about this before because, other than in the image you linked and the graphic you posted, I have never seen center striping in the "Nebraska" configuration you posted in your earlier comment (that's one of the nine states I have yet to visit).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

formulanone

Quote from: vdeane on July 10, 2025, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 02:06:47 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 10, 2025, 01:18:06 PMThat stuff is greasy and also stinks to high heaven.

I don't disagree.  But it gets rid of sticker residue.

So does Zep Big Orange.  When I worked in the returns department at a publishing company, that's what we used to remove price stickers from books during our refurbishing process.
It's also worth noting that, in this case, the angle of the windshield is the big impediment.  It hits the dashboard at such a shallow angle that there's a large swatch where there's only an inch or two of space between them, and that swath is right where the registration and inspection stickers are supposed to go.  The one time I tried to change my registration sticker on my own, I rubbed my knuckles raw in the process.  Even the dealer has a hard time getting it all off, and they have specialized tools for working in that small space!

Some tool stores have razor scrapers with a 6-8" extensions, that's the typical piece of equipment I've seen in detail and reconditioning shops. You opt for ones with plastic blades which won't accidentally scrape the windshield or interior trim.

kphoger

See, to me, the dashed line means "this is the middle of the road", and a solid stripe means "you shouldn't pass from this side".  So, having the dashed and solid lines straddle the center of the roadway means, in my mind, that the dashed line is in the wrong place.

I suppose maybe this goes back to ...

Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 10, 2025, 10:29:20 PMThat striping technique hails from the days when the dashed line was required to be white.

... although I'm not old enough to remember it actually being a thing.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

In my mind, a double yellow is just this, with the dashed line removed:



So, if your side opens up to a passing zone, then simply eliminate the solid stripe on your side.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 10:09:32 AMIn my mind, a double yellow is just this, with the dashed line removed:



So, if your side opens up to a passing zone, then simply eliminate the solid stripe on your side.

That is almost exactly the type of center striping I was describing earlier on Hatteras Island in the 1970s except that there was more space between the solid lines and the dashed line in between them. I had never seen a picture of that type of striping, so thanks for posting that.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

hbelkins

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 09:54:20 AM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 10, 2025, 10:29:20 PMThat striping technique hails from the days when the dashed line was required to be white.

... although I'm not old enough to remember it actually being a thing.

I am. First time I ever saw only two yellow lines with no white line was returning from a family vacation to North Carolina in the very late 60s or early 70s. It was on US 23 in Virginia, just north of the Tennessee state line.

Although if there are any three-head center line paint sprayers in use today, they have to be ancient. The dashed white line hasn't been a thing in 50 years.
Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

GaryV

Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2025, 11:45:07 AMAlthough if there are any three-head center line paint sprayers in use today, they have to be ancient. The dashed white line hasn't been a thing in 50 years.

But if they just load yellow paint in all 3 hoppers ...

kphoger

Quote from: kkt on July 10, 2025, 01:56:00 PMWhen there's one stripe or dashed line, it should be at the center.  When there are two stripes, the center of the road should be between them.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 10:31:20 PMHow is this possible?

To clarify my question:  In order to both have a single line centered and also have two parallel lines straddle the center, isn't a three-head sprayer still required?

With typical two-head sprayers, you end up with something like this, where the single dashed line is off of center.

He Is Already Here! Let's Go, Flamingo!
Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances?
Deut 23:13
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: PKDIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kkt

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 12:18:33 PM
Quote from: kkt on July 10, 2025, 01:56:00 PMWhen there's one stripe or dashed line, it should be at the center.  When there are two stripes, the center of the road should be between them.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 10:31:20 PMHow is this possible?

To clarify my question:  In order to both have a single line centered and also have two parallel lines straddle the center, isn't a three-head sprayer still required?

With typical two-head sprayers, you end up with something like this, where the single dashed line is off of center.
Perhaps it would require a 3-head sprayer or perhaps it would be possible to move one operating sprayhead so it was centered over the middle of the road.  That is what I would like on an aesthetic level.

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: kkt on July 11, 2025, 02:32:45 PMPerhaps it would require a 3-head sprayer or perhaps it would be possible to move one operating sprayhead so it was centered over the middle of the road.  That is what I would like on an aesthetic level.

Paint trucks can get pretty sophisticated. See for example, here:
(The actual painting demonstration begins at about 1:15.)

There's even this:
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CtrlAltDel

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 09:14:55 AMI don't know, guys...

If you have trouble staying between these lines, then you have driving problems that striping tweaks won't solve.

And if the meaning of this striping nearby isn't clear enough to you, then you have driving problems that striping tweaks won't solve.

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 10, 2025, 11:56:34 PMI would prefer something like this:

[im
But that doesn't remove the minor thing that bothers me, which is what I've outlined in pink:



Well, no, since what you would prefer and what I would prefer are in conflict. That said, I could get behind there being something of a transition area in this situation.
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freebrickproductions

Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2025, 09:30:53 AMI'm sure there are other places that do striping the way Nebraska does, but I don't think it's common overall.

From my observations, these states all do the same as Nebraska:
-Mississippi
-Arkansas
-Texas
-Oregon
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

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Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 09:14:55 AMIf you have trouble staying between these lines, then you have driving problems that striping tweaks won't solve.

I have heard in rural Nevada it's common to just straddle the yellow line because that makes it easier to not go off the road at triple-digit speeds.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Dirt Roads

Quote from: kphoger on July 11, 2025, 09:14:55 AMIf you have trouble staying between these lines, then you have driving problems that striping tweaks won't solve.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 12, 2025, 02:06:01 AMI have heard in rural Nevada it's common to just straddle the yellow line because that makes it easier to not go off the road at triple-digit speeds.

Historically, West Virginians drove across the center line in every curve to round out and tack on another 5 MPH in speed.  The extra speed was also necessary to help avoid in the opposing lane doing the opposite manuever in the same curve (both vehicles manuevering at the same time).  Amazingly, I never ever heard of any head-on collisions in curves.  Cannot imagine anyone doing this today without tragic consequences.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 12, 2025, 10:56:38 AMHistorically, West Virginians drove across the center line in every curve to round out and tack on another 5 MPH in speed.  The extra speed was also necessary to help avoid in the opposing lane doing the opposite manuever in the same curve (both vehicles manuevering at the same time).  Amazingly, I never ever heard of any head-on collisions in curves.  Cannot imagine anyone doing this today without tragic consequences.

On the other hand, this same driving technique was used on narrow hilly roads without pavement striping.  There were plenty of occasions where folks ran off the road to avoid a sideswipe.  After I had graduated, my sisters were riding a school bus that "got run off the road" and got stuck in the mud alongside a 30-foot cliff above the creek.  After a few minutes, the bus flipped onto its side and braced up against a bunch trees suspended over the creek.  In the aftermath, it became clear that it was the bus driver that got a little too aggressive riding the inside of the curve (ergo, the other side of the road) and needed to overcompensate to avoid collision.



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