Wisconsin notes

[mgk920]

Would you rather they cut corners and perform shoddy work to get it done faster? The improvements are worth taking time to get it right. The eight-lane reconstructed freeway will be a boon to the corridor for many years to come.

This is a MAJOR 'dig it all out and start over from scratch' type of a project, starting with a well over half century old existing highway. The original freeway was built on the assumption that the rest of the system would also have been built out as planned, in which case this project would be much simpler, with only repaving the existing six lanes along with whatever other tweaks would be needed to bring it up the modern interstate standards.

Mike

[Revive 755]

What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

• Being farther south, Indianapolis gets a slightly longer construction season?
• INDOT is more willing to completely close freeways than the Wisconsin DOT?

[thspfc]

What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

What would be some examples of recent projects in Indy that were as large as the Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, and N-S Freeway rebuilds?

[SEWIGuy]

All the major construction projects in the Milwaukee area over the last decade or so, including widening I-94 from the state line north, rebuilding the I-894-94-43-41 interchange on the south side, the Marquette Interchange rebuild, rebuilding the Zoo Interchange, and widening I-43 on the north side, have resulted in well-designed, functional improvements in my opinion. What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

1. To make sure that the corridor is still relatively usable during that timeframe.
2. With other major projects going on around the state at the same time, spreading the payments over multiple years.

[mgk920]

Also it might be in part due to the raw availability of labor, equipment, materials and money to do the work.  Remember that WisDOT is also in the midst of a multi-year project to add a lane in each direction to I-41 from Appleton to De Pere, a project that could have easily been sped up by a couple of years.

Mike

[jhuntin1]

What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

What would be some examples of recent projects in Indy that were as large as the Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, and N-S Freeway rebuilds?

Several I can think of:

• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange
• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild
• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just genuinely curious why similar projects in Milwaukee seem to take so long. I appreciate the answers others have provided above.

[JREwing78]

Just to give an idea, the 40+ mile section of I-39/90 was a "dig it all out and start over from scratch" program. It took WisDOT between 2014 and 2022 to complete, starting with the replacement Hwy 11/Racine St interchange in Janesville, and ending with reconstruction of US-14 around the I-39/90 interchange on the NE side of Janesville.

Between the Beltline and the state line, we had the Rock River bridge reconstruction, the massive NE Janesville Hwy 26 and US-14 interchange (4 lanes in each direction + 2 lane C/D lanes each way), and the enormous I-43 interchange flying over a new Hwy 81 diverging diamond interchange.

All told, it clocked in at $1,163 billion dollars to construct. This doesn't include the 50 miles of Hwy 26 reconstruction and widening between I-39/90 and Hwy 60 put in place prior to that, which added another $50 million to the tab.

*****

The I-94 E-W reconstruction is slated to come in at $1.65 billion for 3.5 miles of mainline I-94 (and considerable amounts of off-mainline work), including 43 bridges (and the entire Stadium Interchange). It is expected to be complete in 2033. More: https://www.94eastwest.wisconsindot.gov/

I-39/90/94 reconstruction is expected to come in at $3.7 billion and take 20 years. More: https://wisconsindot.gov/pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/default.aspx

[SEWIGuy]

Also it might be in part due to the raw availability of labor, equipment, materials and money to do the work.  Remember that WisDOT is also in the midst of a multi-year project to add a lane in each direction to I-41 from Appleton to De Pere, a project that could have easily been sped up by a couple of years.

Mike

Great points.

[thspfc]

• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange

That costed $350 million. Zoo Interchange? $1.7 billion. So no, not similar. Unless you don't think cost is a good proxy for the degree of complexity of a highway project.

• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild

I will give you this one; I-69 section 6 construction costed $2.06 billion and took 6 years. I-43 north of downtown costed $550 million and took 3. Can't find the info for 43/94 south of downtown.

• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild

That just started. No chicken counting.

[The Ghostbuster]

So far, the only proposed project on 43/94 between the Airport and Marquette Interchanges is a reconfiguration of the National Ave. interchange: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/43nationalstudy/default.aspx.

[on_wisconsin]

Chough, Milwaukee Area Freeways thread, cough

[jhuntin1]

Quote from: jhuntin1 on 10/19/2025, 1:49:42 PM
• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange
That costed $350 million. Zoo Interchange? $1.7 billion. So no, not similar. Unless you don't think cost is a good proxy for the degree of complexity of a highway project.Quote

• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild
I will give you this one; I-69 section 6 construction costed $2.06 billion and took 6 years. I-43 north of downtown costed $550 million and took 3. Can't find the info for 43/94 south of downtown.Quote

• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild
That just started. No chicken counting.

I listed projects of similar scope. The I-65 project is 5 miles of adding another lane of travel in both directions in an urban area that will be done in two years and cost less. It also has many fewer bridge replacements and lacks an interchange reconstruction.I am not interested in arguing, nor am I saying that INDOT is awesome and WisDOT sucks. I am trying to use what perspective I have combined with the useful information that people are sharing to gain insight into the complex realities of why projects in Wisconsin seem to take longer than I would expect.

[thspfc]

Quote from: jhuntin1 on 10/19/2025, 1:49:42 PM

• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange

That costed $350 million. Zoo Interchange? $1.7 billion. So no, not similar. Unless you don't think cost is a good proxy for the degree of complexity of a highway project.Quote

• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild

I will give you this one; I-69 section 6 construction costed $2.06 billion and took 6 years. I-43 north of downtown costed $550 million and took 3. Can't find the info for 43/94 south of downtown.Quote

• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild

That just started. No chicken counting.

I listed projects of similar scope.

Do you think physical scope is a better indicator than cost, when it comes to the degree of undertaking of a project?

The I-65 project is 5 miles of adding another lane of travel in both directions

How does the confinement of the space compare to I-94 in Milwaukee? How do the interchanges compare? The overpasses? The topography? . . .

It also has many fewer bridge replacements and lacks an interchange reconstruction.

Right.

that will be done in two years

We'll see. It might.

and cost less.

That's cool. I don't think any of us are in a position to tell WISDOT what their projects should cost. If I-94 takes longer and is more expensive it's because either a) it's more complex or b) the finished product will be better. From my experience with WISDOT's recent major projects and (limited) experience with Indiana roads, I would bet on both.


this [/list] tag is refusing to be deleted.