Wisconsin notes

[thspfc]

What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

What would be some examples of recent projects in Indy that were as large as the Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, and N-S Freeway rebuilds?

[SEWIGuy]

All the major construction projects in the Milwaukee area over the last decade or so, including widening I-94 from the state line north, rebuilding the I-894-94-43-41 interchange on the south side, the Marquette Interchange rebuild, rebuilding the Zoo Interchange, and widening I-43 on the north side, have resulted in well-designed, functional improvements in my opinion. What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

1. To make sure that the corridor is still relatively usable during that timeframe.
2. With other major projects going on around the state at the same time, spreading the payments over multiple years.

[mgk920]

Also it might be in part due to the raw availability of labor, equipment, materials and money to do the work.  Remember that WisDOT is also in the midst of a multi-year project to add a lane in each direction to I-41 from Appleton to De Pere, a project that could have easily been sped up by a couple of years.

Mike

[jhuntin1]

What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

What would be some examples of recent projects in Indy that were as large as the Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, and N-S Freeway rebuilds?

Several I can think of:

• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange
• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild
• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just genuinely curious why similar projects in Milwaukee seem to take so long. I appreciate the answers others have provided above.

[JREwing78]

Just to give an idea, the 40+ mile section of I-39/90 was a "dig it all out and start over from scratch" program. It took WisDOT between 2014 and 2022 to complete, starting with the replacement Hwy 11/Racine St interchange in Janesville, and ending with reconstruction of US-14 around the I-39/90 interchange on the NE side of Janesville.

Between the Beltline and the state line, we had the Rock River bridge reconstruction, the massive NE Janesville Hwy 26 and US-14 interchange (4 lanes in each direction + 2 lane C/D lanes each way), and the enormous I-43 interchange flying over a new Hwy 81 diverging diamond interchange.

All told, it clocked in at $1,163 billion dollars to construct. This doesn't include the 50 miles of Hwy 26 reconstruction and widening between I-39/90 and Hwy 60 put in place prior to that, which added another $50 million to the tab.

*****

The I-94 E-W reconstruction is slated to come in at $1.65 billion for 3.5 miles of mainline I-94 (and considerable amounts of off-mainline work), including 43 bridges (and the entire Stadium Interchange). It is expected to be complete in 2033. More: https://www.94eastwest.wisconsindot.gov/

I-39/90/94 reconstruction is expected to come in at $3.7 billion and take 20 years. More: https://wisconsindot.gov/pages/projects/by-region/sw/399094/default.aspx

[SEWIGuy]

Also it might be in part due to the raw availability of labor, equipment, materials and money to do the work.  Remember that WisDOT is also in the midst of a multi-year project to add a lane in each direction to I-41 from Appleton to De Pere, a project that could have easily been sped up by a couple of years.

Mike

Great points.

[thspfc]

• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange

That costed $350 million. Zoo Interchange? $1.7 billion. So no, not similar. Unless you don't think cost is a good proxy for the degree of complexity of a highway project.

• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild

I will give you this one; I-69 section 6 construction costed $2.06 billion and took 6 years. I-43 north of downtown costed $550 million and took 3. Can't find the info for 43/94 south of downtown.

• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild

That just started. No chicken counting.

[The Ghostbuster]

So far, the only proposed project on 43/94 between the Airport and Marquette Interchanges is a reconfiguration of the National Ave. interchange: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/43nationalstudy/default.aspx.

[on_wisconsin]

Chough, Milwaukee Area Freeways thread, cough

[jhuntin1]

Quote from: jhuntin1 on 10/19/2025, 1:49:42 PM
• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange
That costed $350 million. Zoo Interchange? $1.7 billion. So no, not similar. Unless you don't think cost is a good proxy for the degree of complexity of a highway project.Quote

• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild
I will give you this one; I-69 section 6 construction costed $2.06 billion and took 6 years. I-43 north of downtown costed $550 million and took 3. Can't find the info for 43/94 south of downtown.Quote

• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild
That just started. No chicken counting.

I listed projects of similar scope. The I-65 project is 5 miles of adding another lane of travel in both directions in an urban area that will be done in two years and cost less. It also has many fewer bridge replacements and lacks an interchange reconstruction.I am not interested in arguing, nor am I saying that INDOT is awesome and WisDOT sucks. I am trying to use what perspective I have combined with the useful information that people are sharing to gain insight into the complex realities of why projects in Wisconsin seem to take longer than I would expect.

[thspfc]

Quote from: jhuntin1 on 10/19/2025, 1:49:42 PM

• the I-465/I-69 interchange rebuild on the northeast side of town (see Clear Path 465), similar to Zoo Interchange

That costed $350 million. Zoo Interchange? $1.7 billion. So no, not similar. Unless you don't think cost is a good proxy for the degree of complexity of a highway project.Quote

• building I-69 from Martinsville to I-465 (see I-69 Finish Line), comparable to N-S Freeway rebuild

I will give you this one; I-69 section 6 construction costed $2.06 billion and took 6 years. I-43 north of downtown costed $550 million and took 3. Can't find the info for 43/94 south of downtown.Quote

• adding new lanes to I-65 on the south side (see I-65 Safety & Efficiency), similar to I-94 widening/rebuild

That just started. No chicken counting.

I listed projects of similar scope.

Do you think physical scope is a better indicator than cost, when it comes to the degree of undertaking of a project?

The I-65 project is 5 miles of adding another lane of travel in both directions

How does the confinement of the space compare to I-94 in Milwaukee? How do the interchanges compare? The overpasses? The topography? . . .

It also has many fewer bridge replacements and lacks an interchange reconstruction.

Right.

that will be done in two years

We'll see. It might.

and cost less.

That's cool. I don't think any of us are in a position to tell WISDOT what their projects should cost. If I-94 takes longer and is more expensive it's because either a) it's more complex or b) the finished product will be better. From my experience with WISDOT's recent major projects and (limited) experience with Indiana roads, I would bet on both.


this [/list] tag is refusing to be deleted.

[paulthemapguy]

All the major construction projects in the Milwaukee area over the last decade or so, including widening I-94 from the state line north, rebuilding the I-894-94-43-41 interchange on the south side, the Marquette Interchange rebuild, rebuilding the Zoo Interchange, and widening I-43 on the north side, have resulted in well-designed, functional improvements in my opinion. What I don't understand is why they take so long. Indianapolis has had many of the same types of construction projects and they get done in much less time. Why on earth is this project going to take seven years?

There might be a little bit of nonsensical sensationalism on the part of the news outlet (what's new). That sensationalism comes in the form of taking this whole package deal and calling it a "7-year nightmare." (But they add a question mark so their dubious claim looks like an innocent question.) With the volume of work slated for the corridor, it's unfair to call this one project. It will probably be anywhere from 5 to 30 different construction contracts with various start and completion dates falling within the next seven years. That means that, at any given time, impacts will not necessarily encompass the entire corridor.  I'm comparing this situation to the Interstate 80 rebuild in Joliet, which I drive to work every day. Work has gone on in the area for the last 3 or 4 years, and the work will likely continue for another few years. But they have to spend a couple years rebuilding bridges over the Interstate to allow the expanded pavement width to go underneath. After that, the pavement widening takes place, with interchange reconstructions following as well. So it might not sound as insane if you think of the work to reconstruct this corridor as a series of smaller projects in the same area that begin and end at different times. I do still have to wonder, though, how long they expect Milwaukee to weather that reduction to two lanes in each direction. That's rough.

[The Ghostbuster]

The real trick will be reconstructing Interstate 94 through the cemeteries, since that is the narrowest segment.

[JREwing78]

WPR reporter is looking to speak with folks who have had the misfortune of getting pulled over for speeding in Rosendale. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/wisconsin/comments/1peb6lh/wpr_story_on_rosendales_reputation_for_handing/

WPR story on Rosendale's reputation for handing out speeding tickets

Hi everyone — I'm a reporter with Wisconsin Public Radio working on a feature for our Wisconsin Life series about Rosendale's long-running reputation as a "speed trap."

I'm looking to interview a few people who have been ticketed in Rosendale at any point in the last several years and are willing to briefly share their experience for the story.

If you're interested, please email me at joe.schulz@wpr.org and we can set up a time to talk.

Thanks for considering, and I appreciate any help!

[The Ghostbuster]

There is a simple solution: DON'T SPEED!

[tchafe1978]

Or avoid going through Rosendale by taking US 151 and I-41 instead.

[mgk920]

Or avoid going through Rosendale by taking US 151 and I-41 instead.

WisDOT hasn't signed WI 26 between Oshkosh and Waupun as the 'main' route for well over a decade now, favoring the US 151 routing via Fond du Lac, instead.  This is ostensibly intended to (try to) remove through traffic from that street in Rosendale (I have long called upon WisDOT to build a bypass there).  The long-term known speed trap there (yes, it was one) relaxed considerably ever since the city's police chief retired 15 or so years ago.  WI 26 remains the major route between Madison and the Fox Valley, anyways.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

[Molandfreak]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

Who cares? A high-speed flyover in FDL should be the priority, Rosendale is a lost cause.

[mgk920]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

Throughout the late 20th century, I was thinking a west bypass. I am even a bit now, as WI 26 traffic there has really not gone down much with US 151's completion as a four lane rural expressway.

Mike

[mgk920]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

Who cares? A high-speed flyover in FDL should be the priority, Rosendale is a lost cause.

Even now, most NE WI locals use WI 26 to get to Madison and points south and southwest, even with WisDOT's signage changes to the contrary.  That straight shot on the map is that irresistible.  A 'complete' freeway to freeway interchange on FdL's south side is a no brainer there, but that straight shot on the map . . .

Mike

[Molandfreak]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

Who cares? A high-speed flyover in FDL should be the priority, Rosendale is a lost cause.

Even now, most NE WI locals use WI 26 to get to Madison and points south and southwest, even with WisDOT's signage changes to the contrary.  That straight shot on the map is that irresistible.  A 'complete' freeway to freeway interchange on FdL's south side is a no brainer there, but that straight shot on the map . . .

Mike

Stop marking it red on the official highway map. Destroy the flyover and leave the simple diamond interchange at 151. Make CTH-T and CTH-TC all-way stops. There's so much they can do to clarify that STH-26 is for local traffic at this point.

[TheCatalyst31]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

Who cares? A high-speed flyover in FDL should be the priority, Rosendale is a lost cause.

Even now, most NE WI locals use WI 26 to get to Madison and points south and southwest, even with WisDOT's signage changes to the contrary.  That straight shot on the map is that irresistible.  A 'complete' freeway to freeway interchange on FdL's south side is a no brainer there, but that straight shot on the map . . .

Mike

Stop marking it red on the official highway map. Destroy the flyover and leave the simple diamond interchange at 151. Make CTH-T and CTH-TC all-way stops. There's so much they can do to clarify that STH-26 is for local traffic at this point.

Right now, if I go to Google Maps to get a route from Madison to Green Bay, it still tells me to use WIS 26. If I change the route to go through Fond du Lac, though, it's only two minutes longer. I suspect that if WisDOT really wants to cut down on traffic through Rosendale, they need to speed up the Fondy route and/or slow down the WIS 26 route just a little bit to flip those numbers, since so many people just go by whatever their GPS or favorite mapping tool tells them.

(Oddly enough, Google doesn't suggest US 151 to I-41 as an alternate route, but it does suggest much longer alternate routes like I-94 to I-43. As usual, the title of our Google Maps thread isn't wrong.)

[Molandfreak]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

Who cares? A high-speed flyover in FDL should be the priority, Rosendale is a lost cause.

Even now, most NE WI locals use WI 26 to get to Madison and points south and southwest, even with WisDOT's signage changes to the contrary.  That straight shot on the map is that irresistible.  A 'complete' freeway to freeway interchange on FdL's south side is a no brainer there, but that straight shot on the map . . .

Mike

Stop marking it red on the official highway map. Destroy the flyover and leave the simple diamond interchange at 151. Make CTH-T and CTH-TC all-way stops. There's so much they can do to clarify that STH-26 is for local traffic at this point.

Right now, if I go to Google Maps to get a route from Madison to Green Bay, it still tells me to use WIS 26. If I change the route to go through Fond du Lac, though, it's only two minutes longer. I suspect that if WisDOT really wants to cut down on traffic through Rosendale, they need to speed up the Fondy route and/or slow down the WIS 26 route just a little bit to flip those numbers, since so many people just go by whatever their GPS or favorite mapping tool tells them.

(Oddly enough, Google doesn't suggest US 151 to I-41 as an alternate route, but it does suggest much longer alternate routes like I-94 to I-43. As usual, the title of our Google Maps thread isn't wrong.)

Sure, and there's various things they can do before the US 151 interchange is upgraded to encourage long-distance traffic to stay out of Rosendale. Implement those four-way stops I suggested, lower the speed limit to 50, even reset the traffic light in Rosendale to favor STH-23 traffic.

[SEWIGuy]

If a bypass was ever built around Rosendale (assuming one was warranted), would it be more practical to build an eastern bypass or a western bypass?

Who cares? A high-speed flyover in FDL should be the priority, Rosendale is a lost cause.

Even now, most NE WI locals use WI 26 to get to Madison and points south and southwest, even with WisDOT's signage changes to the contrary.  That straight shot on the map is that irresistible.  A 'complete' freeway to freeway interchange on FdL's south side is a no brainer there, but that straight shot on the map . . .

Mike

Stop marking it red on the official highway map. Destroy the flyover and leave the simple diamond interchange at 151. Make CTH-T and CTH-TC all-way stops. There's so much they can do to clarify that STH-26 is for local traffic at this point.

It's cute that you think people use maps.