New York State Thruway

[webny99]

Not just Fridays... it was every afternoon last week, and today the backups started by 10AM and lasted until around 4. It's basically a slightly more condensed version of last year's EB zipper merge for the bridge replacements. Impacts in Victor have been bad at times but varied quite a bit, presumably based on how visible the backup is from Exit 29.

Interesting; I was there last Sunday (7/19) at 12:45 and everything was moving fine.  I think the whole climbing lane up the hill was still there and everything, so there should be much more room to merge than at 44.  It doesn't hurt that the lanes merge back quicker and then you're out of the work zone, while WB is a work zone the whole way.

It does seem to be getting better with time, perhaps as more Thruway drivers adjust to using the left lane. I also wonder if it depends on whether the work zone is active or not, since there are backups in both directions this morning, while Mon-Wed this week haven't been bad, even during afternoon rush hour.

That still doesn't explain last Saturday, but Saturday mornings do see a large surge of traffic between 9AM and noon which could have been enough to kick off a perpetual backup. There's also the fact that Saturday morning traffic is mostly day or weekend-trippers, not commuters, meaning they were (a) encountering the work zone for the first time, (b) not expecting a large backup, and (c) traveling beyond Exit 44. All three factors make it less likely that they would consider Exit 29.

That also explains why traffic in Victor seemed to go in waves: as soon as the backup reached Exit 29, traffic would start getting off, which would then shorten the backup to where it was no longer visible, which would then cause traffic not to consider Exit 29, which would then cause the backup to worsen again, and the cycle repeats.

[vdeane]

I noticed the message signs on the Thruway in Schenectady this morning showed that Exit 25 is scheduled to be closed overnight on August 4.  I don't see anything about why.  Do they need to close the exit completely for 8 hours to activate the new toll gantry on the ramp?

I noticed that it's only EB VMS signs that have that message.  Maybe it's a bridge inspection?

[webny99]

Because the other thing that happened around that time is the Thruway going AET.  Without the toll barrier at exit 24 to meter the traffic somewhat, it seems like that just makes congestion on the Northway worse. [...] So I guess exit 45 isn't the only one that altered congestion patterns on the local highways when the Thruway went AET.

I-190 NB approaching the South Grand Island Bridge is another example of this. There never used to be congestion because the toll barrier metered the traffic, but now, afternoon backups are a regular occurrence on weekdays. And on summer Thursdays/Fridays, traffic can even back up to I-190 Exit 15 and onto the I-290 mainline.

Ironic that we're discovering belatedly that toll barriers were a great way to meter traffic at choke points.

I decided last weekend that the EB Thruway heading east out of Buffalo also qualifies for this. The Williamsville toll barrier used to meter traffic somewhat, but with traffic flowing freely through Exit 50 with an extra-long acceleration lane from I-290, traffic gets dense enough that it's often not possible to set the cruise until after Exit 49. Last weekend (Sunday afternoon, 4-5 PM), traffic was so heavy that there were no cruise setting opportunities until past {i]Pembroke[/i] - more than 20 miles with constant trucks/slower cars in the right lane and faster cohorts rubber-banding on the left.

[Rothman]

Because the other thing that happened around that time is the Thruway going AET.  Without the toll barrier at exit 24 to meter the traffic somewhat, it seems like that just makes congestion on the Northway worse. [...] So I guess exit 45 isn't the only one that altered congestion patterns on the local highways when the Thruway went AET.

I-190 NB approaching the South Grand Island Bridge is another example of this. There never used to be congestion because the toll barrier metered the traffic, but now, afternoon backups are a regular occurrence on weekdays. And on summer Thursdays/Fridays, traffic can even back up to I-190 Exit 15 and onto the I-290 mainline.

Ironic that we're discovering belatedly that toll barriers were a great way to meter traffic at choke points.

I decided last weekend that the EB Thruway heading east out of Buffalo also qualifies for this. The Williamsville toll barrier used to meter traffic somewhat, but with traffic flowing freely through Exit 50 with an extra-long acceleration lane from I-290, traffic gets dense enough that it's often not possible to set the cruise until after Exit 49. Last weekend (Sunday afternoon, 4-5 PM), traffic was so heavy that there were no cruise setting opportunities until past {i]Pembroke[/i] - more than 20 miles with constant trucks/slower cars in the right lane and faster cohorts rubber-banding on the left.

Wasn't something happening at the Bills' new stadium this past weekend?

[webny99]

I decided last weekend that the EB Thruway heading east out of Buffalo also qualifies for this. The Williamsville toll barrier used to meter traffic somewhat, but with traffic flowing freely through Exit 50 with an extra-long acceleration lane from I-290, traffic gets dense enough that it's often not possible to set the cruise until after Exit 49. Last weekend (Sunday afternoon, 4-5 PM), traffic was so heavy that there were no cruise setting opportunities until past Pembroke - more than 20 miles with constant trucks/slower cars in the right lane and faster cohorts rubber-banding on the left.

Wasn't something happening at the Bills' new stadium this past weekend?

Yes, the annual Return of the Blue & Red on Saturday night was the unofficial "opening" of the new stadium. That likely added some weekend traffic returning eastward, but 50 to 49 becoming more of a slog is something I've been noticing for a while.

[roadman65]

I saw an over height semi stuck an overpass in Nyack, NY and flipped itself and landed sideways.  The driver was okay but, got cited for his vehicle being over 13'6".

Plus, he hit a parked Toyota on the shoulder injuring the driver of that vehicle.

[Rothman]

I saw an over height semi stuck an overpass in Nyack, NY and flipped itself and landed sideways.  The driver was okay but, got cited for his vehicle being over 13'6".

Plus, he hit a parked Toyota on the shoulder injuring the driver of that vehicle.

You were there or saw a news story about it?

[kalvado]

I saw an over height semi stuck an overpass in Nyack, NY and flipped itself and landed sideways.  The driver was okay but, got cited for his vehicle being over 13'6".

Plus, he hit a parked Toyota on the shoulder injuring the driver of that vehicle.

Oh shit ... We call it "Wednesday"!

[roadman65]

I saw an over height semi stuck an overpass in Nyack, NY and flipped itself and landed sideways.  The driver was okay but, got cited for his vehicle being over 13'6".

Plus, he hit a parked Toyota on the shoulder injuring the driver of that vehicle.

You were there or saw a news story about it?

Saw the dash cam of the vehicle behind the semi of the accident unfolding.

Finding out about the fate of the driver was in the news as well as the the fate of the other driver.

[02 Park Ave]

The price of E-85 fuel at the Sloatsburg Service Area is $2.79 per gallon.

[vdeane]

I saw on Sunday that the Thruway finally replaced the EB 1 mile advance for exit 27 as well.

[vdeane]

Twice this past week it seems there was a crash at the eastern lane shift (the one near the toll gantry) for the exit 39-40 reconstruction.  Seems like it's a prime incident location.  That said, I can see why it's come up again, even though in my mind, it feels like it was just done.  The westbound lane around exit 39 feels like the bad part of I-88.

They also replaced the missing sign approaching exit 25, so it looks like all three of those missing guide signs have been replaced.

[02 Park Ave]

Does anyone know what all of that police activity on the Thruway in Rockland County was all about yesterday?  So many entrances were blocked off too.

[vdeane]

I emailed the Thruway about the new toll gantries for exits 25 and 25A.  They're currently in the testing phase and should go live by the end of summer.  When they do, this section will indeed be absorbed into the virtual ticket system, making it one system from exits 24 to 34A, and decreasing toll processing times to be the same as the rest of the Thruway.

It's October and I haven't heard anything more on this.  My tolls for my drive on 9/21 posted within the past couple of days and it's the same as always.  I wonder what the new timetable is.

[kalvado]

Happy new year, here is your gift of  5% tolls increase is happening on January 1st.
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/gas-prices-rise-new-york-state-thruway-tolls-22466269.php
Not surprising at all though.

[Rothman]

Happy new year, here is your gift of  5% tolls increase is happening on January 1st.
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/gas-prices-rise-new-york-state-thruway-tolls-22466269.php
Not surprising at all though.

I applied for a job with the Thruway once.  Still wonder if I was turned down because they suspected I'd ask too many questions about where all the money was going.  I mean, has regulation of public authorities really changed that much in NY since the Robert Moses days?  Last I heard, directors still are adamant about public authorities in NY being autonomous.

(personal opinion emphasized...feeling more cynical than usual today...)

[kalvado]

Happy new year, here is your gift of  5% tolls increase is happening on January 1st.
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/gas-prices-rise-new-york-state-thruway-tolls-22466269.php
Not surprising at all though.

I applied for a job with the Thruway once.  Still wonder if I was turned down because they suspected I'd ask too many questions about where all the money was going.  I mean, has regulation of public authorities really changed that much in NY since the Robert Moses days?  Last I heard, directors still are adamant about public authorities in NY being autonomous.

(personal opinion emphasized...feeling more cynical than usual today...)

Agreed, they are an interesting setup.
Their budget is online and didn't look crazy last time I checked.
And to answer.. Right now their money goes towards new Tappan Zee bridge loans...

[vdeane]

Meanwhile, the effort to update the tolling around exit 25A still hasn't happened.  "End of summer" my ass.  I was out there last week getting updated photo coverage for my site and however long I took on I-88 to get to exit 24 and back wasn't long enough to register that I used exit 25A, so that toll didn't register (silver lining: that made it easy to verify that this wasn't activated yet).  And then on the way back, they didn't read my E-ZPass and billed my plate instead, and even though that went to my E-ZPass account, they still charged me the bill by mail rate for it (this should be illegal; it's not my fault their shoddy equipment didn't work!).  All in all, what should have cost me 28 cents in total cost $1.16 thanks to all this! 

I'm really starting to hate the Thruway Authority.  From their boneheaded AET implementation that continues to mis-charge tolls if you even look at a gantry wrong to taking forever to replace fallen signs to the lack of town/county signage (and refusal to install it) along with how congested it's gotten on the weekends (I've had to start taking extra vacation time to avoid peak travel days because even minor crashes cause significant stop and go traffic, and they don't care if a daytime construction lane closure causes such, either), to the fact that they engage in transponder discrimination (even though I'm not usually affected), I'm liking them less every year.

[lstone19]

I'm really starting to hate the Thruway Authority.  From their boneheaded AET implementation that continues to mis-charge tolls if you even look at a gantry wrong to taking forever to replace fallen signs to the lack of town/county signage (and refusal to install it) along with how congested it's gotten on the weekends (I've had to start taking extra vacation time to avoid peak travel days because even minor crashes cause significant stop and go traffic, and they don't care if a daytime construction lane closure causes such, either), to the fact that they engage in transponder discrimination (even though I'm not usually affected), I'm liking them less every year.

Somewhere the Thruway went from being the gold standard in how to run a toll road to the disaster it is today.

Most of my EZ-Pass usage is in Illinois (I have both an Illinois and an NYSTA EZ-Pass - the NYSTA one due to to the transponder discrimination you mentioned as I am on the Thruway every few years but when there, on it a fair amount). While there are many things I don't like about the Illinois Tollway, they do get I-Pass (their name for EZ-Pass) right. When I'm there, I'm in a rental car but bring my own transponder. I usually don't register the plate since so long as the transponder reads, they'll never look at the license plate. But one time about a year ago, I saw a toll had not posted. I quickly added the license plate and a week later (when they run the violations since people without transponders have a week to pay), it matched to the license plate and my I-Pass account was charged and at the I-Pass rate (not the higher non-transponder rate as you said NYSTA charged you).

Similarly, living in Nevada now, I have a California FasTrak for our four or five trips a year to the Bay Area. I had issues with one of our cars and finding a good location for the transponder (I think I have that solved now) but they always posted by license plate at the regular rate (and one time where I had an issue in a car pool lane where we qualified for a car pool discount but it didn't read, all it took was a quick phone call to get it corrected).

[vdeane]

I have both an Illinois and an NYSTA EZ-Pass - the NYSTA one due to to the transponder discrimination you mentioned as I am on the Thruway every few years but when there, on it a fair amount

Given that Illinois has switched to sticker transponders, how do you plan to handle this going forward?

Somewhere the Thruway went from being the gold standard in how to run a toll road to the disaster it is today.

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (with only the Indiana Toll Road being worse).  As much as we like to make fun of the Pennsylvania Turnpike and how they have a ton of breezewoods and take forever to build anything, at least they do build stuff.  I'm convinced that the Thruway would forever remain fossilized in their current state if left to their own devices; pretty much every change in the past decade has been pushed by the governor.  I expect that even interchange reconfigurations like exit 31 will probably end up being pushed by NYSDOT rather than NYSTA.

(personal opinion)

[Jim]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

[kalvado]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

Exit 24 is a mess, but is there any low hanging fruit for reconfiguration?
I can see direct free 87 to Thruway 87 as a most worthwhile step - but whatever it is, cheap it isn't.

[Jim]

^^ It seems to me that making the EB left lane exit only and the middle lane having an option to exit or not would be better than having everyone squeeze into the left lane then split into 2.  Just some paint and sign updates?  On the other hand, the way it is now, I am confident I can breeze past the people stacking up in the left lane and pretty close to every time there's plenty of room to slide in where the left lane splits.

[webny99]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

I'd also add the apparent total lack of interest in a long term plan for interchange improvements or mainline widening post-AET.

I do wonder if anything will ever become of the Comprehensive Safety Action Plan (CSAP). Whoever is responsible for handling the public feedback portion will certainly have their hands full.

[kalvado]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

I'd also add the apparent total lack of interest in a long term plan for interchange improvements or mainline widening post-AET.

I do wonder if anything will ever become of the Comprehensive Safety Action Plan (CSAP). Whoever is responsible for handling the public feedback portion will certainly have their hands full.

New Tappan Zee did eat a lot of money, and Cuomo didn't want to raise tolls. Right now they are borrowing heavily to service those debts.