Ground broken on future I-781 in NY

[cu2010]

The official groundbreaking ceremony for the new 4.5 mile Fort Drum connector road, also known as future Interstate 781, took place today.  Estimated completion is fall 2012.

Official story from WWNY-TV (with video) here.

Hopefully the new highway will help ease traffic along NY342 and US11 between I-81 and the Fort Drum gate...

[Alex]

Is there a project map available for viewing online?

[froggie]

Dig around NYSDOT's website...the project webpage may still be online.

[cu2010]

Here's the official project webpage from NYSDOT. Maps can be found by clicking on "Location", with clickable tags showing before-and-after renderings of the various areas.

It looks like the interchange with US11 will be a SPUI.  Note the shield error in the rendering of the interchange!

[mgk920]

From the maps on that site, it doesn't look like it would all that hard to further extend that highway to the northeast if/when that becomes attractive, making the part by US 11 and towards the base gate a tiny spur off of that.

Mike

[vdeane]

Personally I'm wondering what the DOT will be doing with the I-81 interchange at NY 342.  The loop for the I-781 interchange looks awfully close to it.

[cu2010]

From the maps on that site, it doesn't look like it would all that hard to further extend that highway to the northeast if/when that becomes attractive, making the part by US 11 and towards the base gate a tiny spur off of that.

I've been thinking the same thing...I wonder if I-781 could be a first overall phase of the proposed Interstate 98 corridor. It seems like it would be easy enough to integrate it into I-98...

Personally I'm wondering what the DOT will be doing with the I-81 interchange at NY 342.  The loop for the I-781 interchange looks awfully close to it.

I wouldn't be surprised if they just eventually demolish it. It's not like 342 will be needed as a connector route anymore (since most traffic exiting there is heading for 11 anyways)...the only reason I could think to keep it is for access to 37 towards Ogdensburg...but traffic for Ogdensburg is better off exiting at Alex Bay anyways and taking 12, or alternately by using 411 by Theresa.

Heck, even heading to Potsdam I sometimes exit off at Theresa anyways, since there's a nice, time-saving (and traffic-avoiding) shortcut that way.

[Alps]

Personally I'm wondering what the DOT will be doing with the I-81 interchange at NY 342.  The loop for the I-781 interchange looks awfully close to it.

Could add one more ramp from I-81 SB to I-781 WB, and then simply have the 342 ramp come off of that instead.

[Duke87]

No need to remove the 342 interchange completely. Making it into a half interchange (NB off/SB on) would avoid any weaving issues..

[Stephane Dumas]

No need to remove the 342 interchange completely. Making it into a half interchange (NB off/SB on) would avoid any weaving issues..

Maybe it might be a bit exagerated and/or expensive, how about a C-D system between I-781 and NY-342?

[Snappyjack]

No need to remove the 342 interchange completely. Making it into a half interchange (NB off/SB on) would avoid any weaving issues..

Maybe it might be a bit exagerated and/or expensive, how about a C-D system between I-781 and NY-342?

That's what I was thinking as well.

[Fixed mangled quote. -S.]

[yakra]

No need to remove the 342 interchange completely. Making it into a half interchange (NB off/SB on) would avoid any weaving issues..

Maybe it might be a bit exagerated and/or expensive, how about a C-D system between I-781 and NY-342?

I like Steve's solution for the I-81 southbound movements. The northbound side of the 342 could be reconfigured to parclo-style ramps in the SE quadrant, to buy a little more space along 81 to mitigate the weave.

I have to wonder if the SPUI at US11 will take out or otherwise affect the entrance to that crappy little suburbia-development...

In other news.... how `bout those street names inside the base, uh?

[agentsteel53]

I have to wonder if the SPUI at US11 will take out or otherwise affect the entrance to that crappy little suburbia-development...

collateral damage. 

[froggie]

I like Steve's solution for the I-81 southbound movements. The northbound side of the 342 could be reconfigured to parclo-style ramps in the SE quadrant, to buy a little more space along 81 to mitigate the weave.

Agree with Steve's solution for southbound.  For northbound, the project location map suggests there'll be about 1/3 mile between the on-ramp from NY 342 and the off-ramp to I-781.  While not ideal, constructing an auxiliary lane would at least make it acceptable.

I have to wonder if the SPUI at US11 will take out or otherwise affect the entrance to that crappy little suburbia-development...

It'll shift the entrance to the south.

[Alps]

I like Steve's solution for the I-81 southbound movements. The northbound side of the 342 could be reconfigured to parclo-style ramps in the SE quadrant, to buy a little more space along 81 to mitigate the weave.

Agree with Steve's solution for southbound.  For northbound, the project location map suggests there'll be about 1/3 mile between the on-ramp from NY 342 and the off-ramp to I-781.  While not ideal, constructing an auxiliary lane would at least make it acceptable.

To be an annoying traffic engineer, it may be acceptable without the aux lane.  Then you have a merge followed by a diverge, and yes they're close to each other (the influence areas would overlap), but 1/3 of a mile should be sufficient for the decel and accel lanes without meeting each other.  You'd have to analyze the merge and diverge and see if they work - the analysis method would account for the proximity of the ramps and assign extra traffic to the right lane.  For that matter, it's conceivable, though unlikely, that a two-lane section would work acceptably (merge/diverge) whereas a three-lane section would not (weave).

[froggie]

I was under the impression FHWA preferred auxiliary lanes when the distance between the merge and diverge was less than 1/2 mile.

[Alps]

I was under the impression FHWA preferred auxiliary lanes when the distance between the merge and diverge was less than 1/2 mile.

Entirely possible - may also depend on traffic volumes, and I have no answer for that (you'd want to consider peak periods, because the base may draw a lot of traffic at certain times and none at others).  Plenty of considerations, but I think if factors are favorable, you may be able to argue your way out of an auxiliary lane - again, it's unlikely but still possible that it won't work as well as a plain merge/diverge.

[vdeane]

It's definitely possible to not have one - eastbound on I-90, the distance between the ramps for exits 36 and 37 is under half a mile and they don't have an auxiliary lane; there's a very short gap between exit 36's acceleration lane and exit 37's deceleration lane.

[froggie]

That's also the Thruway and not a 90%-FHWA-funded Interstate...

[vdeane]

So interstates only have to follow interstate standards if 90% funded by the FHWA?  If that's the case, why don't we instantly designate non-standard interstates on the condition that they don't get those funds?

[TheStranger]

So interstates only have to follow interstate standards if 90% funded by the FHWA? 

Doesn't Wyoming's I-180 have that funding setup as well, yet resembles interstate standards in no way, shape, or form?

[froggie]

Remember, the legacy toll roads (i.e. the Thruway) were grandfathered in...and there is no outright requirement for the toll roads to completely conform with FHWA standards.  Though for the sake of consistency, there is definitely a desire for them to do so.

[vdeane]

They didn't even require them to comply when upgrades were done etc?  If not, they should at least extend the same courtesy to freeways that existed at the time the interstates were constructed but are only now being designated (such as NY 17).

[vdeane]

Here's a couple of photos on US 11:

View of where the future interchange will be

Close-up of stuff by Fort Drum

[njroadhorse]

Backtracking to the interchange problem, I feel that the C/D roads are the best way to correct this slight problem on I-81, but looking at it, would it be excessive to add a ramp to go from I-781 to NY 342?