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Author Topic: I-73 in VA  (Read 86083 times)

sprjus4

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #450 on: January 22, 2019, 04:52:46 PM »

Why not route it up US 29?
A US 29 interstate is a neat concept, though that's its own corridor. I-73 wouldn't serve that traffic.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #451 on: January 22, 2019, 05:00:01 PM »

How would it work?  How can you say something can "work" without your doing detailed engineering analysis?  If it would "work" then why didn't it make one of the many sub-alternates in the DEIS?
Same could be said about Henry County's "closer in" alternative. It wasn't originally considered, but it was requested, they studied it, and determined it could work. Same could go with this.

I said that it can be -considered-, pending traffic and development studies.  I would tend to believe that if I-73 is built that most of US-220 will be in the 5,000 to 8,000 AADT range and with about 10% large trucks.  If that is the case and the bypasses are converted to at-grade highways then there would be no bottlenecks and more businesses could be added.  But the traffic studies might prove otherwise.
There's just one problem. If they determined there's no issues, they add at-grade intersections, traffic signals every 1/2 mile, businesses grow, homes get built, that are of Henry County is now thriving, and the road now has 15,000+ AADT. Now, there's backup at all these traffic signals, and a freeway is warranted. Oh wait, we just got rid of one.

I'm sure we'll all be dead before Interstate 73 gets built in Virginia.
I'm pretty young, I'd be willing to say I could possibly see it. But it's going to be decades away. I'd rather see South Carolina's portion built first IMHO though. They need it, at least from I-95 to Myrtle Beach.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #452 on: January 22, 2019, 05:27:11 PM »

Why not route it up US 29?
That’s planned to be I-785. Well east of Martinsville.
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #453 on: January 22, 2019, 05:31:26 PM »

Why not route it up US 29?
That’s planned to be I-785. Well east of Martinsville.
Right now the designation only hits the Danville Bypass. I would support a freeway all the way to Lynchburg or Charlottesville though. The route between Danville and Altavista features existing limited-access bypasses that can easily be upgraded to interstate standards, then upgrade / bypass the rest. From Altavista to Lynchburg, I'd say build a new freeway from the Altavista Bypass stretching 20 miles to meet the Madison Heights Bypass.
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Beltway

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #454 on: January 22, 2019, 06:34:01 PM »

How would it work?  How can you say something can "work" without your doing detailed engineering analysis?  If it would "work" then why didn't it make one of the many sub-alternates in the DEIS?
Same could be said about Henry County's "closer in" alternative. It wasn't originally considered, but it was requested, they studied it, and determined it could work. Same could go with this.

Actually a combination of 3 DEIS sub-alternates would be fairly close to the Henry County Alternative, it is getting into tweaking at that point.

What you suggested would be a major new sub-alternate.  If there is any interest in the 4 southern municipalities studying it that would be one thing, but they made it clear that they want I-73 to the east of Martinsville.

I said that it can be -considered-, pending traffic and development studies.  I would tend to believe that if I-73 is built that most of US-220 will be in the 5,000 to 8,000 AADT range and with about 10% large trucks.  If that is the case and the bypasses are converted to at-grade highways then there would be no bottlenecks and more businesses could be added.  But the traffic studies might prove otherwise.
There's just one problem. If they determined there's no issues, they add at-grade intersections, traffic signals every 1/2 mile, businesses grow, homes get built, that are of Henry County is now thriving, and the road now has 15,000+ AADT. Now, there's backup at all these traffic signals, and a freeway is warranted. Oh wait, we just got rid of one.

That is jumping way ahead to think of signalized intersections every 1/2 mile, and 15,000 AADT which is similar to what is there now.  I would be concerned about the opposite, that a completed I-73 would take the bulk of the traffic and that the old US-220 might become a ghost town as has happened in some other places.

I realize that the uber-freeway posters probably feel like blowing lunch when they see posts about decertifying a limited access right-of-way or about converting a freeway into an expressway.  :banghead:
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #455 on: January 22, 2019, 08:53:33 PM »

That is jumping way ahead to think of signalized intersections every 1/2 mile, and 15,000 AADT which is similar to what is there now.  I would be concerned about the opposite, that a completed I-73 would take the bulk of the traffic and that the old US-220 might become a ghost town as has happened in some other places.
Still, it is pointless to waste money to demolish bridges, construct at-grade intersections, etc. on a perfectly fine highway. Again, think ahead. If Henry County were to do this, and used it as an economic development tool, it could turn into traffic issues. On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it. In the long-term, if bridges become obsolete, structurally deficient, etc. then maybe I could understand replacing a bridge with an at-grade intersection, but only when it warrants.

I realize that the uber-freeway posters probably feel like blowing lunch when they see posts about decertifying a limited access right-of-way or about converting a freeway into an expressway.  :banghead:
No... it's just a waste to downgrade a freeway when it's perfectly fine as is. Don't even get me started on "road diets".
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Beltway

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #456 on: January 22, 2019, 09:08:53 PM »

That is jumping way ahead to think of signalized intersections every 1/2 mile, and 15,000 AADT which is similar to what is there now.  I would be concerned about the opposite, that a completed I-73 would take the bulk of the traffic and that the old US-220 might become a ghost town as has happened in some other places.
Still, it is pointless to waste money to demolish bridges, construct at-grade intersections, etc. on a perfectly fine highway. Again, think ahead. If Henry County were to do this, and used it as an economic development tool, it could turn into traffic issues. On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it. In the long-term, if bridges become obsolete, structurally deficient, etc. then maybe I could understand replacing a bridge with an at-grade intersection, but only when it warrants.

It wouldn't cost anything to decertify the limited access right-of-way, other than the cost of removing the limited access fence.

Maybe the west leg of the bypass could become I-173, then you would have an Interstate and the roadgeeks would be excited. 

The Rocky Mount Bypass would not be connecting to a freeway, so it could be downgraded.

No... it's just a waste to downgrade a freeway when it's perfectly fine as is. Don't even get me started on "road diets".

This would be a "freeway diet", but only if the freeway was no longer warranted.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 09:18:58 PM by Beltway »
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #457 on: January 23, 2019, 09:13:46 AM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.

Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

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Beltway

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #458 on: January 23, 2019, 09:45:30 AM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:
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Scott M. Savage
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #459 on: January 23, 2019, 10:03:33 AM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:

No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...
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Beltway

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #460 on: January 23, 2019, 04:04:01 PM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D
Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:
No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...

I already mentioned the idea of I-173 for the west leg of the bypass, that would be 9 miles of highway, and for a supplemental route it might be able to use urban Interstate standards, and use the highway as is.  Since there already is a VA-173 and a VA-373, but no VA-573, this highway could be I-573.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 04:08:51 PM by Beltway »
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Scott M. Savage
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sprjus4

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #461 on: January 23, 2019, 05:24:32 PM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:

No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...
The Winston-Salem Beltway is proposed as I-274 and I-74. I've never heard of an I-273. Winston-Salem and the PTI Airport are already directly connected by I-40.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #462 on: January 23, 2019, 06:36:02 PM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.

Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

I'm sure the fine folks of Bristol, Norton and Bluefield would laugh at the suggestion that Martinsville is in southwestern Virginia. Maybe to the inside-the-beltway crowd it is, but they probably don't know the difference between Grundy and Tazewell.
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Takumi

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #463 on: January 23, 2019, 06:38:48 PM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:

No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...
Different states, so both could theoretically exist (though neither are planned, plus there’s already a VA 273).
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #464 on: January 23, 2019, 06:53:13 PM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:

No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...
The Winston-Salem Beltway is proposed as I-274 and I-74. I've never heard of an I-273. Winston-Salem and the PTI Airport are already directly connected by I-40.

I was sarcastically referring to the connector once (possibly still?) in NCDOT's long-term plans that would've linked the eastern half of the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway to I-73 near the airport, seen in the middle of this image from MalmeRoads:



I don't think it's ever gotten an official number and I have no idea if NCDOT or any local agencies are still considering it. The final design for the I-73/NC 68 interchange has no accommodation for it, though the slightly different design from the feasibility study(?) was designed around the connection for it.
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Beltway

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #465 on: January 23, 2019, 08:43:14 PM »

I'm sure the fine folks of Bristol, Norton and Bluefield would laugh at the suggestion that Martinsville is in southwestern Virginia. Maybe to the inside-the-beltway crowd it is, but they probably don't know the difference between Grundy and Tazewell.

One of those topics that could be debated ad infinitum!   :D

FWIW:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Virginia
That includes the US-220 counties in the Martinsville, Roanoke and Clifton Forge corridor.

Counties that have been included in the definition of Southwest Virginia include: Alleghany County, Bedford County, Bland County, Botetourt County, Buchanan County, Carroll County, Craig County, Dickenson County, Floyd County, Franklin County, Giles County, Grayson County, Henry County, Lee County, Montgomery County, Patrick County, Pulaski County, Roanoke County, Rockbridge County, Russell County, Scott County, Smyth County, Tazewell County, Washington County, Wise County, and Wythe County.

Independent cities in Southwest Virginia include Bristol, Buena Vista, Covington, Galax, Lexington, Martinsville, Norton, Radford, Roanoke, and Salem.  Christiansburg and Blacksburg are incorporated towns.
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Scott M. Savage
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #466 on: January 23, 2019, 09:54:08 PM »

The 9th congressional district, which defines SWVA, includes Martinsville, but barely. The eastern end of the Martinsville freeway bypass is in the 5th district and therefore outside SWVA.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #467 on: January 23, 2019, 10:02:12 PM »

The 9th congressional district, which defines SWVA, includes Martinsville, but barely. The eastern end of the Martinsville freeway bypass is in the 5th district and therefore outside SWVA.

Congressional district boundaries can and do change over time.  County boundaries are generally static.
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Scott M. Savage
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #468 on: January 24, 2019, 12:33:01 AM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:

No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...
The Winston-Salem Beltway is proposed as I-274 and I-74. I've never heard of an I-273. Winston-Salem and the PTI Airport are already directly connected by I-40.

I was sarcastically referring to the connector once (possibly still?) in NCDOT's long-term plans that would've linked the eastern half of the Winston-Salem Northern Beltway to I-73 near the airport, seen in the middle of this image from MalmeRoads:



I don't think it's ever gotten an official number and I have no idea if NCDOT or any local agencies are still considering it. The final design for the I-73/NC 68 interchange has no accommodation for it, though the slightly different design from the feasibility study(?) was designed around the connection for it.



Unfortunately, they’re still considering it. It is listed on Greensboro MPO, which is looking for improvememts and better connection to the airport, along with other improvements to local roads. I have seen the blueprint of what the interchange will be like between I-73/NC 68/the connector, and it is a complicated one. The I-73/74 connector doesn’t have a route number, but it is unfunded. I have been opposing this connector since we really don’t need a parallel road along I-40 and US 421 (Business 40).

However, the only part of the connector I can see being built is the one from I-40/US 421 split to I-73/NC 68 interchange.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #469 on: January 24, 2019, 12:45:16 AM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:

No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...
The Winston-Salem Beltway is proposed as I-274 and I-74. I've never heard of an I-273. Winston-Salem and the PTI Airport are already directly connected by I-40.


I-74 for the eastern part and NC 452 (for the western part). There isn’t a proposed I-274 yet, although I will not be surprised if NCDOT do that.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #470 on: January 24, 2019, 01:07:39 AM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.
Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

Some of the roadgeeks here wouldn't be satisfied until the Martinsville Beltway was designated as I-273.     :no:

No, I-273 is for the Winston-Salem/PTI Airport connector thingy. I'm sure they'll start on that any day now...
The Winston-Salem Beltway is proposed as I-274 and I-74. I've never heard of an I-273. Winston-Salem and the PTI Airport are already directly connected by I-40.


I-74 for the eastern part and NC 452 (for the western part). There isn’t a proposed I-274 yet, although I will not be surprised if NCDOT do that.

IIRC, I-274 turned up in the design-build plans for the interchange with US 52.

Now back to arguing about I-73 in Virginia...
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #471 on: January 24, 2019, 09:22:04 AM »

On the other hand, they could use it as a freeway spur of an eastern I-73 to the western side where there's already existing businesses, instead of ruining it.

Well, if it goes all the way around and connects back to I-73, then we could have the Martinsville Beltway, with an "inner loop" and "outer loop" and Southwest Virginia could be real uptown just like Northern Virginia.  :-D

I'm sure the fine folks of Bristol, Norton and Bluefield would laugh at the suggestion that Martinsville is in southwestern Virginia. Maybe to the inside-the-beltway crowd it is, but they probably don't know the difference between Grundy and Tazewell.

There are people in Northern Virginia who think Blacksburg is just the other side of Harrisonburg. Grundy (been there, and to Deel and Oakwood) might as well be on another planet.

Martinsville is in a weird place, close enough to be part of Southwest Virginia but also almost close to Piedmont (but not close enough to be considered Central Virginia).

Bruce in Blacksburg (firmly in Southwest Virginia)
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #472 on: January 24, 2019, 09:40:09 AM »

Why not route it up US 29?
That’s planned to be I-785. Well east of Martinsville.
Right now the designation only hits the Danville Bypass. I would support a freeway all the way to Lynchburg or Charlottesville though. The route between Danville and Altavista features existing limited-access bypasses that can easily be upgraded to interstate standards, then upgrade / bypass the rest. From Altavista to Lynchburg, I'd say build a new freeway from the Altavista Bypass stretching 20 miles to meet the Madison Heights Bypass.
Well, that would call for an I-83 extension, which, of course, would have to be rerouted around Baltimore in order to reach US 29.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #473 on: January 24, 2019, 09:50:19 AM »

Why not route it up US 29?
That’s planned to be I-785. Well east of Martinsville.
Right now the designation only hits the Danville Bypass. I would support a freeway all the way to Lynchburg or Charlottesville though. The route between Danville and Altavista features existing limited-access bypasses that can easily be upgraded to interstate standards, then upgrade / bypass the rest. From Altavista to Lynchburg, I'd say build a new freeway from the Altavista Bypass stretching 20 miles to meet the Madison Heights Bypass.
Well, that would call for an I-83 extension, which, of course, would have to be rerouted around Baltimore in order to reach US 29.
It could also be apart of I-785 which is the official designation between I-85 at Greensboro to US 58 in Danville. It would tie right in.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #474 on: January 24, 2019, 03:45:05 PM »

Why not route it up US 29?
That’s planned to be I-785. Well east of Martinsville.
Right now the designation only hits the Danville Bypass. I would support a freeway all the way to Lynchburg or Charlottesville though. The route between Danville and Altavista features existing limited-access bypasses that can easily be upgraded to interstate standards, then upgrade / bypass the rest. From Altavista to Lynchburg, I'd say build a new freeway from the Altavista Bypass stretching 20 miles to meet the Madison Heights Bypass.
Well, that would call for an I-83 extension, which, of course, would have to be rerouted around Baltimore in order to reach US 29.
It could also be apart of I-785 which is the official designation between I-85 at Greensboro to US 58 in Danville. It would tie right in.
One problem with this is that wouldn't Virginia be hurting their plan to turn I-81 into a toll road?  I-73 would be parallel to I-81 through a good portion of Virginia, and any I-81 traffic that would be going south on I-77 into the Carolinas would just take I-73 to avoid the toll (and perhaps save some miles).
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