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Author Topic: I-73 in VA  (Read 97299 times)

hbelkins

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #250 on: January 29, 2017, 04:42:48 PM »

If it isn't a priority, then there's no need to rush to build as a toll road.  Spend the money where it is needed and then fit I-73 in when you have room in your program.

It's not needed at all. Again, US 220 is fine as-is to connect Martinsville to Roanoke.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #251 on: January 30, 2017, 05:37:32 PM »

If they eventually do build Interstate 73 from Roanoke to North Carolina, I think they should use as much of the existing alignment as possible, and minimize using new alignments unless they are absolutely necessary. Would this be a practical plan?

There are few places that the existing road could be upgraded to interstate standards, which is why there has been a push (and resistance) for a new highway. There are a lot of side roads, driveways, and business entrances along much of current U.S. 220 to the point that they can't just be waved away or fixed with frontage roads. Of course, if sections of the existing road were re-used, it would wipe out a lot of those homes and businesses. This is the problem with starting with a game trail/colonial pathway as the basis for a highway.

Bruce in Blacksburg
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Strider

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #252 on: January 31, 2017, 01:35:12 AM »

If they eventually do build Interstate 73 from Roanoke to North Carolina, I think they should use as much of the existing alignment as possible, and minimize using new alignments unless they are absolutely necessary. Would this be a practical plan?


I can see there are a very few sections of US 220 that can be upgraded to interstate standards. (very few).. but there are so many side roads like Bruce in Blacksburg mentioned along the road. That is probably why I-73 has to be built on mostly a new terrain. I have always support the road to be built using mostly existing alignments (Martinsville and Rocky Mount bypasses) and the new alignments when it must be, but they have already decided on the routing in 2012.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #253 on: January 31, 2017, 08:29:01 AM »

I can see there are a very few sections of US 220 that can be upgraded to interstate standards. (very few).. but there are so many side roads like Bruce in Blacksburg mentioned along the road. That is probably why I-73 has to be built on mostly a new terrain. I have always support the road to be built using mostly existing alignments (Martinsville and Rocky Mount bypasses) and the new alignments when it must be, but they have already decided on the routing in 2012.

I am not saying that it is possible in this case, but Virginia has converted a U.S. arterial highways to an Interstate before (notably I-95 between Jarrat and Petersburg).

From driving I-95 there, it appears that there were people on the east side of the old U.S. 301 that were cut-off when the conversion was done, though VDH did (in places) build a new frontage road on the east side.

Not in any way claiming that this is feasible or desirable along U.S. 220, just putting it out there.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #254 on: January 31, 2017, 08:43:33 AM »

Terrain on I-95 is also much more forgiving than the terrain along US 220...
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #255 on: January 31, 2017, 11:45:56 AM »

Terrain on I-95 is also much more forgiving than the terrain along US 220...

Yes, that's correct. I-95 south from Emporia is mostly pancake-flat.  It also helped that the old four lane divided U.S. 301 had few curves.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #256 on: January 31, 2017, 10:54:42 PM »

I can see there are a very few sections of US 220 that can be upgraded to interstate standards. (very few).. but there are so many side roads like Bruce in Blacksburg mentioned along the road. That is probably why I-73 has to be built on mostly a new terrain. I have always support the road to be built using mostly existing alignments (Martinsville and Rocky Mount bypasses) and the new alignments when it must be, but they have already decided on the routing in 2012.

I am not saying that it is possible in this case, but Virginia has converted a U.S. arterial highways to an Interstate before (notably I-95 between Jarrat and Petersburg).

From driving I-95 there, it appears that there were people on the east side of the old U.S. 301 that were cut-off when the conversion was done, though VDH did (in places) build a new frontage road on the east side.

Not in any way claiming that this is feasible or desirable along U.S. 220, just putting it out there.


Yeah it is possible. You are correct. I would prefer this kind of method when upgrading U.S. 220 into a interstate. We shall see, don't we?
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #257 on: March 11, 2017, 06:23:34 AM »

The General Assembly passed an I-73 bill.

http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/news/i--bill-approved-by-general-assembly/article_c80bfb1e-fbce-11e6-9d3c-7727f3ef1261.html

Quote
When work is finished on Route 58, the money could pass over to Interstate 73. The General Assembly signed off on a bill to make that happen this week, with one catch. It has to be approved one more time in 2018 by both the Virginia House and Senate.

Right now, $40 million a year goes from state taxes to the U.S. Route 58 Corridor Development Fund. The next phase of the project is set to be advertised in 2020. All total, Route 58 is expected to be complete by 2030 at the latest. When that happens, under the terms of SB806, the money would go toward the Interstate 73 Corridor Development Fund.

That doesn't mean construction could start in 2030. Under the Virginia Code, the Virginia Department of Transportation can only start construction once a project is fully funded. Currently, the project has an estimated price tag of $4 billion. At the same time, state Sen. Bill Stanley, the bill's author, feels this is a good next step.

“It's a huge policy statement Virginia has made,” Stanley said. “It shows Virginia is serious about building I-73.”

Stanley argues that it's only fair for southern Virginia to get money for this project, especially when you look back at the last decade of road funding. In that period, Northern Virginia got $6 billion, the Hampton Roads area got $4 billion and this region got less than $900 million.

Local officials say they're also encouraged that the General Assembly gave a tentative approval to the bill.

“It's good to see a commitment from the Commonwealth toward the I-73 project,” said Dale Wagoner, Henry County Deputy Administrator. “We have heard numerous times that the state needed to have some skin in the game so that the federal government will provide some money, so it’s exciting to hear that the General Assembly supports that project and has made a commitment for future funding for it.”

Wagoner said that the county board of supervisors and staff are committed to doing what's needed to make this project work and want to encourage federal lawmakers to include this in any infrastructure bill considered by the new administration. The district lost $8.5 million this fall, money originally earmarked for the project. It was one of several “orphan” earmarks, money for projects not yet ready to move forward that was redistributed.

“I know that money will be needed and used when it becomes available,” said Skip Ressel, president of the I-73 Committee for Martinsville and Henry County. He did ask however for lawmakers to consider starting the Henry County portion of the road first and then building out from there.

“I would urge the I-73 committee to start where it will do Henry County the most good, and that’s the Patriot Centre, then head to the North Carolina line,” Ressel said. “That would help the citizens and the industries in the Patriot Centre, allowing existing businesses to get a leg up on the competition by being close to a four lane road.”

Benefit of the road

Stanley sees I-73 as a way to help spur economic growth in the area. He argued that it would bring 48,000 jobs to the area, as well as attracting new businesses and providing more tax revenue for local governments.

A new study on the road and its impact is expected to be released in April, Stanley said. It would be the first done on the project since one by Chmura Economics in 2008, paid for by the Harvest Foundation. That 2008 study found that “the city of Roanoke is expected to land more than half of the jobs along I-73, followed by the counties of Henry, Franklin and Roanoke.”

All total, the 2008 report projected Henry County to get six hotels, eight gas stations, five fast food and two full-service restaurants. By comparison, it estimated Roanoke would get 30 hotels, 25 gas stations, 21 fast food and 16 full-service restaurants. That's based on the number of interchanges each area would have with I-73.

As a benefit, Stanley also points to the fact the road would connect Southside and Southwest Virginia to three deep water ports in North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia. He also pointed out that North Carolina has plans to build a road from Raleigh to the ports in the near future. If I-73 isn't built, Stanley cautions that Virginia could lose some of that traffic from the port. Instead of going to Virginia distribution centers, it could go to North Carolina. Other local officials have argued similar points, stating that the goal would be to recruit distribution centers to Henry County.

The report cautioned however that “in light of the fact that I-73 in Virginia is much shorter than I-81 and further from mega-metropolitan areas, the region might not be able to attract a cluster of distribution centers like those on the northern end of Virginia's I-81.” That 2008 report does say “with proper targeting and incentives, there is potential for I-73 in Virginia to land a couple of distribution centers serving mid-sized metropolitan areas.”

The new report is set to come out April 5, when the General Assembly gathers for their reconvened session.
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froggie

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #258 on: March 11, 2017, 10:54:50 AM »

Of course NoVA got $6B over southern Virginia's $900M.  NoVA has traffic and population that is several orders of magnitude higher than the Roanoke-Martinsville region...
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Takumi

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #259 on: March 11, 2017, 12:54:09 PM »

$40 million a year works out to I-73 being fully funded in ~2130. I'm not waiting around for that.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #260 on: March 11, 2017, 05:04:53 PM »

And that's assuming funding stays even and costs don't rise...
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LM117

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #261 on: March 11, 2017, 06:58:27 PM »

Quote
Under the Virginia Code, the Virginia Department of Transportation can only start construction once a project is fully funded. Currently, the project has an estimated price tag of $4 billion.

That's the issue right there.

Wouldn't it be better to change the code to allow projects to be built in segments as funding is found, providing that the segments have logical (albeit temporary) beginning/end points, such as the segment from Martinsville to NC?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 07:05:52 PM by LM117 »
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Mapmikey

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #262 on: March 11, 2017, 09:43:44 PM »

Quote
Under the Virginia Code, the Virginia Department of Transportation can only start construction once a project is fully funded. Currently, the project has an estimated price tag of $4 billion.

That's the issue right there.

Wouldn't it be better to change the code to allow projects to be built in segments as funding is found, providing that the segments have logical (albeit temporary) beginning/end points, such as the segment from Martinsville to NC?

US 121 was not fully funded as of 2014 but construction had begun on parts of it (per http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2014/may/pres/Presentation_Agenda_Item_3.pdf).  The prohibition may not mean the entirety of some huge endeavor but may instead mean specific definable phases...?

Otherwise US 29 Madison Height Bypass couldn't have been built either because the desired continuation down to the VA 24 area wasn't funded.  I'm sure there are more examples...
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Strider

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #263 on: March 13, 2017, 01:46:00 PM »

Quote
Under the Virginia Code, the Virginia Department of Transportation can only start construction once a project is fully funded. Currently, the project has an estimated price tag of $4 billion.

That's the issue right there.

Wouldn't it be better to change the code to allow projects to be built in segments as funding is found, providing that the segments have logical (albeit temporary) beginning/end points, such as the segment from Martinsville to NC?


I agree, they should change the code to allow projects to be built in segments. Much easier that way.

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froggie

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #264 on: March 13, 2017, 09:54:15 PM »

One relevant section of code, Section 33.2-368, for financial plans for projects valued over $100 million, which "I-73" certainly falls under:

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title33.2/chapter3/section33.2-368/
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #265 on: March 14, 2017, 02:30:25 PM »

One relevant section of code, Section 33.2-368, for financial plans for projects valued over $100 million, which "I-73" certainly falls under:

http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title33.2/chapter3/section33.2-368/

If any of this proposed project falls in an area with a Metropolitan Planning Organization, then the federal requirement for a financially constrained Long Range Plan also will apply.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 08:43:44 PM by cpzilliacus »
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VTGoose

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #266 on: March 15, 2017, 09:23:00 AM »

There is a revived push to extend the Smart Road in Blacksburg to finally reach I-81. At one time, this short stretch of highway was proposed to be a link in I-73 as it made its way west/north via I-81 from Roanoke. That never gained much traction since U.S 460 beyond the north end of the Blacksburg bypass is nowhere near interstate standards and a new highway would face the same problems as a new road between Roanoke and Martinsville. See http://www.roanoke.com/news/education/higher_education/virginia_tech/montgomery-county-restarts-call-for-million-smart-road-connector-to/article_5841f8f9-a8ed-509c-911c-7ce0e7820ae3.html or https://goo.gl/YO9pRl

Bruce in Blacksburg
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Beltway

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #267 on: June 21, 2017, 04:45:23 PM »

Quote
Under the Virginia Code, the Virginia Department of Transportation can only start construction once a project is fully funded. Currently, the project has an estimated price tag of $4 billion.
That's the issue right there.

Wouldn't it be better to change the code to allow projects to be built in segments as funding is found, providing that the segments have logical (albeit temporary) beginning/end points, such as the segment from Martinsville to NC?

In the NEPA EIS/location study process, FHWA allows Segments of Independent Utility (SIU) to be identified to allow independent construction as funding becomes available.  Each segment would be a separate project.

The northern half of the US-29 Lynchburg / Madison Heights Bypass was approved and constructed in this manner. 

In the case of VA I-73, there may only be two segments that would logically be built as SIU, with the dividing line being where I-73 touches US-220 about 2 miles north of the Franklin/Henry county line.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Salem/I-73_Map_December_2012.jpg

A third segment might be the extension of the US-220 freeway from VA-419 southward thru the urban area for about 3 miles, that would have major immediate benefits.

Traffic warrants building this highway, as AADTs are about 12,000 south of Martinsville, about 16,000 between Martinsville and Rocky Mount, and about 24,000 on the rural sections north of Rocky Mount.  Even though US-220 is a 4-lane divided highway with town bypasses, traffic will grow over the next 20 years to where an Interstate highway would be warranted, and this would be part of the I-73 corridor between I-40 at Greensboro, NC and I-81 at Roanoke, VA.

The problem is the cost, I can't see where they are going to obtain $4 billion for building that 70 miles of highway.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #268 on: June 22, 2017, 03:02:04 PM »

Quote
Under the Virginia Code, the Virginia Department of Transportation can only start construction once a project is fully funded. Currently, the project has an estimated price tag of $4 billion.
That's the issue right there.

Wouldn't it be better to change the code to allow projects to be built in segments as funding is found, providing that the segments have logical (albeit temporary) beginning/end points, such as the segment from Martinsville to NC?

In the NEPA EIS/location study process, FHWA allows Segments of Independent Utility (SIU) to be identified to allow independent construction as funding becomes available.  Each segment would be a separate project.

The northern half of the US-29 Lynchburg / Madison Heights Bypass was approved and constructed in this manner. 

In the case of VA I-73, there may only be two segments that would logically be built as SIU, with the dividing line being where I-73 touches US-220 about 2 miles north of the Franklin/Henry county line.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Salem/I-73_Map_December_2012.jpg

A third segment might be the extension of the US-220 freeway from VA-419 southward thru the urban area for about 3 miles, that would have major immediate benefits.

Traffic warrants building this highway, as AADTs are about 12,000 south of Martinsville, about 16,000 between Martinsville and Rocky Mount, and about 24,000 on the rural sections north of Rocky Mount.  Even though US-220 is a 4-lane divided highway with town bypasses, traffic will grow over the next 20 years to where an Interstate highway would be warranted, and this would be part of the I-73 corridor between I-40 at Greensboro, NC and I-81 at Roanoke, VA.

The problem is the cost, I can't see where they are going to obtain $4 billion for building that 70 miles of highway.


My question is this: How in the world is it costing $4 billion for just 63 miles of unbuilt highway (not including I-581 and the US 58 Martinsville bypass in which I-73 will be using). I find that cost a full of crap.

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sparker

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #269 on: June 22, 2017, 03:32:44 PM »

Quote
Under the Virginia Code, the Virginia Department of Transportation can only start construction once a project is fully funded. Currently, the project has an estimated price tag of $4 billion.
That's the issue right there.

Wouldn't it be better to change the code to allow projects to be built in segments as funding is found, providing that the segments have logical (albeit temporary) beginning/end points, such as the segment from Martinsville to NC?

In the NEPA EIS/location study process, FHWA allows Segments of Independent Utility (SIU) to be identified to allow independent construction as funding becomes available.  Each segment would be a separate project.

The northern half of the US-29 Lynchburg / Madison Heights Bypass was approved and constructed in this manner. 

In the case of VA I-73, there may only be two segments that would logically be built as SIU, with the dividing line being where I-73 touches US-220 about 2 miles north of the Franklin/Henry county line.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Salem/I-73_Map_December_2012.jpg

A third segment might be the extension of the US-220 freeway from VA-419 southward thru the urban area for about 3 miles, that would have major immediate benefits.

Traffic warrants building this highway, as AADTs are about 12,000 south of Martinsville, about 16,000 between Martinsville and Rocky Mount, and about 24,000 on the rural sections north of Rocky Mount.  Even though US-220 is a 4-lane divided highway with town bypasses, traffic will grow over the next 20 years to where an Interstate highway would be warranted, and this would be part of the I-73 corridor between I-40 at Greensboro, NC and I-81 at Roanoke, VA.

The problem is the cost, I can't see where they are going to obtain $4 billion for building that 70 miles of highway.


My question is this: How in the world is it costing $4 billion for just 63 miles of unbuilt highway (not including I-581 and the US 58 Martinsville bypass in which I-73 will be using). I find that cost a full of crap.

IIRC, the published plans for the I-73 alignment near Martinsville did not utilize more than a mile of the US 58 bypass before it veered off on its own.  I would venture that since the proposed route traverses a sizeable chunk of suburban area south of Roanoke -- plus the populated Martinsville area, not to mention intervening towns along US 220 -- much of that projected cost is property acquisition. 

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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #270 on: June 22, 2017, 04:14:02 PM »

That works out to about $57 million per mile. Could terrain also play a factor?
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #271 on: June 22, 2017, 04:16:37 PM »

What is the terrain like in Interstate 73's proposed path? Is it very hilly?
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #272 on: June 22, 2017, 04:27:53 PM »

Quite hilly.  Lots of blasting and earth movement would be required, which will also bump the cost up.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #273 on: June 22, 2017, 05:10:30 PM »

In the case of VA I-73, there may only be two segments that would logically be built as SIU, with the dividing line being where I-73 touches US-220 about 2 miles north of the Franklin/Henry county line.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Salem/I-73_Map_December_2012.jpg

A third segment might be the extension of the US-220 freeway from VA-419 southward thru the urban area for about 3 miles, that would have major immediate benefits.

Traffic warrants building this highway, as AADTs are about 12,000 south of Martinsville, about 16,000 between Martinsville and Rocky Mount, and about 24,000 on the rural sections north of Rocky Mount.  Even though US-220 is a 4-lane divided highway with town bypasses, traffic will grow over the next 20 years to where an Interstate highway would be warranted, and this would be part of the I-73 corridor between I-40 at Greensboro, NC and I-81 at Roanoke, VA.

The problem is the cost, I can't see where they are going to obtain $4 billion for building that 70 miles of highway.
My question is this: How in the world is it costing $4 billion for just 63 miles of unbuilt highway (not including I-581 and the US 58 Martinsville bypass in which I-73 will be using). I find that cost a full of crap.

There will be major upgrades to I-581 and the Martinsville Bypass, but I have also wondered why it would cost more than $25 to $30 million per mile on average.  The section just south of VA-419 will be complex but for only about 3 miles.
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Re: I-73 in VA
« Reply #274 on: June 22, 2017, 06:35:23 PM »

In the case of VA I-73, there may only be two segments that would logically be built as SIU, with the dividing line being where I-73 touches US-220 about 2 miles north of the Franklin/Henry county line.
http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/Salem/I-73_Map_December_2012.jpg

A third segment might be the extension of the US-220 freeway from VA-419 southward thru the urban area for about 3 miles, that would have major immediate benefits.

Traffic warrants building this highway, as AADTs are about 12,000 south of Martinsville, about 16,000 between Martinsville and Rocky Mount, and about 24,000 on the rural sections north of Rocky Mount.  Even though US-220 is a 4-lane divided highway with town bypasses, traffic will grow over the next 20 years to where an Interstate highway would be warranted, and this would be part of the I-73 corridor between I-40 at Greensboro, NC and I-81 at Roanoke, VA.

The problem is the cost, I can't see where they are going to obtain $4 billion for building that 70 miles of highway.
My question is this: How in the world is it costing $4 billion for just 63 miles of unbuilt highway (not including I-581 and the US 58 Martinsville bypass in which I-73 will be using). I find that cost a full of crap.

There will be major upgrades to I-581 and the Martinsville Bypass, but I have also wondered why it would cost more than $25 to $30 million per mile on average.  The section just south of VA-419 will be complex but for only about 3 miles.


To be honest with you, other than upgrading the bridges that I-581 crosses in Downtown Roanoke just north of VA 24 exit, and the I-81/I-581 interchange, every section on I-581 is already up to interstate standards and don't need major upgrades. The US 58 Martinsville Bypass is another story though.. no shoulders, narrow lanes.. I can see for obvious reasons it needs a major upgrade.

I think the terrain might have something to do but it shouldn't cost more than $30 million per mile.

Sometimes I wish they have the brains to decide to use (upgrade) US 220 western Martinsville and Rocky Mount bypasses and build some on a new terrain instead of its current plans... it could save a lot of money.

I believe the state will find money. I can see it coming.

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