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Author Topic: New York State Thruway  (Read 343806 times)

Beltway

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1800 on: December 19, 2019, 11:38:23 AM »

In recent years, NYSDOT has operated on an annual budget that numbers in a few billion or so (essentially $2-3 billion + whatever PIT comes NYSDOT's way), and dwarfs NYSTA in terms of lane miles and bridge deck area, for example.
NYSDOT only has a budget of $3 billion per year?

In a state with that much population (almost 20 million)?

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1801 on: December 19, 2019, 12:07:30 PM »

On the subject of bridge toll increases.
The new Mario M. Cuomo Bridge toll has been proposed. Here's what it would be.

Quote from: Lohud.com article
The toll on the Gov. Mario M. Cuomo Bridge could be set to increase to $5.75 for E-ZPass users by 2022, though residents of Westchester and Rockland County will get a discount maintaining the current $4.75 toll through then.

Those who pay by mail would pay more: An additional 30% plus a $2 surcharge on monthly bills beginning in 2021, which will apply across the entire Thruway system.

The state Thruway Authority's board of directors formally proposed the increase Thursday morning at its meeting in Albany, potentially ending the years-long mystery of how much the toll would rise on the $4 billion bridge crossing the Hudson River.

Once fully approved, the Thruway would begin implementing the increase in 2021, after a toll-hike moratorium expires at the end of 2020.

Among the changes, according to the authority:

-The toll for E-ZPass users, currently $4.75 on the Westchester-bound span, would increase to $5.25 in 2021 and $5.75 in 2022.

-Those who pay tolls by mail would pay 30% more, meaning they will pay about $6.83 in 2021 and $7.38 in 2022.

-They will also pay a $2 surcharge on monthly bills.

-A 40% discount for commuters would remain in place.

-A new resident discount for Westchester and Rockland residents would maintain the current E-ZPass toll of $4.75 through 2022.

-The toll for commercial traffic would also increase, with the most common trucks set to pay about $55 in 2022.

The Thruway Authority board approved the changes Thursday morning. From there, the Thruway will have to hold hearings and accept public comment before putting the increase in place.

"Now is the time to begin consideration of a (toll) adjustment process," said Thruway CFO Matt Howard. "It will allow us to conform with the Thruway Authority's pledge to keep tolls frozen through 2020."
...
Credit-rating agencies had warned that the uncertainty of the toll, which had remained at Tappan Zee levels even after the new bridge opened, could cause problems for the Thruway's bond rating.

In a report last month, Moody's Investor Services suggested that a toll increase will likely be needed by 2022. The report came as the Thruway sold $2.7 billion in bonds, in part to take advantage of low interest rates and pay off a federal loan for the bridge early.
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Rothman

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1802 on: December 19, 2019, 12:50:35 PM »

In recent years, NYSDOT has operated on an annual budget that numbers in a few billion or so (essentially $2-3 billion + whatever PIT comes NYSDOT's way), and dwarfs NYSTA in terms of lane miles and bridge deck area, for example.
NYSDOT only has a budget of $3 billion per year?

In a state with that much population (almost 20 million)?
Shocking, isn't it.  We're also a donor state and a lot of people up her grumble we'd be in a better situation if we got our fed dollars back instead of them ending up in other states where the people want smaller government anyway.
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vdeane

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1803 on: December 19, 2019, 01:15:14 PM »

That toll increase is more modest than I would have expected, but the bill by mail changes... yikes.  I wonder if the percentage increase will apply to out of state E-Zpass users as well, since the Thruway started engaging in transponder discrimination a couple years ago.  My parents are going to have to either get an E-ZPass or get hit with a very massive increase in the amount they pay - from $1.60 per year (yes, per year - their Thruway usage usually consists only of four trips/year between Rochester and Canandaigua) to $8.08-10.08 (depending on when the family picnic is held) per year!

IIRC, the toll on for the Tappan Zee (both old & new bridges) has always been lower than those of the southern NYC-Hudson River crossings; so I don't necessarily think that the truck partial-shunpiking to the Tappan Zee to avoid the more expensive NYC crossings is necessarily a new phenomenon.  The only thing that's changed is that the new 8-lane bridge allows the traffic to move more freely in that immediate area than the old bridge allowed.

Even if the toll freeze for the bridge expired/is lifted; the chances are the new higher toll will still be priced lower than the tolls for the other southern crossings. 

OTOH, if the increase is too severe; one might see more longer-distance through-truck traffic using the much cheaper I-84 Newburgh-Beacon Bridge further north... if they're not doing such already.
True, but the difference has been growing.  NYSTA historically hasn't raised tolls all that often, even before the toll freeze (which Cuomo implemented in part because of worried commuters over the Tappan Zee, but also because of upstate drivers unaccustomed to tolls rates changing, well, ever).  I think Thruway tolls have only gone up once or twice in my entire life.
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Beltway

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1804 on: December 19, 2019, 01:22:28 PM »

In recent years, NYSDOT has operated on an annual budget that numbers in a few billion or so (essentially $2-3 billion + whatever PIT comes NYSDOT's way), and dwarfs NYSTA in terms of lane miles and bridge deck area, for example.
NYSDOT only has a budget of $3 billion per year?
In a state with that much population (almost 20 million)?
Shocking, isn't it.  We're also a donor state and a lot of people up her grumble we'd be in a better situation if we got our fed dollars back instead of them ending up in other states where the people want smaller government anyway.
So you're claiming that they "donate" $5 billion in federal aid funds per year to the other states?

On a population weighted basis that is pretty close to what would have to happen.
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1805 on: December 19, 2019, 02:10:38 PM »

Newburgh-Beacon is already a long-distance alternate for truckers. 81-84 is a very busy truck route, with 84 at a little over 20% trucks between PA and the Thruway. Aren't many freeways in the state with a higher truck %.
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RobbieL2415

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1806 on: December 19, 2019, 07:36:11 PM »

Newburgh-Beacon is already a long-distance alternate for truckers. 81-84 is a very busy truck route, with 84 at a little over 20% trucks between PA and the Thruway. Aren't many freeways in the state with a higher truck %.
Rip van Winkle?
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hbelkins

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1807 on: December 20, 2019, 02:02:15 PM »

In recent years, NYSDOT has operated on an annual budget that numbers in a few billion or so (essentially $2-3 billion + whatever PIT comes NYSDOT's way), and dwarfs NYSTA in terms of lane miles and bridge deck area, for example.
NYSDOT only has a budget of $3 billion per year?
In a state with that much population (almost 20 million)?
Shocking, isn't it.  We're also a donor state and a lot of people up her grumble we'd be in a better situation if we got our fed dollars back instead of them ending up in other states where the people want smaller government anyway.
So you're claiming that they "donate" $5 billion in federal aid funds per year to the other states?

On a population weighted basis that is pretty close to what would have to happen.

Yeah, I can't imagine that a densely-populated state like New York would contribute more in gas taxes than a more rural state, where people have to drive farther on a daily basis to get to work.

No doubt New York is a donor state for general tax fund revenues, but highway funding?
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MASTERNC

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1808 on: December 20, 2019, 06:25:00 PM »

That toll increase is more modest than I would have expected, but the bill by mail changes... yikes.  I wonder if the percentage increase will apply to out of state E-Zpass users as well, since the Thruway started engaging in transponder discrimination a couple years ago.  My parents are going to have to either get an E-ZPass or get hit with a very massive increase in the amount they pay - from $1.60 per year (yes, per year - their Thruway usage usually consists only of four trips/year between Rochester and Canandaigua) to $8.08-10.08 (depending on when the family picnic is held) per year!

From what I read, tolls for non-NY E-ZPass users will be 15% higher than the NY E-ZPass rate.  It amounts to about a 9% toll increase from current rates (compared to a 24% increase for cash customers).  Looks like the increases for the bridge toll are higher than that.
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Rothman

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1809 on: December 20, 2019, 11:07:02 PM »

In recent years, NYSDOT has operated on an annual budget that numbers in a few billion or so (essentially $2-3 billion + whatever PIT comes NYSDOT's way), and dwarfs NYSTA in terms of lane miles and bridge deck area, for example.
NYSDOT only has a budget of $3 billion per year?
In a state with that much population (almost 20 million)?
Shocking, isn't it.  We're also a donor state and a lot of people up her grumble we'd be in a better situation if we got our fed dollars back instead of them ending up in other states where the people want smaller government anyway.
So you're claiming that they "donate" $5 billion in federal aid funds per year to the other states?

On a population weighted basis that is pretty close to what would have to happen.

Yeah, I can't imagine that a densely-populated state like New York would contribute more in gas taxes than a more rural state, where people have to drive farther on a daily basis to get to work.

No doubt New York is a donor state for general tax fund revenues, but highway funding?
I didn't say anything about $5 billion.  Just that if NY got back what they put in, it'd be better off.
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kalvado

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1810 on: December 20, 2019, 11:51:52 PM »

In recent years, NYSDOT has operated on an annual budget that numbers in a few billion or so (essentially $2-3 billion + whatever PIT comes NYSDOT's way), and dwarfs NYSTA in terms of lane miles and bridge deck area, for example.
NYSDOT only has a budget of $3 billion per year?
In a state with that much population (almost 20 million)?
Shocking, isn't it.  We're also a donor state and a lot of people up her grumble we'd be in a better situation if we got our fed dollars back instead of them ending up in other states where the people want smaller government anyway.
So you're claiming that they "donate" $5 billion in federal aid funds per year to the other states?

On a population weighted basis that is pretty close to what would have to happen.

Yeah, I can't imagine that a densely-populated state like New York would contribute more in gas taxes than a more rural state, where people have to drive farther on a daily basis to get to work.

No doubt New York is a donor state for general tax fund revenues, but highway funding?
I didn't say anything about $5 billion.  Just that if NY got back what they put in, it'd be better off.
Actually I keep hearing that highway trust fund runs all red, for all states.
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Rothman

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1811 on: December 21, 2019, 01:08:00 PM »

In recent years, NYSDOT has operated on an annual budget that numbers in a few billion or so (essentially $2-3 billion + whatever PIT comes NYSDOT's way), and dwarfs NYSTA in terms of lane miles and bridge deck area, for example.
NYSDOT only has a budget of $3 billion per year?
In a state with that much population (almost 20 million)?
Shocking, isn't it.  We're also a donor state and a lot of people up her grumble we'd be in a better situation if we got our fed dollars back instead of them ending up in other states where the people want smaller government anyway.
So you're claiming that they "donate" $5 billion in federal aid funds per year to the other states?

On a population weighted basis that is pretty close to what would have to happen.

Yeah, I can't imagine that a densely-populated state like New York would contribute more in gas taxes than a more rural state, where people have to drive farther on a daily basis to get to work.

No doubt New York is a donor state for general tax fund revenues, but highway funding?
I didn't say anything about $5 billion.  Just that if NY got back what they put in, it'd be better off.
Actually I keep hearing that highway trust fund runs all red, for all states.
Well, make it run less red for NY and more red for a donee state. :D
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Alps

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1812 on: December 21, 2019, 04:01:41 PM »

Actually I keep hearing that highway trust fund runs all red, for all states.
Well, make it run less red for NY and more red for a donee state. :D
Unfortunately, that's not how our nation works. From each state according to its means, to each state according to its needs. Wait, where have I heard that before?

kalvado

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1813 on: December 21, 2019, 04:35:05 PM »

Actually I keep hearing that highway trust fund runs all red, for all states.
Well, make it run less red for NY and more red for a donee state. :D
Unfortunately, that's not how our nation works. From each state according to its means, to each state according to its needs. Wait, where have I heard that before?
In the tax code?
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KEVIN_224

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1814 on: December 21, 2019, 06:26:02 PM »

Just a fun question as it relates to the Thruway: How is the road work in the Senaca Nation section going? I know it was held up for a long time.
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Rothman

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1815 on: December 22, 2019, 08:32:59 AM »

Actually I keep hearing that highway trust fund runs all red, for all states.
Well, make it run less red for NY and more red for a donee state. :D
Unfortunately, that's not how our nation works. From each state according to its means, to each state according to its needs. Wait, where have I heard that before?
In the tax code?
...and we've come full circle to the original point: Change the tax code. :D
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machias

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1816 on: December 22, 2019, 10:51:56 AM »

Just a fun question as it relates to the Thruway: How is the road work in the Senaca Nation section going? I know it was held up for a long time.

When I drove through there a week ago I didn’t see any work in progress.
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hbelkins

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1817 on: December 22, 2019, 07:26:32 PM »

Just a fun question as it relates to the Thruway: How is the road work in the Senaca Nation section going? I know it was held up for a long time.

When I drove through there a week ago I didn’t see any work in progress.

I'm guessing pavement rehab got put on hiatus for the winter.
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1818 on: December 22, 2019, 08:52:02 PM »

At this point, they're not getting any more work done until April at the earliest. It's prime snow season in that area and the freeze/thaw cycle is a bitch.
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vdeane

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1819 on: February 17, 2020, 09:29:06 PM »

I saw the gantry for exit 21B on my way to/from the NYC area for my roadtrip yesterday.  Contrary to what's been mentioned earlier, it appears the interchange toll locations are using full gantries rather than just re-using the booths.  I also saw evidence of work starting at exits 20 and 22, as well as between exits 23 and 24 (in addition to the work that already had begun south of exit 23).
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chays

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1820 on: February 19, 2020, 03:01:49 PM »

I'm doing some research for a project about the NY Thruway's service plaza. I’m looking for some information that can put NY’s thruway stops in perspective. Are they run-of-the-mill, compared to other states? Do some toll roads have stops with more amenities (car wash? Showers? Mechanics? Non-fast food choices?). Is there one standout among rest stops? If so, I’d love to know about it.
I'm trying to get a feel for how rest stops are reinventing themselves and if that’s a common trend or not and compare how NY stands up to the other states. Any help you can provide is most appreciated!
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cl94

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1821 on: February 19, 2020, 04:12:20 PM »

Amenities in NY are pretty typical compared to other states with toll roads, as far as I have seen. A couple of fast food outlets, a coffee shop, convenience store, gas, restrooms (including 1 single-occupant unisex), tourist info, wifi is the typical set of amenities. Many locations have a farmer's market during the growing season.

-Sloatsburg (NB between 15A and 16) is by far the largest single-direction facility and the only one with two public levels. This one also has a parking garage.
-Directly opposite is Ramapo (SB between 16 and 15A), the smallest service area. This is basically a glorified McDonald's and, before the 1990s, required crossing the Thruway via a bridge to Sloatsburg for most services.
-Angola (both directions between 57A and 58) is the only facility in the median. Parking lots and fuel on the outside of the roadways, building in a wide median accessible by enclosed bridges. Angola is about the same size as Sloatsburg, but it serves both directions.
-New Baltimore (both directions between 21B and 21A) has a separate rest area/tourist info center/playground accessible only from NB.
-A closed pair of service areas is on the Berkshire Spur east of the Castleton-on-Hudson Bridge. These closed shortly after I-90 through Albany opened due to a lack of traffic.
-Combined service areas and welcome centers were planned on I-90 WB near Exit B3 and I-90 EB near Exit 61 in the 1990s, but never built. McDonald's would have been a major funding partner.
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webny99

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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1822 on: February 19, 2020, 04:22:31 PM »

Angola is the only service area that stands out to me, mainly because of the pedestrian bridges crossing the Thruway, and the fact that the food and restrooms are in the median.

IMO there's not really any other particular ones that are very unique or outstanding, at least not between the PA line and Albany. Scottsville has what I assume is a historic building of some sort on-site. I've never gotten closer than the Street View car, only because my own exit (46/I-390) is just 2 more miles down the road, so I've never had a need to stop there.
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1823 on: February 19, 2020, 06:40:39 PM »

Do the Thruway service areas not still have mechanics and repair shops?
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Re: New York State Thruway
« Reply #1824 on: February 19, 2020, 06:52:25 PM »

Angola is the only service area that stands out to me, mainly because of the pedestrian bridges crossing the Thruway, and the fact that the food and restrooms are in the median.

IMO there's not really any other particular ones that are very unique or outstanding, at least not between the PA line and Albany. Scottsville has what I assume is a historic building of some sort on-site. I've never gotten closer than the Street View car, only because my own exit (46/I-390) is just 2 more miles down the road, so I've never had a need to stop there.
I'll never forget my visit to Angola. It's the only rest area I've found similar to the IL tollway system's.

 


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