NC/SC border to be redrawn

[golden eagle]

16 South Carolinians and three from the north would be affected.

http://wtop.com/tech/2016/05/altered-state-border-redraw-leaves-16-in-different-carolina/

[Max Rockatansky]

Sounds like they are pretty much just pissing everyone off by trying to correct the surveyed lines.  Maybe a Fort Blunder type action probably is in order and ought to be easier considering it's just two states.  I'm fairly certain Congress would need to approve the state lines being redrawn regardless....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Montgomery_%28Lake_Champlain%29

[SP Cook]

The only question seems to be WHY?  OK, the border is off by a few feet from what some long dead king of England wanted it to be.  And?  Just quitclaim the lands involved to one another and let it be. 

WV and VA went through this in the 1990s, as the previously wooded land that formed the border between Jefferson County WV and Louden County VA filled up with development.  The border cites were vague and written in ye olde English.  They had the border resurveyed, which caused several tracts of land to be in two states, and caused all sorts of complexities as people lived in one state but got mail, or utilities in the other.  As I recall, the phone company was a real problem, as it was 2 different companies with no natural interchange.

WVC 29-23-3

[Max Rockatansky]

The only question seems to be WHY?  OK, the border is off by a few feet from what some long dead king of England wanted it to be.  And?  Just quitclaim the lands involved to one another and let it be. 

WV and VA went through this in the 1990s, as the previously wooded land that formed the border between Jefferson County WV and Louden County VA filled up with development.  The border cites were vague and written in ye olde English.  They had the border resurveyed, which caused several tracts of land to be in two states, and caused all sorts of complexities as people lived in one state but got mail, or utilities in the other.  As I recall, the phone company was a real problem, as it was 2 different companies with no natural interchange.

WVC 29-23-3

It's just amusing to me that something like this grabs traction by the states involved and stuff like Wendover Utah merging into Nevada and Needles, CA possibly being added into Clark County can't even get traction.  In the example I gave with Fort Blunder the U.S. actually built an entire fort in Canadian territory but it was eventually annexed into New York as part of a treaty.  I just don't get who this is serving and improving things in the slightest for these twenty something people affected.

[KEVIN_224]

A past border dispute is likely how Connecticut got it's "notch" on the northern border with Massachusetts. It's mostly with today's town of Southwick, MA and Lake Congamond.

[WashuOtaku]

The only question seems to be WHY?  OK, the border is off by a few feet from what some long dead king of England wanted it to be.  And?  Just quitclaim the lands involved to one another and let it be. 

So the article doesn't explain the whole story as to why and the answer is because South Carolina requested it.  The backstory is that Georgia and South Carolina had a border dispute regarding islands at the mouth of Savannah River.  This battle over the islands that formed and/or moved over the years went all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court.  In Georgia v. South Carolina, they confirmed the line based from the Treaty of Beaufort and that most of the islands went to Georgia, while South Carolina got more water area.  The court battle cost millions of dollars and South Carolina decided that they were not going to wait for another border dispute in the future.  So South Carolina came to North Carolina to redo the survey to confirm their mutual border; this was done over twenty years with costs only in the thousands.  When both states finally agree on the final border, they will form a compact and do not need the Federal Government involved.

TL;DR = South Carolina had a previous border dispute and decided to be proactive to avoid another.

[triplemultiplex]

Here's the spot in question on USGS topo maps.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=35.15262,-81.09208&z=15&t=T

This is the heart of matter to the locals, I imagine:

One particularly vexing problem has been the Lake Wylie Minimart convenience store. The store currently sits in South Carolina, allowing it to sell fireworks, beer and gas at least 19 cents cheaper because of lower gas taxes. The more exact boundary says it really is in North Carolina.

North Carolina's bill would allow the store to keep selling beer and wine without approval by voters in North Carolina's Gaston County and sell gasoline with South Carolina's lower motor fuels rate until the store is sold to someone else.

"North Carolina, South Carolina; whatever.  Can I still buy a case of Busch Light at 10 pm?"

[halork]

This is just stupid. The solution: The border will be where it has always been; i.e. where it has been enforced on the ground for the past 200+ years. There is no reason to make life more miserable/complicated. The only people benefiting from this are the lawyers.

[wanderer2575]

Might want to borrow an unofficial Michigan "slogan" that's been circulated e-mail lore for years:  "Nearly went to war with Ohio once, and will do it again if they pull any funny stuff."

[Max Rockatansky]

Might want to borrow an unofficial Michigan "slogan" that's been circulated e-mail lore for years:  "Nearly went to war with Ohio once, and will do it again if they pull any funny stuff."

Last I checked the general populace in Michigan still thinks it was a real war, with real battles, with losses on both sides....over Toledo. 

[CanesFan27]

Heh who's lottery tickets will they sell?  When I worked in Gastonia - our drivers would always stop at that station to buy SC lottery tickets. This was before NC began a lottery

[WashuOtaku]

Heh who's lottery tickets will they sell?  When I worked in Gastonia - our drivers would always stop at that station to buy SC lottery tickets. This was before NC began a lottery

They will continue to operate as if they were still in South Carolina, so SC lotto tickets.

[Lyon Wonder]

I'm amazed the border between Kentucky and Indiana south of Evansville along the Ohio river hasn't been redrawn since US 41 enters Kentucky before reaching the Ohio River bridges.

[Avalanchez71]

Kentucky became a state prior to Ohio and the line ends at the Ohio River.  The river once flowed through there so they get to keep that land.

[Avalanchez71]

In other news Georgia is trying to state that the state line with Tennessee should take in Chattanooga.  Tennessee stated thanks but no thanks.

[7/8]

I'm really surprised that this is happening. US courts in the past have usually ruled the "incorrect" original surveys as the official border. This is why many "straight" borders between states are not perfectly straight and still haven't been fixed. Likewise, when rivers change course, the borders remain where they were originally before the river moved.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky's northern border is the low-water mark of the Ohio River as it existed in 1792. I keep hoping that someday they will discover that in 1792, the river flowed south of what is now Jefferson County so Louisville ends up going to Indiana.

[Max Rockatansky]

It would interesting if there was a push to fix the four-corners.  Word is the monument is almost 2,000 feet east of where it should be to intersect Arizona, Colorado, Utah and New Mexico.

[vdeane]

I imagine that, with all the tourists, they're trying to avoid drawing attention to the fact that it's in the wrong spot.

[Max Rockatansky]

I imagine that, with all the tourists, they're trying to avoid drawing attention to the fact that it's in the wrong spot.

Probably, not to mention it would cost a mint to relocate the monument to the correct location.  It greatly amuses me though to tell people about the inaccuracy when they post family photos...and then ask why they didn't tell me they were going to my old stomping grounds since I could have told them about a dozen better places to go on the Plateau. 

[usends]

It would interesting if there was a push to fix the four-corners.  Word is the monument is almost 2,000 feet east of where it should be to intersect Arizona, Colorado, Utah and New Mexico.

I cringe when that subject comes up.  Four Corners was surveyed almost 150 years ago.  Given the technology of that time, and the remoteness of that location, only 2000 feet "off" was like a bulls-eye.  Our ability today to more accurately pinpoint where the marker should have been placed is irrelevant, because the legally-accepted location of the Four Corners is exactly where the monument is positioned.

That's why this whole NC/SC controversy confuses me: even if a boundary monument is not located exactly where it ought to have been (which is true in just about every case, to a greater or lesser extent), once the boundary as surveyed has been accepted by the relevant jurisdictions, that becomes the legal boundary... regardless of any future claims of inaccuracy.

[hbelkins]

"Word is ...?" ^{citation needed}

I'd never heard this before. You mean I really wasn't standing in all four states when I had my picture taken there 25 years ago? 

[Max Rockatansky]

It would interesting if there was a push to fix the four-corners.  Word is the monument is almost 2,000 feet east of where it should be to intersect Arizona, Colorado, Utah and New Mexico.

I cringe when that subject comes up.  Four Corners was surveyed almost 150 years ago.  Given the technology of that time, and the remoteness of that location, only 2000 feet "off" was like a bulls-eye.  Our ability today to more accurately pinpoint where the marker should have been placed is irrelevant, because the legally-accepted location of the Four Corners is exactly where the monument is positioned.

That's why this whole NC/SC controversy confuses me: even if a boundary monument is not located exactly where it ought to have been (which is true in just about every case, to a greater or lesser extent), once the boundary as surveyed has been accepted by the relevant jurisdictions, that becomes the legal boundary... regardless of any future claims of inaccuracy.

That's why I don't understand it either.  Why go out of the way to make just a couple local people miserable and have potentially huge negative consequences economically just to satisfy some state officials that the new survey is on the up and up.  Surveying used to be incredibly time consuming and had a variance of accuracy...basically you went out there with a stick and some measuring tools to do everything manually.  Probably the most amusing story I've ever heard about survey error was Fort Blunder:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Montgomery_(Lake_Champlain)

I should clarify...the people I'm trolling about Four Corners are family members who basically hit all touristy destinations like Disney, Sea World, ect and then get on my case saying that I do nothing but visit big holes in the ground or look at abandoned buildings.

[formulanone]

I imagine that, with all the tourists, they're trying to avoid drawing attention to the fact that it's in the wrong spot.

Probably, not to mention it would cost a mint to relocate the monument to the correct location.  It greatly amuses me though to tell people about the inaccuracy when they post family photos...and then ask why they didn't tell me they were going to my old stomping grounds since I could have told them about a dozen better places to go on the Plateau. 

Sometimes the lore is much more fun, armchair pedants be darned.

[Max Rockatansky]

"Word is ...?" ^{citation needed}

I'd never heard this before. You mean I really wasn't standing in all four states when I had my picture taken there 25 years ago? 

Usends hit on it best....legally yes it is the accepted definition but is it exact due to old survey measurements?....not so much.  So basically your photos are valid from that standpoint and now you have an interesting story to go with it.