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Author Topic: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..  (Read 31297 times)

DandyDan

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #200 on: December 08, 2018, 04:05:30 AM »

Two of them in Minnesota I would do without:
1. MN 5 with I-494 and then US 212
2. MN 60 with US 169 and then US 14.

To me, both of those highways are fundamentally different from each other on each side of the concurrency that one half should be given a new number.
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MNHighwayMan

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #201 on: December 08, 2018, 05:11:27 AM »

Two of them in Minnesota I would do without:
1. MN 5 with I-494 and then US 212
2. MN 60 with US 169 and then US 14.

To me, both of those highways are fundamentally different from each other on each side of the concurrency that one half should be given a new number.

For number one, I agree with you, and I suspect MnDOT would too, given that the route east of the airport/the Mississippi is largely a local surface road and probably a turnback candidate.

Number two, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. Honestly, I can see the argument going both ways. Breaking it into two would eliminate the only state-numbered route that crosses a border at both ends, though!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 05:14:46 AM by MNHighwayMan »
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #202 on: December 08, 2018, 07:22:16 PM »

In Ohio, there are a bunch of pointless multiplexes to take a number of routes into Cleveland's Public Square including US 42, US 322, US 422, SR 3, SR 43, SR 8, SR 14, and SR 87. I'd truncate back the multiplexed state routes and 3-digit US routes instead of overloading with a bunch of routes.

West Virginia now has the useless multiplex of US 48 with US 33 and then US 219 for 70 miles between Weston and Thomas so that all of Corridor H has a single number. US 48 also has useless multiplexes with WV 32, WV 93, WV 55, and VA 55 where the state routes could all be truncated back.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #203 on: December 09, 2018, 01:31:53 PM »

US 202 on I-95 and DE 141. Cut it back to 95 north of Wilmington, perhaps even extending it south to take over DE 202.

PA 88 should either be rerouted back through West Brownsville and off PA Turnpike 43 and US 40, or it should stick to 43 until Exit 32 and not go on 40 at all. The current routing doesn't make much sense.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #204 on: December 09, 2018, 02:31:23 PM »

In Ohio, there are a bunch of pointless multiplexes to take a number of routes into Cleveland's Public Square including US 42, US 322, US 422, SR 3, SR 43, SR 8, SR 14, and SR 87. I'd truncate back the multiplexed state routes and 3-digit US routes instead of overloading with a bunch of routes.

West Virginia now has the useless multiplex of US 48 with US 33 and then US 219 for 70 miles between Weston and Thomas so that all of Corridor H has a single number. US 48 also has useless multiplexes with WV 32, WV 93, WV 55, and VA 55 where the state routes could all be truncated back.

Most of WV 55 is concurrent with at least one other route. Prior to the advent of US 48, only the westernmost and easternmost segments, short mileage each, were standalone.

As far as US 48 goes, I suspect that either WV 32 or WV 93 will be truncated, and the other extended over existing US 219/US 48 once the four-lane west of Davis/Thomas is completed.
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gr8daynegb

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #205 on: December 10, 2018, 01:38:39 PM »

Heading back into Wisconsin......US 141 south of Abrams either runs concurrent with I-41/US-41/Wis-29 to it's termination at I-43.  I'm old fashioned to wanting US 141 to go to Milwaukee as from long ago, but as it is most of the overlap is pointless IMHO

Actually, US 141 runs alone in Green Bay along Velp from I/US-41 (I don't know which it is there) to Mather, then Dousman, across the Nitschke Bridge to Main at Monroe where it joins WI 29. It probably should be truncated at Abrams anyway.


Not reading my typing before hitting ok/send does me in again lol.  But south of Abrams split 141 is concurrent with another highway almost the whole way until it's second meeting with I-43.  I guess maybe end 141 as where WI 29/54/57 all meet if you want the designation to stay on Velp etc..  Otherwise maybe extend to Denmark to WI 96 to I-43 to maybe give some legitimacy to the Green Bay concurrency(just imaginative thinking).


Outside of interstate "prestige" I-39 is a concurrency waste of signage......but that's beating a dead horse from viewing postings here
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 09:06:13 AM by gr8daynegb »
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PHLBOS

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #206 on: December 10, 2018, 02:06:47 PM »

US 202 on I-95 and DE 141. Cut it back to 95 north of Wilmington, perhaps even extending it south to take over DE 202.
Such was already mentioned on Page 1, Reply #15 of this thread (reposted below):

US 202 and DE 141/I-95.
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bing101

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #207 on: December 11, 2018, 06:25:13 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_4

Why does Interstate 4 in Florida needs to be concurrent with FL-400 for the entire route. What is the point of this concurrency?
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kphoger

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #208 on: December 11, 2018, 06:50:01 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_4

Why does Interstate 4 in Florida needs to be concurrent with FL-400 for the entire route. What is the point of this concurrency?

Isn't that just the way Florida does things?  I-95 in Florida is concurrent with unsigned FL-9 and FL-9A for its entirety.
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formulanone

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #209 on: December 11, 2018, 08:56:41 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_4

Why does Interstate 4 in Florida needs to be concurrent with FL-400 for the entire route. What is the point of this concurrency?

Isn't that just the way Florida does things?  I-95 in Florida is concurrent with unsigned FL-9 and FL-9A for its entirety.

The concurrencies are effectively just for internal purposes. After the 1945 Renumbering, Florida's x00 roads (100 to 700) were designated as diagonal corridors; many of the US Routes were later extended along them later on. Some, such as SR 9 or SR 93, were reserved for future use. With the exception of speeding tickets, construction projects, and roadgeeks...these numbers rarely see the light of day.

There is the little section of FL 400 from I-95 to US 1 which isn't designated as I-4.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 09:00:55 PM by formulanone »
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bing101

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #210 on: December 11, 2018, 09:39:49 PM »

How about I-580 Nevada its completely co-signed with US-395 in Nevada for the entire route from Carson City to Reno is it unnecessary or is there supposed to be I-11 approaching Reno at some point though.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #211 on: December 12, 2018, 02:08:44 AM »

How about I-580 Nevada its completely co-signed with US-395 in Nevada for the entire route from Carson City to Reno is it unnecessary or is there supposed to be I-11 approaching Reno at some point though.

I-580 was unsigned until the last 10-15 years when it was extended to Carson City. Itís been mentioned as the future path of 11, but as much as interests want it thereís really no need for it north of Las Vegas. I hope they donít waste a bunch of money on an unneeded project like that.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #212 on: December 12, 2018, 08:00:55 AM »

How about I-580 Nevada its completely co-signed with US-395 in Nevada for the entire route from Carson City to Reno is it unnecessary or is there supposed to be I-11 approaching Reno at some point though.

I-580 was unsigned until the last 10-15 years when it was extended to Carson City. Itís been mentioned as the future path of 11, but as much as interests want it thereís really no need for it north of Las Vegas. I hope they donít waste a bunch of money on an unneeded project like that.

Personally Iíve never had an issue passing Land Trains on US 95 between Fallon and Mercury on the two-lane sections of the road, it truly is a desolate stretch perfectly adequate as is. 

Henry

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #213 on: December 12, 2018, 02:36:52 PM »

I-80 and I-294 is my nomination for this. While the former continues east to the IN border and beyond, the latter ends at the I-94/IL 394 junction. Just an extension of a 3di for the sake of having both ends at its parent 2di.
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frankenroad

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #214 on: December 12, 2018, 06:01:37 PM »

OH-3 from Columbus to Cincinnati.  All of it is multiplexed with either US-22 (Cincinnati to Washington CH) or US-62 (Washington CH to Columbus).   Historically, OH-3 precedes the US numbering system, and many sections of it are called 3-C highway (Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati).   But let's be real - anyone traveling between Columbus and Cincinnati will use I-71 anyway.

OH-3 from Columbus to Cleveland is mostly independent, other than a 24 mile overlap with US-36 and a short overlap with US-30.
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Super Mateo

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #215 on: December 12, 2018, 07:14:32 PM »

I-80 and I-294 is my nomination for this. While the former continues east to the IN border and beyond, the latter ends at the I-94/IL 394 junction. Just an extension of a 3di for the sake of having both ends at its parent 2di.

It's also a way to justify sticking a toll on the mainline for I-80.  The tollway logically should end at I-80, but IL loves toll money.  I have no problem paying the toll and it's inexpensive, but it's a sneaky way to trick people onto the toll system, even if the tollway was built first.  All they would have to do is not toll the ramps to/from I-80 for I-80 to be free on the mainline.  Obviously not going to happen, though.

Of what I have been on:
-US 25/42/127:  US 25 terminates at the OH border, making US 25 unneeded on this concurrency.  The easiest solution would be to truncate US 25 back to the US 42/127 intersection, but I would actually terminate US 42 there instead and change US 42 in OH to US 25.
-I 865/US 52:  No need for an Interstate number on a glorified ramp.  US 52 is fine there.
-I 73/74:  Mentioned earlier, but I don't see why NC needs I-74.  The part NW of Mt. Airy can be I-777, or just a state route; US 52 has the segment from Mt. Airy to Winston-Salem; I-x73, x85, or x40 can cover the High Point section (I'd do 385 myself); US 74 works fine on the Laurinburg section; and the 73 and 77 overlaps can be dropped.
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Bitmapped

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #216 on: December 12, 2018, 08:31:07 PM »

In Ohio, there are a bunch of pointless multiplexes to take a number of routes into Cleveland's Public Square including US 42, US 322, US 422, SR 3, SR 43, SR 8, SR 14, and SR 87. I'd truncate back the multiplexed state routes and 3-digit US routes instead of overloading with a bunch of routes.

West Virginia now has the useless multiplex of US 48 with US 33 and then US 219 for 70 miles between Weston and Thomas so that all of Corridor H has a single number. US 48 also has useless multiplexes with WV 32, WV 93, WV 55, and VA 55 where the state routes could all be truncated back.

Most of WV 55 is concurrent with at least one other route. Prior to the advent of US 48, only the westernmost and easternmost segments, short mileage each, were standalone.

As far as US 48 goes, I suspect that either WV 32 or WV 93 will be truncated, and the other extended over existing US 219/US 48 once the four-lane west of Davis/Thomas is completed.

WV 90 would be the most logical route to extend over the current US 219 alignment. It wouldn't have a long multiplex with US 48 and wouldn't be doubling back on itself like WV 32.

Frankly, though,  I don't think there's a real need to keep the existing US 219 signed as a state route once Corridor H is completed. It's closely paralleled by the new route and doesn't have independent utility other than to serve downtown Parsons. I wouldn't mind seeing WV 72 rerouted to end at US 219 on the north/east side of the future Parsons bypass. Downgrade the rest of WV 72 to a county route since it is not useful for through traffic.
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DJ Particle

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #217 on: December 13, 2018, 01:53:03 AM »

1. MN 5 with I-494 and then US 212

They already truncated MN-5 back from MN-36 to MN-120 in the last few years (I guess they did that after they realized they weren't continuing that expressway west of 120)

There's still that piece of MN-5 freeway between I-494 and W 7th St.  Maybe an I-94 3di?  I-794?  After all, as a connector to an airport and a major military base, it does fit within the "crucial infrastructure" guidelines.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #218 on: December 13, 2018, 10:13:20 AM »

All of Maine.

 :-D :clap:

Any concurrencies where one route terminates at the end of it. Seriously, truncate that route back.

Disagree, and here is my perfect example for why:

I-80 and I-294 is my nomination for this. While the former continues east to the IN border and beyond, the latter ends at the I-94/IL 394 junction. Just an extension of a 3di for the sake of having both ends at its parent 2di.

I want people from NW Indiana and beyond to easily find the beltway around the Chicago area on their way to Wisconsin.  I want route numbering systems to be easy to use by even the dumbest, GPS-lacking hack.  It's easier for someone of any level of intelligence to remember 94-294-94 than 94-80-294-94.

My contribution to this thread is IL-13 and IL-127 in southern Illinois.  The section of IL-13 west of Pinckneyville and the section of IL-13 east of Murphysboro should be separate routes.  (The southern section from Murphysboro to Old Shawneetown should be IL-13, and it should absorb the section of IL-149 west of Murphysboro, to make one big straight road.  The northern section from Pinckneyville to near Belleville should be renumbered.)
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kphoger

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #219 on: December 13, 2018, 10:30:32 AM »

My contribution to this thread is IL-13 and IL-127 in southern Illinois.  The section of IL-13 west of Pinckneyville and the section of IL-13 east of Murphysboro should be separate routes.  (The southern section from Murphysboro to Old Shawneetown should be IL-13, and it should absorb the section of IL-149 west of Murphysboro, to make one big straight road.  The northern section from Pinckneyville to near Belleville should be renumbered.)

I'm down with that.  I used to do a LOT of driving in southern Illinois (I was a delivery driver based out of Herrin, and I regularly topped 300 miles per day), and I wouldn't even really consider using IL-13 to get fromósayóFreeburg to Harrisburg.  I would go through Benton instead, either by way of Sesser or I-64.
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US 89

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #220 on: December 13, 2018, 11:14:39 AM »

Any concurrencies where one route terminates at the end of it. Seriously, truncate that route back.

This is true in most cases, like the US 277 northern terminus (which should be at US 62 in Chickasha) and the US 412 western terminus, which should be at US 64 in Guymon; US 412 has no reason to exist in New Mexico.

But I'm going to have to agree with Paul: there are cases where this does not apply, and my example would be the US 40/189 concurrency east of Salt Lake. US 40 is over 2000 miles long, so it seems just a little bit wrong to end it at a minor 3dus in Heber City. Keeping it for 15 more miles allows the route to end at a major interstate (I-80), which is undoubtedly where almost all westbound 40 traffic is headed.

Not to mention the fact that the 40/189 overlap is almost universally known as US 40, and 189 wasn't even signed on that overlap until summer 2017.
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paulthemapguy

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #221 on: December 13, 2018, 12:30:57 PM »

^ I totally agree with all of this.  There are cases where a concurrency at a route's end makes sense, and other cases where it doesn't.  US412's west end can be truncated, for example, but I would leave US40 on US189 and I would leave I-294 on I-80.
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hbelkins

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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #222 on: December 13, 2018, 07:53:27 PM »

WV 90 would be the most logical route to extend over the current US 219 alignment. It wouldn't have a long multiplex with US 48 and wouldn't be doubling back on itself like WV 32.

You mean like WV 62 does when it was routed over the old US 33 alignment?

[/quote]
Frankly, though,  I don't think there's a real need to keep the existing US 219 signed as a state route once Corridor H is completed. It's closely paralleled by the new route and doesn't have independent utility other than to serve downtown Parsons. I wouldn't mind seeing WV 72 rerouted to end at US 219 on the north/east side of the future Parsons bypass. Downgrade the rest of WV 72 to a county route since it is not useful for through traffic.
[/quote]

I figured they would keep it as a state route because of the high school. I think the only reason that WV 72 is a primary state route beyond Hendricks is because 1.) West Virginia doesn't leave state routes hanging, and 2.) in my experience, every incorporated place in the state is served by a primary state route. If there is an incorporated municipality that's served only by a county route, I'm unaware of it. I think this may be the same reason WV 71 is a primary state route, so it can serve Matoaka.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #223 on: December 16, 2018, 02:04:00 AM »



How about I-580 Nevada its completely co-signed with US-395 in Nevada for the entire route from Carson City to Reno is it unnecessary or is there supposed to be I-11 approaching Reno at some point though.

I-580 was unsigned until the last 10-15 years when it was extended to Carson City. Itís been mentioned as the future path of 11, but as much as interests want it thereís really no need for it north of Las Vegas. I hope they donít waste a bunch of money on an unneeded project like that.

I'll note that I-580 was not actually signed until 2012. While it was studied as one possible corridor for the northward extension of I-11 from Las Vegas, 580 is no longer being considered as an option to connect I-11 to I-80.

In this vein, I-515 has also had a kinda pointless overlap with US 93 & 95 in Las Vegas & Henderson since 1994/1995.
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Re: Unnecessary Concurrencies, Name them..
« Reply #224 on: January 21, 2019, 11:37:18 PM »

One more from Minnesota, since I was up there this weekend. MN 55 and I-94. The Olson Memorial Highway section westward to North Dakota should keep the MN 55 designation, but the Hiawatha Avenue section eastward to Hastings should get renumbered, probably to MN 155.
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