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Author Topic: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)  (Read 45494 times)

mightyace

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I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« on: December 22, 2009, 08:03:31 PM »

Apparently, some powers that be want to build the I-95 bridge over the Delaware River as a toll bridge.  Of course, it will probably be I-195 before said bridge is completed whether free or toll.

PA/NJ I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement proposed for toll financing
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 06:05:05 PM by mightyace »
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 07:25:47 AM »

That will probably redirect some traffic via the US 1 bridge in Trenton.

I don't like the current trend to just randomly toll anything they can't finance otherwise. Of course, it's necessary to finance replacement/repaving/widening, but it also leads to an undesired change in traffic patterns. There are more than enough people willing to drive a few miles extra to avoid a toll bridge.

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 09:26:54 AM »

Quote
That will probably redirect some traffic via the US 1 bridge in Trenton.

Northbound, yes.  Southbound, not so much, since the US 1 bridge has long been tolled southbound.
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2009, 06:39:19 PM »

Quote
That will probably redirect some traffic via the US 1 bridge in Trenton.

Northbound, yes.  Southbound, not so much, since the US 1 bridge has long been tolled southbound.


If the new I-95 (future I-195) bridge is tolled, I'm guessing it will likely be tolled in only one direction as well.
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2009, 07:00:16 PM »

Probably.  Southbound would be the more likely direction, in keeping with the "standard policy" of tolling only when you leave New Jersey and not when you enter.
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2009, 12:52:51 AM »

Well this would put more cars onto the small non-tolled Trusses bridges in the area , or it could lead to more Rail Commuting on the 2 lines that Service the Area. 
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2009, 09:07:50 AM »

Depends on how people value their time.  Several of the small non-tolled bridges are a pain in the tail to get to.  People will pay a resonable toll if it means avoiding those narrow, time-consuming roads.
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Alps

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2009, 12:44:26 AM »

Depends on how people value their time.  Several of the small non-tolled bridges are a pain in the tail to get to.  People will pay a resonable toll if it means avoiding those narrow, time-consuming roads.


The US 1 "free" bridge has been set up to be difficult to get to SB and avoid the toll - the last exit doesn't allow left turns.  Calhoun St. is easier to find but more time-consuming.  Next bridge up is Washington's Crossing, which doesn't make sense for many travelers.

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2009, 10:36:25 AM »

I don't think any less traffic will use the bridge if it is tolled. The free alternatives are narrow and harder to access as others have pointed out. Its unfortunate though because I always favored the I-95 span because of the lack of a fee...

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2009, 10:42:11 AM »

O.K., I didn't know the US 1 bridge was tolled. It sounded to good to be true in the first place ;)

If the US 1 bridge was toll free, it would be much easier to avoid tolls on I-95. (except when you're living very close to the bridge, and the detour becomes too long).

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 09:47:47 PM »

TOLLROADSnews: US issues FONSI for big Delaware River I-95 bridge rebuild north of Trenton NJ

Quote
2012-06-18: Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission (DRJTBC) have received the federal OK for the rebuild of the Scudder Falls Bridge and modernization of the Interstate on both the Pennsylvania and New Jersey sides of the river. This is Commission's largest current capital project.

Quote
The Federal Highway Administration has issued a Finding Of No Significant Impact (or FONSI) as requested by the DRJTBC.

Quote
FHWA says the documentation provided by DRJTBC show "there is no practicable alternative" to the project as proposed and that DRJTBC has committed to "all practicable ,easures to minimize harm  to natural, cultural and socioeconomic resources."

Quote
It will be redesignated I-295 when the Pennsylvania Turnpike completes a major interchange rebuild at its far eastern end (downriver) and allows I-95 to cross directly to the Pearl Harbor spur of the New Jersey Turnpike, then north to New York City on the Turnpike.
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Alps

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 10:24:11 PM »



Quote
It will be redesignated I-295 when the Pennsylvania Turnpike completes a major interchange rebuild at its far eastern end (downriver) and allows I-95 to cross directly to the Pearl Harbor spur of the New Jersey Turnpike, then north to New York City on the Turnpike.
False, but that's what you get from a blog. I-195.

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2012, 10:17:25 AM »

It was speculated that it would be I-295 before I-195 was announced; someone must have not gotten the memo!
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Compulov

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2012, 10:52:25 AM »

I take the Scudders Falls Bridge every day and I'll probably continue to do so after it's tolled because it's convenient. They also have talked about (not sure if it's set in stone) going with all electronic (EZ-Pass/Photo) tolling, which should keep the traffic moving. My only issue is with how the DRJTBC spends money. If they can afford to give grants to municipalities for road projects, then I'd much rather they lower the tolls and keep the money they'd otherwise give away. While I know it's a completely political move (keep the residents of those towns which you are taxing with your toll bridge happy), it doesn't make it any less annoying.
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2012, 09:25:58 PM »

Quote
“You can fix the bridge, and even add lanes on it, without spending $300 million,” said Jeff Tittel, chapter director for the New Jersey Sierra Club. “There are alternatives that could be done that could be a lot cheaper.”
Quote
Tittel also expressed concerns related to the air pollution from lane merges on each side of the river that would be created, as well as the impact that construction of the bridge would have on the bottom of the river, and wildlife there.

First, I have to believe that, as someone who isn't an engineer, that it wouldn't be feasible (if at all safe) to try and tack more road deck onto a structure that's over 50 years old and which was never designed for it.
Second, how is the air pollution going to be any worse than is probably there now? I would think the fact that you have cars constantly having to stop and go due to the non-existant merge lanes there has gotta cause a lot more pollution (not to mention burn a lot more fuel) than a more free-flowing interchange where merges occur at freeway speeds, even if you add in additional traffic. Does the Sierra Club have this delusion that if you don't build the new bridge, that the traffic is going to magically stop being an issue there?

Quote
New Jersey Sen. Michael Doherty (R-23) issued a statement yesterday about what he described as a “boondoggle of a project.”
“The Scudder Falls Bridge replacement project is a solution in search of a problem,” he said, asserting in particular that the toll for the bridge has the potential to displace traffic to river bridges elsewhere and perhaps result in toll hikes in those places, leading to more headaches for commuters.

While I can understand this concern, are people going to really be that willing to drive up to Washington's Crossing or down to Calhoun St or Bridge St)? "Solution in search of a problem?" Senator, do you actually *drive* on this stretch of road during rush hour? Have you ever sat in the mile+ backup which is caused because of the significantly substandard interchange and narrowing of the road from 3 lanes to 2?

Ignorance drives me insane.
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Alps

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2012, 09:29:04 PM »


Quote
New Jersey Sen. Michael Doherty (R-23) issued a statement yesterday about what he described as a “boondoggle of a project.”
“The Scudder Falls Bridge replacement project is a solution in search of a problem,” he said, asserting in particular that the toll for the bridge has the potential to displace traffic to river bridges elsewhere and perhaps result in toll hikes in those places, leading to more headaches for commuters.

While I can understand this concern, are people going to really be that willing to drive up to Washington's Crossing or down to Calhoun St or Bridge St)? "Solution in search of a problem?" Senator, do you actually *drive* on this stretch of road during rush hour? Have you ever sat in the mile+ backup which is caused because of the significantly substandard interchange and narrowing of the road from 3 lanes to 2?

Ignorance drives me insane.

Dear district 23: Vote this moron out of office. It's one of the only projects we can get done that actually contributes to its own funding.

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2012, 10:19:06 PM »

Quote
It will be redesignated I-295 when the Pennsylvania Turnpike completes a major interchange rebuild at its far eastern end (downriver) and allows I-95 to cross directly to the Pearl Harbor spur of the New Jersey Turnpike, then north to New York City on the Turnpike.
False, but that's what you get from a blog. I-195.

The author actually appreciates corrections from knowledgeable sources.
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2012, 08:57:37 PM »

Quote
It will be redesignated I-295 when the Pennsylvania Turnpike completes a major interchange rebuild at its far eastern end (downriver) and allows I-95 to cross directly to the Pearl Harbor spur of the New Jersey Turnpike, then north to New York City on the Turnpike.
False, but that's what you get from a blog. I-195.

The author actually appreciates corrections from knowledgeable sources.
Must have looked at Tim Reichard's site.
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2012, 02:20:26 PM »


First, I have to believe that, as someone who isn't an engineer, that it wouldn't be feasible (if at all safe) to try and tack more road deck onto a structure that's over 50 years old and which was never designed for it.

For an example of this, you won't even have to travel 5 miles south.  The US 1 bridge - owned by the same authority - recently was widened from 5 lanes to 6 lanes.  This bridge.  It was opened in 1952 and widened within the past 5 years or so.  They knocked out some of the original stone structure and put 'wings' on the side to widen the bridge deck about 6' - 10' on both side of the bridge to add the 6th lane.

So...it can be done. 

Having said that, in this case in order to do the same thing, the present bridge would have to be dedicated to Northbound or Southbound traffic, requiring the opposing direction to swerve out to the new bridge.  While that in itself isn't a major issue, the existing roads, houses and/or bridges in the area would suffer, which is the main issue.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 06:59:04 PM by Steve »
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Alps

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2012, 07:00:30 PM »

Having said that, in this case in order to do the same thing, the present bridge would have to be dedicated to Northbound or Southbound traffic, requiring the opposing direction to swerve out to the new bridge.  While that in itself isn't a major issue, the existing roads, houses and/or bridges in the area would suffer, which is the main issue.

Actually, it would be pretty easy to build a new bridge to the south of the existing one and tie the freeway in on both sides without really disrupting anything. Check out the aerials.

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2012, 07:15:46 PM »


First, I have to believe that, as someone who isn't an engineer, that it wouldn't be feasible (if at all safe) to try and tack more road deck onto a structure that's over 50 years old and which was never designed for it.

For an example of this, you won't even have to travel 5 miles south.  The US 1 bridge - owned by the same authority - recently was widened from 5 lanes to 6 lanes.  This bridge.  It was opened in 1952 and widened within the past 5 years or so.  They knocked out some of the original stone structure and put 'wings' on the side to widen the bridge deck about 6' - 10' on both side of the bridge to add the 6th lane.

So...it can be done. 

Having said that, in this case in order to do the same thing, the present bridge would have to be dedicated to Northbound or Southbound traffic, requiring the opposing direction to swerve out to the new bridge.  While that in itself isn't a major issue, the existing roads, houses and/or bridges in the area would suffer, which is the main issue.


If you look at the two spans, the scudder falls bridge really lacks any stone to expand on.



US1 Bridge Post expansion:



Pre expansion:



Notice how the deck does not go out over the pier as much as the scudder falls bridge?
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NJRoadfan

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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2012, 07:46:03 PM »

The US 1 "free" bridge has been set up to be difficult to get to SB and avoid the toll - the last exit doesn't allow left turns.  Calhoun St. is easier to find but more time-consuming.  Next bridge up is Washington's Crossing, which doesn't make sense for many travelers.

(yes I know I'm quoting an old post)

The left turn ban at the Warren St. exit must have been recent. I used to take it all the time when I was in the area. The alternate route isn't so bad though, just take Shepherd St. and make a left onto William Treat Place to get back to Bridge St.
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2012, 10:07:06 PM »

Is Trenton the closest that a free and toll bridge completely crossing the same river get?
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Re: I-95 Delaware River Scudder Falls bridge replacement (toll?)
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2012, 10:18:45 PM »

Is Trenton the closest that a free and toll bridge completely crossing the same river get?

can't imagine much closer, unless you want to count two separate spans of a bridge as different bridges... i.e. you pay a toll in one direction, but not the other, on a twin bridge setup.

I believe I-295 across the Delaware does this?  I simply cannot remember if there is a toll in precisely one direction, though.
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