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Author Topic: Virginia plans to toll I-81  (Read 14833 times)

sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #225 on: January 28, 2019, 01:29:30 AM »

Police departments do not routinely ticket for 5 mph over.  The courts would be overloaded and would object big time.  I very rarely see speeding enforcement in US-58 on on I-295.  Speedaholics have been making these claims for decades, and if they were true the state government would have put a stop to it.
How often do you use US-58? From Richmond, I wouldn't imagine that often, or ever. I-95 takes you through. I use it plenty, and I see police enforcement all the time. I know somebody who utilizes I-295 twice a week, and they almost always see at least 2 police officers setting up radar. AAA has called that speed trap out before for making over $2 million per year.

It's not "speedaholics" making the claims about enforcement, it's facts. If in theory you were to set up cameras on the US-58 bypass and record over a 24 hour period, you would see the heavy enforcement, the numerous of people pulled over, etc.

And when you use the term "speedaholics", you make the claim sound like a reckless driver, in which, I rarely see on US-58. All the traffic stops I'm aware of, and I've spoken to people who have been pulled over for doing only 5-7 over, were not in any way reckless, just simply around 65 - 67 MPH, which might I say, that highway can safely handle 70 MPH. It's 90's design, wide curves, limited-access, wide lanes, and wide shoulders. There's no safety concern, it's revenue generation.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 01:32:38 AM by sprjus4 »
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #226 on: January 28, 2019, 01:36:35 AM »

Hopewell -


2:26, people pulled over on both sides of the highway, extremely dangerous.


0:35, a whole video about it.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #227 on: January 28, 2019, 01:39:26 AM »

Where do you get these obsessions that are manifesting in several different areas here?  Are you Rush Wickes?
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #228 on: January 28, 2019, 06:27:58 AM »

Police departments do not routinely ticket for 5 mph over.  The courts would be overloaded and would object big time.  I very rarely see speeding enforcement in US-58 on on I-295.  Speedaholics have been making these claims for decades, and if they were true the state government would have put a stop to it.
How often do you use US-58? From Richmond, I wouldn't imagine that often, or ever. I-95 takes you through. I use it plenty, and I see police enforcement all the time. I know somebody who utilizes I-295 twice a week, and they almost always see at least 2 police officers setting up radar. AAA has called that speed trap out before for making over $2 million per year.

It's not "speedaholics" making the claims about enforcement, it's facts. If in theory you were to set up cameras on the US-58 bypass and record over a 24 hour period, you would see the heavy enforcement, the numerous of people pulled over, etc.

And when you use the term "speedaholics", you make the claim sound like a reckless driver, in which, I rarely see on US-58. All the traffic stops I'm aware of, and I've spoken to people who have been pulled over for doing only 5-7 over, were not in any way reckless, just simply around 65 - 67 MPH, which might I say, that highway can safely handle 70 MPH. It's 90's design, wide curves, limited-access, wide lanes, and wide shoulders. There's no safety concern, it's revenue generation.

However, I used US 58 quite regularly when I was stationed in Norfolk and I had more trips WITHOUT seeing cops than I did with.  Emporia has a reputation, but my experience never jived with that reputation...I've seen more Greensville County cops than I did Emporia cops.  And even when I'd see a cop, they'd ignore me when I was going 6-8 over the limit.

As for I-295, the City of Hopewell is what has the reputation for setting up the "speed trap" there.  Though I couldn't say much about that because I've only taken 295 a few times.

My one speeding ticket in the state of Virginia (in 10 years of living or being stationed there) happened in Charles City...and that's because I turned onto VA 5 thinking it was 55 MPH when it was really 45 MPH.  It was during my court hearing that I learned (as I sat and listened to other traffic cases) that the 20 MPH over reckless driving isn't automatic...it's at the discretion of the ticketing officer.

« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:30:53 AM by froggie »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #229 on: January 28, 2019, 10:40:56 AM »

Hopewell -


2:26, people pulled over on both sides of the highway, extremely dangerous.


This is what I saw:

Guy in middle lane, failing to keep right.

Guy possibly holding camera while driving, rather than just keeping both hands on the wheel.

Guy passing stopped cars on the left and right shoulder.  We don't know if there was a minor accident, registration issues, or if speeding, the speed at which they were pulled over.  If they were doing 97 mph, then it wasn't a speed trap.  They were just driving too fast.

As far as pulling over on both shoulders, the officer has no control over how the car is going to pull over.  Once they're stopped, it's better to leave them on the shoulder they're on, rather than trying to get them to cross over onto the other side of the highway.

Love the assumptions though.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #230 on: January 28, 2019, 10:47:33 AM »

Hopewell -


2:26, people pulled over on both sides of the highway, extremely dangerous.


This is what I saw:

Guy in middle lane, failing to keep right.

Guy possibly holding camera while driving, rather than just keeping both hands on the wheel.

Guy passing stopped cars on the left and right shoulder.  We don't know if there was a minor accident, registration issues, or if speeding, the speed at which they were pulled over.  If they were doing 97 mph, then it wasn't a speed trap.  They were just driving too fast.

As far as pulling over on both shoulders, the officer has no control over how the car is going to pull over.  Once they're stopped, it's better to leave them on the shoulder they're on, rather than trying to get them to cross over onto the other side of the highway.

Love the assumptions though.

This is not an assumption, the "Move Over" law is strictly enforced in VA, had one of those tickets despite having a vehicle next to me, stupid Dinwiddie County Mounty.  If you travel through VA make sure you pull over 1 lane or have a ton of traffic around you and slow down.
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #231 on: January 28, 2019, 11:44:07 AM »

I’ve never seen the “Move Over” law enforced in Virginia.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #232 on: January 28, 2019, 11:54:09 AM »

This is not an assumption, the "Move Over" law is strictly enforced in VA, had one of those tickets despite having a vehicle next to me, stupid Dinwiddie County Mounty.  If you travel through VA make sure you pull over 1 lane or have a ton of traffic around you and slow down.

You didn't view the video, did you? 

This has nothing to do with moving over for a cop.  The driver was in the middle lane for the entire 3 minute video.  A truck even passed him on the right, then moved into the middle lane when he approached the cop on the side of the road.

So, the driver disobeyed the keep right except to pass courtesy/law.  And because the center lane is a truck's passing lane, the trucker was forced to pass this car on the right. 
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #233 on: January 28, 2019, 12:01:49 PM »

Fluor Virginia Inc. had a proposal in 2003 to add two lanes in the median of I-81 for $1.8 billion by 2011 for the entire length of the route, under the TEA-21 ISRRPP pilot project, and to pay for it entirely with tolls on cars and trucks.  Too bad that it wasn't supported enough to go forward.  Now they are looking at least $7 billion for a project like that due to the astronomical increases in highway construction costs.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #234 on: January 28, 2019, 12:21:27 PM »

Fluor Virginia Inc. had a proposal in 2003 to add two lanes in the median of I-81 for $1.8 billion by 2011 for the entire length of the route, under the TEA-21 ISRRPP pilot project, and to pay for it entirely with tolls on cars and trucks.  Too bad that it wasn't supported enough to go forward.  Now they are looking at least $7 billion for a project like that due to the astronomical increases in highway construction costs.

Honestly, I couldn't see it being that cheap back just 15 years ago.  I think that would've been a very lowball estimate that would've caused a lot of negative issues when it couldn't be completed for that amount.
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LM117

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #235 on: January 28, 2019, 12:30:55 PM »

Police departments do not routinely ticket for 5 mph over.  The courts would be overloaded and would object big time.  There is plenty of "harvest" at 20+ mph over.  A Ford Police Interceptor has no difficulty getting someone at 100 mph or more.  I rarely see speeding enforcement in US-58 or on I-295.  Speedaholics have been making these claims for decades, and if they were true the state government would have put a stop to it years ago.

The General Assembly did try to stop it with a budget amendment in 2012 that reduced the amount of ticket revenue localities could keep, but Hopewell and other revenue-starved towns made such a stink about it that the spineless General Assembly eventually repealed that amendment after Hopewell delegate Riley Ingram pushed for it.

https://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 12:36:23 PM by LM117 »
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oscar

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #236 on: January 28, 2019, 12:44:54 PM »

This has nothing to do with moving over for a cop.  The driver was in the middle lane for the entire 3 minute video.  A truck even passed him on the right, then moved into the middle lane when he approached the cop on the side of the road.

So, the driver disobeyed the keep right except to pass courtesy/law.  And because the center lane is a truck's passing lane, the trucker was forced to pass this car on the right. 

Virginia law doesn't prohibit camping out in the middle lane, so long as other drivers can pass on either side. See https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-842.1/ (drivers in left lane, and abreast of other traffic, must yield to overtaking traffic when safe to do so); https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-842/ (drivers must move right for overtaking traffic unless passing on the right is possible and permitted); https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-841/ (governing when passing on the right is permitted).

Whether courtesy calls for drivers to stay out of the middle lane except when passing is another story. But if there is such a courtesy rule, it's not widely known or obeyed.
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WillWeaverRVA

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #237 on: January 28, 2019, 01:38:56 PM »

I’ve never seen the “Move Over” law enforced in Virginia.

Chesterfield County Police has set up "move over traps" in various places within the county over the past few weeks to enforce the law.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #238 on: January 28, 2019, 01:55:00 PM »

I’ve never seen the “Move Over” law enforced in Virginia.

I have seen it enforced by Fairfax County Police and  by the VSP.  Note that I did not turn around and go back to the officer doing the stop and inquire as to the reason for it, but I think my assumption is reasonable.
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1995hoo

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #239 on: January 28, 2019, 02:16:04 PM »

Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t saying they don’t enforce it, just that I’d never seen it enforced, and the reason for that comment was because of goobnav’s post implying that it’s somehow enforced in a draconian manner.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #240 on: January 28, 2019, 02:48:13 PM »

Police departments do not routinely ticket for 5 mph over.  The courts would be overloaded and would object big time.  There is plenty of "harvest" at 20+ mph over.  A Ford Police Interceptor has no difficulty getting someone at 100 mph or more.  I rarely see speeding enforcement in US-58 or on I-295.  Speedaholics have been making these claims for decades, and if they were true the state government would have put a stop to it years ago.

The General Assembly did try to stop it with a budget amendment in 2012 that reduced the amount of ticket revenue localities could keep, but Hopewell and other revenue-starved towns made such a stink about it that the spineless General Assembly eventually repealed that amendment after Hopewell delegate Riley Ingram pushed for it.

https://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile
No, it's all baloney. Remember, no locality in Virginia speed traps.  :no:
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #241 on: January 28, 2019, 02:51:50 PM »

Guy passing stopped cars on the left and right shoulder.  We don't know if there was a minor accident, registration issues, or if speeding, the speed at which they were pulled over.  If they were doing 97 mph, then it wasn't a speed trap.  They were just driving too fast.
Once again, people are pulled here on a daily basis. I don't see that anywhere else on Virginia interstates. You think that registration issues or minor accidents only happen right here out of the entire state? This stretch of I-295 is fairly safe, and has no safety issues. There's no reason for the constant patrolling. Not to mention, it's Hopewell Police patrolling, not even Virginia State Police. Seems odd to me. And when you're out on a daily basis clocking everybody's speed and making over $2 million per year in speeding revenue, that's called a speed trap in case you don't know.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #242 on: January 28, 2019, 03:03:09 PM »

In an effort to steer this thread back on topic.

POLL: 92% of Southwest Virginians Opposed to I-81 Tolls

Quote from: Appalachian Magazine Article
A new poll conducted by Appalachian Magazine between the dates of January 25-28, reveals that the overwhelming majority of respondents are opposed to a bipartisan proposal, which includes support from the state’s Democratic governor, as well as leading Republicans, that will effectively turn Interstate 81 into a toll road.

Of the 367 respondents (based primarily in Wythe & Smyth Counties) to the Appalachian Magazine-sponsored online poll, featured here, who were asked, “Virginia legislators are considering placing tolls on I-81. What is your opinion?” 92% of them answered “I oppose tolls on I-81”, while only 8% answered “I support tolls on I-81”.

The poll comes after considerable debate initiated by Ralph Northman, Governor of Virginia, who is pushing a $2.2 billion proposal for critical improvements along the 325-mile stretch of Interstate highway in a bid to make what supporters declare as “necessary improvements” to the roadway.
  :popcorn:
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #243 on: January 28, 2019, 03:05:56 PM »

In an effort to steer this thread back on topic.

POLL: 92% of Southwest Virginians Opposed to I-81 Tolls

Quote from: Appalachian Magazine Article
A new poll conducted by Appalachian Magazine between the dates of January 25-28, reveals that the overwhelming majority of respondents are opposed to a bipartisan proposal, which includes support from the state’s Democratic governor, as well as leading Republicans, that will effectively turn Interstate 81 into a toll road.

Of the 367 respondents (based primarily in Wythe & Smyth Counties) to the Appalachian Magazine-sponsored online poll, featured here, who were asked, “Virginia legislators are considering placing tolls on I-81. What is your opinion?” 92% of them answered “I oppose tolls on I-81”, while only 8% answered “I support tolls on I-81”.

The poll comes after considerable debate initiated by Ralph Northman, Governor of Virginia, who is pushing a $2.2 billion proposal for critical improvements along the 325-mile stretch of Interstate highway in a bid to make what supporters declare as “necessary improvements” to the roadway.
  :popcorn:
The tolling will likely go nowhere for many years, as much as they want to push for it. This will be fun to watch  :popcorn:
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #244 on: January 28, 2019, 03:10:15 PM »

How many of those 92% would support a toll on I-95 in Virginia? And then ask Richmond about I-95 and I-81. In Richmond, I-95 will have 8% support, while I-81 will have higher support (although probably still below 50%).

I am also wondering who will be blamed if it passes. The legislature is Republican, but the governor is a Democrat (and actually has power unlike the governor of North Carolina).
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #245 on: January 28, 2019, 03:16:44 PM »

Moderators, can you please move all the speeding posts to somewhere else?

Thanks,
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #246 on: January 28, 2019, 03:21:53 PM »

Fluor Virginia Inc. had a proposal in 2003 to add two lanes in the median of I-81 for $1.8 billion by 2011 for the entire length of the route, under the TEA-21 ISRRPP pilot project, and to pay for it entirely with tolls on cars and trucks.  Too bad that it wasn't supported enough to go forward.  Now they are looking at least $7 billion for a project like that due to the astronomical increases in highway construction costs.
Honestly, I couldn't see it being that cheap back just 15 years ago.  I think that would've been a very lowball estimate that would've caused a lot of negative issues when it couldn't be completed for that amount.

I could.  Remember, that was 16 years ago.  Highway construction costs have skyrocketed since about 2005.

Fluor Virginia may have factored in a substandard median over about 10% of the route.  With that addressed by outside widening, the costs would have risen some and the completion date may have been later than 2011.  But today we would have a 6-lane I-81 from end to end, only small amounts of SYIP funding would be needed for I-81 in the future, and then perhaps highways like I-73 might be under construction by now.

Virginia would have gotten some criticism for doing this, but by now 3 to 5 more states would have followed suit, with more to follow.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 05:18:59 PM by Beltway »
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #247 on: January 28, 2019, 03:26:07 PM »

Quote from: Appalachian Magazine Article
A new poll conducted by Appalachian Magazine between the dates of January 25-28, reveals that the overwhelming majority of respondents are opposed to a bipartisan proposal, which includes support from the state’s Democratic governor, as well as leading Republicans, that will effectively turn Interstate 81 into a toll road.

"Polls" are an inherently bad way of measuring anything, are often wrong, particularly by a magazine that is not a recognized polling organization in the first place.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 03:28:34 PM by Beltway »
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #248 on: January 28, 2019, 03:42:35 PM »

Moderators, can you please move all the speeding posts to somewhere else?

Thanks,
Just because you disagree with something does not mean it should be moved. The topic veered slightly off topic, and is now back on topic. I see no issues.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #249 on: January 28, 2019, 03:48:14 PM »

Moderators, can you please move all the speeding posts to somewhere else?
Thanks,
Just because you disagree with something does not mean it should be moved. The topic veered slightly off topic, and is now back on topic. I see no issues.

The speeding posts have nothing to do with I-81.  They belong in a different thread, probably under Off Topic.

After all, a moderator already -deleted- a whole slew of these type posts yesterday, and then the same type posts started up again!

I can run an Online Flame Thrower with the best of them … but I don't want to do it here.  :pan:  :clap:
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 05:07:56 PM by Beltway »
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