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Author Topic: Virginia plans to toll I-81  (Read 13943 times)

kalvado

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #200 on: January 23, 2019, 01:13:15 PM »

Without resorting to vehicle tracking or other "micromanagement" of driving habits, one of the potential solutions for out-of-state driving would be to simply take a yearly odometer reading

Still a fairly crude measure of mileage to only have one reading per year.  Then the question arises as how to track partial year such as selling one car and buying another.  Also the fact that the 12-month  inspection cycle doesn't go from January to December, it starts the month the car is licensed.

Don't know if this is a widespread standard practice in other localities, but Montgomery County a few years ago implemented a new policy for personal property tax (the "car tax"). It used to be that you received a tax bill in December, based on assessed value, for vehicles owned as of January 1 of that year. Someone figured out that if someone traded or purchased a newer, higher value car after January 1, they got to skate for a year on paying a higher tax. Now, using DMV info, the county will send a bill for pro-rated taxes when there is a change in vehicles.

Since mileage is recorded as part of a title transfer, it wouldn't be that difficult to deal with partial-year mileage -- not that such a plan to collect tax that way makes any sense. There is just too much Big Brother to it, since it wouldn't be much of a stretch to go from tracking mileage to tracking where people actually go. We already see the fiction of crime shows using GPS data and live tracking to find criminals. Joe Everyman might not want someone to be able to see and wonder why he was at the No-Tell Motel or cruising through the 'hood far from his suburban neighborhood.
 
Not to mention, who wants to pay another large, lump sum tax bill?  I rent, so I currently don't have any (NY doesn't have a property tax on cars, and I've gotten an income tax refund every single year since college).  Having to pay a large tax based on how much one drives (rather than a largely invisible gas tax) would seem to be to be a disincentive to driving, which I suspect is the reason why many people support it.
If it comes in monthly bills (although a bit more difficult to manage), then it is not worse that monthly MTA pass in NYC or monthly rent/mortgage.
ALthough yes, another layer of complexity.
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vdeane

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #201 on: January 23, 2019, 01:34:29 PM »

And another bill.  Meanwhile, I'm looking forward to having one LESS bill to pay when my student loans are paid off.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #202 on: January 23, 2019, 06:41:34 PM »

Kentucky charges a specific tax on vehicle purchases. It's 6 percent of 90 percent of the vehicle's value -- either MSRP or purchase price (not sure which) if new, or from a defined, accepted source (Kelley's blue book, I imagine) for used vehicles. That counts for the first year of the property tax. The property tax is assessed on the vehicle's owner on the taxable value of the car as of Jan. 1, and is payable when the owner registers the vehicle in their birth month. The state, counties, school districts, and other taxing bodies all levy property taxes on vehicles.
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VTGoose

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #203 on: January 24, 2019, 09:32:29 AM »

The Virginia General Assembly has done what it does best with bills it doesn't like -- buried them in committees where they may or may not be discussed. If a bill isn't approved in a committee vote, it doesn't make it to the full House or Senate for debate and a vote. From Thursday's Roanoke Times (

Quote
SB 1716, sponsored by Sen. Mark Obenshain, R-Rockingham, was set to be heard before the Transportation Committee on Wednesday but has been rerouted to the Finance Committee.

Obenshain’s bill focuses on tolls to generate the funds to go toward $2 billion in upgrades identified by the Virginia Department of Transportation.

Sen. John Edwards, D-Roanoke, filed SB 1470, which would increase the statewide wholesale gas tax to 5 percent. His bill has been referred to Senate Finance but also has not yet been scheduled to be heard.

Meanwhile, in the House of Delegates, HB 2718, from Del. Steve Landes, R-Augusta, is sitting in the House Rules Committee, whose chairman is House Speaker Kirk Cox, R-Colonial Heights. Cox’s spokesman, Parker Slaybaugh, said it was referred there because it is considered “legislation with major policy implications.”

“It will be referred to committee at the appropriate time,” Slaybaugh said Wednesday.
(https://www.roanoke.com/news/politics/general_assembly/general-assembly-notebook-i--legislation-delayed-tannerite-bill-a/article_2aa55a6a-38ba-5fb5-b552-a989133b6dd9.html)

The deadline for the House and Senate to pass their own bills is Feb. 5. After that date, the bills cross over to the opposite chamber to be voted up or down. Unless quick action is taken, it looks like the toll plan will be dead for another year (likely, given this is an election year).
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #204 on: January 24, 2019, 05:15:19 PM »

Does anyone have high hopes that the bill to toll Interstate 81 will pass? I am leaning on the side of skeptism.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #205 on: January 24, 2019, 05:32:26 PM »

Does anyone have high hopes that the bill to toll Interstate 81 will pass? I am leaning on the side of skeptism.

I'm surprised because when I was at the CTB meeting last week they seemed upbeat and positive about the legislation.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #206 on: January 24, 2019, 05:35:32 PM »

Does anyone have high hopes that the bill to toll Interstate 81 will pass? I am leaning on the side of skeptism.

I'm surprised because when I was at the CTB meeting last week they seemed upbeat and positive about the legislation.
Here's the thing though. Weren't they all upbeat and positive about it when the initial ones for I-95, and I-81 were proposed many years ago?

Until they can get this farther than other proposals went, I'm not going to believe any of this happening. I'm against tolling, but I do support this to an extent if it truly will do a "Phase 1" improvements, which is currently planned, and then later a "Phase 2" build out of the entire corridor to 6 lanes, and 8 through urban areas, with tolls only collected in rural, "remote" locations.
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Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #207 on: January 24, 2019, 05:57:11 PM »

I'm surprised because when I was at the CTB meeting last week they seemed upbeat and positive about the legislation.
Here's the thing though. Weren't they all upbeat and positive about it when the initial ones for I-95, and I-81 were proposed many years ago?

I was doing my job in the VDOT IT Division on the floor above, not at the CTB meetings, so I can't say.  But I don't recall any serious legislative proposal then.

Until they can get this farther than other proposals went, I'm not going to believe any of this happening. I'm against tolling, but I do support this to an extent if it truly will do a "Phase 1" improvements, which is currently planned, and then later a "Phase 2" build out of the entire corridor to 6 lanes, and 8 through urban areas, with tolls only collected in rural, "remote" locations.

None of the 3 ISRRPP pilots from TEA-21 ever went forth beyond FHWA conditional approval.  This will be a first if they actually do the first phase projects and tolling.  So we shall see...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 05:59:35 PM by Beltway »
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goobnav

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #208 on: January 25, 2019, 07:53:17 AM »

The question isn't when I-81 is going to get tolled the "real" question is will VA remove the tolls once the money is paid back.  Based on the social environment in VA today, if the trend continues.  I-81 will be tolled and never removed and would not be surprised if the other Interstates get tolled as well being that the tech is there for high speed tolling and cheap to implement.  Can't wait for the Teamsters, truckers, to get upset and then get told to not bring attention to the future fleecing of the people.  Oh well, my $.02.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #209 on: January 25, 2019, 07:55:34 AM »

Oh well, my $.02.

The tolls won't be that low. Even HOT lanes in the middle of the night are more than that.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #210 on: January 25, 2019, 08:03:12 AM »

The question isn't when I-81 is going to get tolled the "real" question is will VA remove the tolls once the money is paid back.  Based on the social environment in VA today, if the trend continues.  I-81 will be tolled and never removed and would not be surprised if the other Interstates get tolled as well being that the tech is there for high speed tolling and cheap to implement.  Can't wait for the Teamsters, truckers, to get upset and then get told to not bring attention to the future fleecing of the people.  Oh well, my $.02.

Tolls should be removed when traffic stops growing.  The purpose of the toll is to fund expansion and maintenance.  If drivers are willing to live with congestion after the latest round of improvements exceed their lifespan, then remove the tolls.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #211 on: January 25, 2019, 08:59:41 AM »

Oh well, my $.02.

The tolls won't be that low. Even HOT lanes in the middle of the night are more than that.

Even if the toll was that low they still won't get it from me.
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goobnav

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #212 on: January 25, 2019, 09:05:58 AM »

The question isn't when I-81 is going to get tolled the "real" question is will VA remove the tolls once the money is paid back.  Based on the social environment in VA today, if the trend continues.  I-81 will be tolled and never removed and would not be surprised if the other Interstates get tolled as well being that the tech is there for high speed tolling and cheap to implement.  Can't wait for the Teamsters, truckers, to get upset and then get told to not bring attention to the future fleecing of the people.  Oh well, my $.02.

Tolls should be removed when traffic stops growing.  The purpose of the toll is to fund expansion and maintenance.  If drivers are willing to live with congestion after the latest round of improvements exceed their lifespan, then remove the tolls.

Key word is "should" even if congestion is relieved, the law can be changed and tolls can stay. 
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #213 on: January 25, 2019, 09:12:49 AM »

Oh well, my $.02.

The tolls won't be that low. Even HOT lanes in the middle of the night are more than that.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #214 on: January 25, 2019, 09:14:43 AM »

The question isn't when I-81 is going to get tolled the "real" question is will VA remove the tolls once the money is paid back.  Based on the social environment in VA today, if the trend continues.  I-81 will be tolled and never removed and would not be surprised if the other Interstates get tolled as well being that the tech is there for high speed tolling and cheap to implement.  Can't wait for the Teamsters, truckers, to get upset and then get told to not bring attention to the future fleecing of the people.  Oh well, my $.02.
Hopefully North Carolina stays relatively clean of tolls, the exception being the few new toll roads being built. Hopefully the trend of building new interstates and freeways is mostly w/out tolling, and no existing interstate gets tolling. I was glad to hear the state is going the toll-free route on widening I-95 to eight lanes.
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goobnav

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #215 on: January 25, 2019, 09:21:42 AM »

The question isn't when I-81 is going to get tolled the "real" question is will VA remove the tolls once the money is paid back.  Based on the social environment in VA today, if the trend continues.  I-81 will be tolled and never removed and would not be surprised if the other Interstates get tolled as well being that the tech is there for high speed tolling and cheap to implement.  Can't wait for the Teamsters, truckers, to get upset and then get told to not bring attention to the future fleecing of the people.  Oh well, my $.02.
Hopefully North Carolina stays relatively clean of tolls, the exception being the few new toll roads being built. Hopefully the trend of building new interstates and freeways is mostly w/out tolling, and no existing interstate gets tolling. I was glad to hear the state is going the toll-free route on widening I-95 to eight lanes.

Not holding my breath just yet, NC has the highest gax tax in the Southeast and it is capped.  When going to wife's hometown in the Motor City, always wait until we get to Whyteville and I-81/77 reversal route to fill up to get through WV's ridiculous prices.  If these tolls go into place, will resort to US 52 as a backup to avoid I-81.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #216 on: January 25, 2019, 09:41:17 AM »

Not holding my breath just yet, NC has the highest gax tax in the Southeast and it is capped.
At least the results are showing all over the state. New freeways, 4-laning all over the state, these major beltways being built, the massive expansions proposed on I-95, the massive expansions which have already happened on I-85, etc. I can't say much about Virginia other than U.S. 58 HR to I-77, Hampton Roads, Richmond, and North Virginia. I-64 is finally getting widened, but only because of the HRTPO and HRTAC, the rural areas are not. I-95 still sits at 6-lanes south of DC with 200,000+ AADT and all that's proposed are more $20 HO/T lanes. The rest of the state gets ignored.

Speaking of HO/T lanes, the toll here reached $15 on I-64 and people freaked out. There, people freak out when it skirts $40.

When going to wife's hometown in the Motor City, always wait until we get to Whyteville and I-81/77 reversal route to fill up to get through WV's ridiculous prices.  If these tolls go into place, will resort to US 52 as a backup to avoid I-81.
I don't think you'll have to worry about the tolls, it looks like your route would be on I-77 mostly. The overlapped sections of I-81 with I-64 and I-77 will not include tolls. Only the portions solely I-81 and in rural locations.
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goobnav

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #217 on: January 25, 2019, 11:36:43 AM »

Not holding my breath just yet, NC has the highest gax tax in the Southeast and it is capped.
At least the results are showing all over the state. New freeways, 4-laning all over the state, these major beltways being built, the massive expansions proposed on I-95, the massive expansions which have already happened on I-85, etc. I can't say much about Virginia other than U.S. 58 HR to I-77, Hampton Roads, Richmond, and North Virginia. I-64 is finally getting widened, but only because of the HRTPO and HRTAC, the rural areas are not. I-95 still sits at 6-lanes south of DC with 200,000+ AADT and all that's proposed are more $20 HO/T lanes. The rest of the state gets ignored.

Speaking of HO/T lanes, the toll here reached $15 on I-64 and people freaked out. There, people freak out when it skirts $40.

When going to wife's hometown in the Motor City, always wait until we get to Whyteville and I-81/77 reversal route to fill up to get through WV's ridiculous prices.  If these tolls go into place, will resort to US 52 as a backup to avoid I-81.
I don't think you'll have to worry about the tolls, it looks like your route would be on I-77 mostly. The overlapped sections of I-81 with I-64 and I-77 will not include tolls. Only the portions solely I-81 and in rural locations.

Good to know but, have backup routes just in case.  Discovered by accident when the I-77 tunnels closed one year.
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #218 on: January 27, 2019, 11:26:43 PM »

Yes, the real answer is use police & speed enforcement to fund the billions of dollars of I-81 improvements. Not to mention, he mentions widening the interstate won't help any safety issues. Is this guy stupid?

"The State of Virginia could probably fund the entire I-81 project (and increase safety exponentially) by issuing speeding tickets on the highway. I rarely see State Police pulling anyone over or even parking in the median as a deterrent. Making I-81 wider won't solve our highway safety problems because both truck and car drivers will still speed like demons and no one will stop them until speed limit enforcement increases significantly."

https://www.newsleader.com/story/opinion/readers/2019/01/25/speed-real-problem-interstate-81-not-number-lanes-tolls/2656377002/

If they went on a spree to ticket every driver doing anything over 70 MPH (or whatever the speed limit is on a particular stretch), they'd be causing a safety issue themselves. I can only imagine if they set up strict speeding enforcement, the amount of accidents the police officers themselves would cause on I-81.

I could see some enforcement to get people going way faster than the "flow of traffic", whipping in and out of lanes recklessly, etc, but this guy seems to be proposing to ticket anybody speeding.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 12:47:14 AM by sprjus4 »
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MOVED: Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #219 on: January 28, 2019, 12:35:17 AM »

Split off useless naysaying.

Beltway

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #220 on: January 28, 2019, 12:45:09 AM »

Split off useless naysaying.

How about deleting #218 as well?  That is what started it.
Thanks,
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sprjus4

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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #221 on: January 28, 2019, 12:46:25 AM »

Split off useless naysaying.

How about deleting #218 as well?  That is what started it.
Thanks,
How so? My comment was related to I-81, and my response to someone's opinion. I'll remove the Emporia police enforcement part if that would make you happy though, since that's just a fairy tale I came up with, and totally has never been mentioned, or factually proven before.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 12:56:38 AM by sprjus4 »
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #222 on: January 28, 2019, 01:04:06 AM »

Split off useless naysaying.
How about deleting #218 as well?  That is what started it.
Thanks,
How so? My comment was related to I-81, and my response to someone's opinion. I'll remove the Emporia police enforcement part if that would make you happy though, since that's just a fairy tale I came up with, and totally has never been mentioned, or factually proven before.

The thing I found offensive is that notion that police routinely issue speeding tickets for 5 miles over when that is the only issue, and then later posts reduced that claim to one over.

I have over 1,000,000 miles of driving over 50 years to base various observations and opinions upon.  I also do volunteer work for a city PD, which BTW does not carry any arrest powers, but I am concerned when I see claims like that.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 01:06:41 AM by Beltway »
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #223 on: January 28, 2019, 01:12:47 AM »

The main thing I found offensive is that notion that police routinely issue speeding tickets for 5 miles over when that is the only issue, and then later posts reduced that claim to one over.

I have over 1,000,000 miles of driving over 50 years to base various observations and opinions upon.  I also do volunteer work for a city PD, which BTW does not carry any arrest powers, but I am concerned when I see claims like that.
For the most part, police departments and Virginia State Police do not ticket for simply 5 over. The thing is that the city of Emporia's police department, along with the city of Hopewell's police department, are well known to heavily enforce their highways (U.S 58 and I-295 respectively) and ticket, sometimes for as little as 5 over. If there's light traffic, and somebody speeds through at 65 MPH in a 60 MPH, and a police unit is out on radar patrol, they will initiate a traffic stop. I've seen many different stories of this for those two cities. It's factual that they do generate significant revenues for speed trapping on those two highways, Hopewell I mentioned rings in over $2 million each year. Every time you drive through Emporia on U.S. 58 coming from Norfolk, not I-95 from Richmond, there's usually at least 2 units on patrol waiting for somebody to cluelessly come through speeding. There's no safety concern, nobody is act risk, there's no reckless driving, weaving all over the road, etc. But there's still a ticket written, simply so Emporia can make some money. You go anywhere else on U.S. 58, and you rarely see patrols out, and can easily get away with doing 65 - 70 MPH.
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Re: Virginia plans to toll I-81
« Reply #224 on: January 28, 2019, 01:26:24 AM »

Police departments do not routinely ticket for 5 mph over.  The courts would be overloaded and would object big time.  There is plenty of "harvest" at 20+ mph over.  A Ford Police Interceptor has no difficulty getting someone at 100 mph or more.  I rarely see speeding enforcement in US-58 or on I-295.  Speedaholics have been making these claims for decades, and if they were true the state government would have put a stop to it years ago.


« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 01:31:29 AM by Beltway »
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