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Author Topic: I-49 Coming to Missouri  (Read 332194 times)

J N Winkler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2010, 01:36:17 PM »

It works and it is the one FHWA itself uses.  Wikipedia lists "FHA" as a possible acronym for FHWA, but it does clash with the acronym for the Federal Housing Administration.
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2010, 01:52:21 PM »

US-71/MO-249 would most likely require the interchange to go north of Carthage as that area is already congested with business's and houses's. However go north a bit and there is room to build and without taking too many houses and business's.

If memory serves correct, there is already a proposal to extend 249 to the north to give more direct access to Carterville.

I think upgrading old 71 (now MO 171) will be a major hassle.  There are several bridges that would have to be replaced. Plus rebuilding the 71/171/96/571 interchange would probably affect some of the nearby businesses.

It would be cheaper & easier (IMO) to upgrade I-44 and rebuild the 71/44/59 Interchange and run 49 along it permanently rather than change it around later.
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Grzrd

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2010, 09:11:36 PM »

US-71/MO-249 would most likely require the interchange to go north of Carthage as that area is already congested with business's and houses's. However go north a bit and there is room to build and without taking too many houses and business's.
If memory serves correct, there is already a proposal to extend 249 to the north to give more direct access to Carterville.

I think upgrading old 71 (now MO 171) will be a major hassle.  There are several bridges that would have to be replaced. Plus rebuilding the 71/171/96/571 interchange would probably affect some of the nearby businesses.

It would be cheaper & easier (IMO) to upgrade I-44 and rebuild the 71/44/59 Interchange and run 49 along it permanently rather than change it around later.

Apparently, MoDOT has not even started a location study for this anticipated future routing and expects it not to happen until "many years into the future":   http://www.modot.mo.gov/southwest/I-49MapsandInformation.htm

Quote
Will I-49 follow the existing US 71 route? Why isn’t MO 249 being incorporated into the I-49 corridor?
The I-49 corridor will follow the existing alignment of US 71 from I-435 at the Grandview Triangle in Kansas City to I-44 at Fidelity in Jasper County.
The utilization of the current MO 171/MO 249 corridor as an interstate is not possible due to the presence of stopping conditions (traffic signals) at the ramps of the US 71/MO 171/MO 96 interchange near Carthage.
The solution to make the MO 171/MO 249 corridor interstate compatible requires substantial additional funding and a location study consisting of extensive public involvement. Both are likely many years into the future.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 12:33:14 AM by Grzrd »
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Scott5114

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2010, 02:14:04 AM »

Yep ;)
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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2010, 01:36:18 PM »

Who knows.  Maybe somebody should e-mail MoDOT and ask them this question.
Well, I went ahead & e-mailed ...............

MoDOT's reply:

Quote
Thank you for contacting MoDOT.  I have concurred with our project manager Sean Matlock and he supplied the following information.  Mileage will be based on log mile marker zero at the Arkansas state line, utilizing the Bella Vista Bypass alinement and at least at the beginning I-49 will run concurrent with I-44 between exits 11 and 18.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 12:34:26 AM by Grzrd »
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ShawnP

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2011, 03:53:48 PM »

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2011, 10:54:27 PM »

Tried to give MODOT Southwest a freindly push. Seems to me they lost the Pub trail once they put out the upgrade messages. Didn't know much about stuff being put out to bid and then being awarded. I know as a road geek and others look hard for this information. Hopefully they can better with the information. This is a major step for us road geeks to upgrade to Interstate 49 between KC and Joplin. Now for the BVB and Watkins upgrades (I so, so, want that dangerous place upgraded).
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rte66man

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2011, 06:21:53 PM »

What are MoDOT's plans for the US71/Bus71 diamond just west of Carthage?  Reading above, it looks as if the routing along I-44 is temporary.

rte66man
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J N Winkler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2011, 10:13:03 PM »

Tried to give MODOT Southwest a freindly push. Seems to me they lost the Pub trail once they put out the upgrade messages. Didn't know much about stuff being put out to bid and then being awarded. I know as a road geek and others look hard for this information. Hopefully they can better with the information. This is a major step for us road geeks to upgrade to Interstate 49 between KC and Joplin. Now for the BVB and Watkins upgrades (I so, so, want that dangerous place upgraded).

I often think that it would be convenient if it were standard for press releases about new construction always to include the contract number or project code.  But this is hardly ever done.  (This particular project, by the way, was call 702 in the October 22, 2010 letting.)

This is a bit of a nicety though.  This is my own MoDOT wish list:

*  The ability to download construction plans for all MoDOT projects directly at letting, rather than having to go through a zero-cost E-commerce transaction on a third-party website.  (MoDOT requires you to "buy" the plans for free so that your name goes on a planholder's list.  I think that, instead, you should be able to download the plans directly and it should be your responsibility to sign up on a planholder's list.  This is basically how it works in Kansas.  All of MoDOT's neighbor states except Iowa and Kentucky allow anonymous download.)

*  A complete online archive of as-builts for past MoDOT projects.

*  Plan sheet filenames which always have the job number first and which will collate in correct order without needing to be changed to insert zero fills, etc.
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Scott5114

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2011, 12:04:04 PM »

Why does MoDOT need to know who has copies of the plans?
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J N Winkler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2011, 03:55:20 PM »

I don't think they have a real need to know, but that is just my opinion.  To my knowledge, they have never stated a particular rationale for that aspect of their model of E-plans distribution.

In general terms, here are what I think are the possible motivations operating in states which don't allow anonymous download:

Reliable electronic distribution of addenda.  If the user is allowed to come in and download plans anonymously, the state DOT can't be sure that the user will have access to any changes made by addendum after advertisement.  Since any bid which does not expressly acknowledge all addenda is automatically ruled non-responsive, many state DOTs think it increases their chances of getting competitive bids if they make it hard for contractors to ignore addenda.  In the case of MoDOT, for example, whenever I download a project, I get all change notifications for that project by email from the time of download until bid opening.

Document control.  If you know who downloaded the plans, you know who has access (at least at first hand) to them.  States which consider structure plans to be sensitive (which is by no means all of them, but is still a worryingly large minority) tend to attach great importance to this point.

Facilitating coordination and transparency in bid preparation.  Contractors are typically required to state whether they will be bidding as a prime contractor or subcontractor when they order plans and a bidding proposal.  This preference, together with the contractor's business name and contact details, go on a planholders' list, which is usually the first point of reference for a prime contractor looking for subcontractors to handle certain aspects of a turnkey project, or for subcontractors looking to get a piece of the action from a prime contractor.  If a person is forced to be listed on a planholders' list in order to obtain a copy of the construction plans, this introduces a "push" factor into the process and makes certain types of collusive behavior easier to detect.

There are good counterarguments to all of these reasons, which is why a narrow majority of states operate an opt-in system which allows some anonymous online access to the plans but requires you to sign up for the planholders' list if you want to bid (either prime or sub).  Oklahoma DOT puts the plans online, for example, but advises you to order the paper plans so you get on the planholders' list and thus receive all addenda.  If you are interested in Michigan DOT, you can sign up for an Eproposals account which gives you online access to all their proposals and plans on login; you have to click "Add me to the planholders' list" for a given project if you want to be on the list for that project.

In the case of MoDOT, you can obtain a planroom account by declaring yourself either a "Contractor" or a "Vendor."  I declared myself a "Vendor."  When I order plans from MoDOT's planroom (which is actually run not by MoDOT itself but rather by Indoxservices, a blueprint company based in Denver and St. Louis, under contract to MoDOT), I have the option of ordering them on paper, for which there is a sliding charge based on sheet count, or electronically, for which there is no charge but for which I still have to go through a full E-commerce transaction.  Indoxservices at least allows me to opt out of being put on a public planholders' list, which prevents me from having to field calls from suppliers who are, e.g., interested in quoting me prices for pretensioning cable so I can put together a bid for the Noland Road bridge.

The advantage of ordering on paper is that all the sheets are sorted correctly--essentially as they are listed in the sheet list for the project.  If you order electronically, however, you get one file per sheet, and sheets for multiple jobs sort by sheet number rather than job number because the filename always begins with the sheet number rather than the job number.  So you get Sheet 1 Job 1, Sheet 1 Job 2, Sheet 1 Job 3, Sheet 2 Job 1, . . .  Part of the reason for this is that the sheet filename usually matches the MoDOT CAD filename and MoDOT has a tendency to design each job on its own, and then mix and match jobs later to make a contract.  (I have tried to "fix" this by using a file renamer utility to "move" the job number to the front of the filename.  But guess what?  Lots of job numbers in MoDOT sheet filenames have typos in them.)

When you finish your order, you have to wait for a ZIP file to be assembled with all the sheets you ordered.  The ZIP file is always made to order, since Indoxservices doesn't have prefabricated ZIP files lying around for people like me who always want the full Monty, and if you try to download the ZIP too early, you get all sorts of error messages.  When I work with Indoxservices, I try to do it outside regular business hours to avoid competition for disk and CPU time on their server.

When the ZIP comes from Indoxservices, the sheet files are all encrypted PDF with a constant-length garbage string just before the .pdf extension.  This means plans have to be read a sheet at a time with no ability to premerge on the fly for easy viewing.  MoDOT plots with layers and does E-signatures now, so when you load a sheet file in Acrobat, you get all kinds of dialog boxes dealing with E-signature validity.  It is such a hassle to deal with these that I just take a quick look at the sign panel detail sheets (which nearly always have the designation "Form D31" and quite often the strings "SN" [for signing] and "D31" in the filename), and then file and forget the project.  I have 138 MoDOT projects (about 9.5 GB worth) I have filed and forgotten in this way since the letting of August 21, 2009.  Maybe I will go through them all in five years when the tarball reaches 500 projects/50 GB in size.
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2011, 09:46:21 AM »

What are MoDOT's plans for the US71/Bus71 diamond just west of Carthage?  Reading above, it looks as if the routing along I-44 is temporary.

rte66man

I've not seen anything. Maybe it will be part of the proposed 249 extension (Carterville thinks 249 will be extended to give them more direct access)?
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Grzrd

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MoDOT Money Crunch and I-49
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2011, 09:20:56 AM »

What are MoDOT's plans for the US71/Bus71 diamond just west of Carthage?  Reading above, it looks as if the routing along I-44 is temporary.
rte66man
I've not seen anything. Maybe it will be part of the proposed 249 extension (Carterville thinks 249 will be extended to give them more direct access)?

MoDOT is facing a money crunch and may close its Joplin office. I-49 projects in pipeline, including MoBVB, should not be affected, but Highway 71/ Highway 171 interchange rebuild is now on long-term hold:

http://www.carthagepress.com/news/county/x741442777/Highway-commission-considers-closing-office

Quote
A long-predicted transportation funding cliff has arrived and the Missouri State Higways and Transportation Commission has to decide how to maintain more than 30,000 miles of roads with a budget that is less than half what it was a few years ago ... Joplin Chamber of Commerce President Rob O’Brian spent part of Tuesday in a meeting with David Nichols, chief engineer for MoDOT; Rudy Farber, Neosho, the vice chairman of the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission and Becky Baltz, the district engineer for the MoDOT District 7 office in Joplin to discuss those plans ... One of the consequences of the plans under discussion could be consolidating the MoDOT district in Joplin with the district in Springfield and either closing the Joplin office or drastically reducing the staff in Joplin ...
O’Brian said he was assured that projects in the pipeline now, including improving U.S. Highway 71 to interstate status from Kansas City to Carthage and redesignating it Interstate 49 and working with Arkansas to build a Bella Vista Bypass, will remain on track.
Future projects, such as rebuilding the Highway 171 and Highway 71 interchange to take I-49 to the Range Line Bypass and building a west corridor around Joplin, will remain on hold until MoDOT can find new revenue to build them.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 12:38:17 AM by Grzrd »
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2011, 04:02:41 PM »

This just posted by MoDOT Southwest:
Vernon County residents: The work to upgrade Route 71 to interstate standards continues 6/1 when crews from Kolb Grading close the crossing and intersection at Rte E/71 near Milo, south of Nevada. The contractor will begin building the interchange, bridge and outer road connections. Motorists should take alternate routes during this time. The work will be finished by 12/2011.

I wonder if this means the end of the invisible Spur 71 at Milo?
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J N Winkler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2011, 03:39:36 PM »

MoDOT has just advertised another I-49 contract--Call C01 in the letting of August 26, 2011.  ("C" in "C01" means "Central District," but actually the project was developed by District 4--MoDOT's old Kansas City district--and thus has a collection of J4PXXXX job numbers.)  This is probably the first where the signing plans actually call for installation of I-49 shields.

The work calls for provision of a diamond interchange at 307th Street south of Harrisonville, with overbridge and ramps lying entirely within the area defined by the existing outer roads:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harrisonville,+MO&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Harrisonville,+Cass,+Missouri&ll=38.559173,-94.35035&spn=0.00891,0.01929&z=16
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ShawnP

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2011, 04:05:18 PM »

Very easily built Interchange as you noted all the right of way is already purchased. Could easily be done in 9-12 months.
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2011, 07:00:45 PM »

MoDOT is currently working on upgrading Route M at Compton Junction as well as building a bridge (only) just north of the Marmaton River. There is also work on a new interchange at Routes AA /E north of Adrian.
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J N Winkler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2011, 06:40:21 PM »

Latest piece of I-49 news:  MoDOT has advertised a contract (call number G01 in the letting of October 21, 2011) to upgrade signs in the I-49 corridor.  The purpose of this contract is to sign I-49 explicitly on the US 71 corridor between I-44 at Joplin and I-435 at Kansas City.

The plans set has 494 sheets (which is an unusually high sheet count for a signing contract), of which 100 are sign panel detail sheets.  I haven't gone through the plans set thoroughly yet, but a cursory inspection reveals the following:

*  I-49 signing does not seem to extend south of I-44.

*  I-49's northern end is explicitly signed:  "I-49 ends--Continue on US 71 north."

*  I-49 will have a number of business loops with Business 49 shields on advance guide and exit direction signs.

http://modot.indoxservices.com/

The "public planroom" will not require a vendor ID.
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2011, 07:03:34 PM »

Latest piece of I-49 news:  MoDOT has advertised a contract (call number G01 in the letting of October 21, 2011) to upgrade signs in the I-49 corridor.  The purpose of this contract is to sign I-49 explicitly on the US 71 corridor between I-44 at Joplin and I-435 at Kansas City.

The plans set has 494 sheets (which is an unusually high sheet count for a signing contract), of which 100 are sign panel detail sheets.  I haven't gone through the plans set thoroughly yet, but a cursory inspection reveals the following:

*  I-49 signing does not seem to extend south of I-44.

*  I-49's northern end is explicitly signed:  "I-49 ends--Continue on US 71 north."

*  I-49 will have a number of business loops with Business 49 shields on advance guide and exit direction signs.

http://modot.indoxservices.com/

The "public planroom" will not require a vendor ID.

I wasn't able to find them. I found the Public Planroom, but none of the 4 links could I find anything on I-49
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J N Winkler

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2011, 08:23:00 PM »

Bread crumb trail:  Top page --> "Public planrooms" --> "Projects let by MoDOT" --> First of six pages of listings.  Call G01 (contract 111021-G01) will be on the second page of listings.

This direct link may work if you have gone through the login wall at least once:

http://dfs.indoxservices.com/MoDOTTheme/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=8CF454E5-19CD-4335-B5FD-574513034A71

You can choose between thumbnail and list view.  I think the latter has been set as the default, but thumbnails might be useful for identifying sheets of interest.
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2011, 11:27:20 PM »

Bread crumb trail:  Top page --> "Public planrooms" --> "Projects let by MoDOT" --> First of six pages of listings.  Call G01 (contract 111021-G01) will be on the second page of listings.

This direct link may work if you have gone through the login wall at least once:

http://dfs.indoxservices.com/MoDOTTheme/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=8CF454E5-19CD-4335-B5FD-574513034A71

You can choose between thumbnail and list view.  I think the latter has been set as the default, but thumbnails might be useful for identifying sheets of interest.

OK, finally found it. Lots of different screens to go through. I see the 71 signs are outlined in dashes, where the 49 signs are not. Will 71 "disappear" like it has along I-540 in Arkanaas?
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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2011, 12:57:53 AM »

No, it looks like MoDOT is keeping US 71 but pruning instances of Business US 71.  In signing plans the convention is to use dashed lines to indicate existing signs and other roadway elements.  This plans set is full of dashed lines because there are relatively few full sign panel replacements on the I-49 mainline:  at most exits, the exit tabs and gore signs are being changed, invariably to reflect new milepointing for I-49.  The mainline sign panel replacements are concentrated in Joplin and Kansas City and have to do with I-49's "ride-along" on I-44 and its termination in the Grandview Triangle mess.  With regard to trailblazer assemblies, all of the US 71 stuff appears in dashed lines but the sign summaries almost invariably say "Reuse signs" or "Reuse 71 signs."  Many of the crossroad signs are being replaced because the existing panels are too small to accommodate both I-49 and US 71 shields.  Business US 71 overlays are being removed to accommodate new 36" Business 49 shields, which suggests that in most if not all cases Business 49 will overlap existing Business US 71 designations and is my reason for suspecting that those designations will be removed.

I was wrong, BTW--this signing contract covers I-49 all the way from Exit 5 (Route H Pineville/Noel exit, just north of the Arkansas state line and projected northern end of the Bella Vista Bypass) to Exit 182 (Grandview Triangle).  There will be a "49 ends, continue on 71" sign at the Pineville end as well.  Going north, exit numbers on I-49 will drop from 39 to the mid-teens (approximately mileposts 11 to 18) since I-44 milepointing will govern on the shared I-44/I-49 stretch, but there will be no duplication of exit numbers on I-49, the closest approach to collision being I-49 Exit 17 (about 22 miles south of the I-44 concurrency) and I-44 Exit 18.

Bottom line:  once I-49 is signed it will still be easy to follow US 71 across Missouri.  From the standpoint of message loading it would be helpful not to have US 71 shields on every single crossroads sign and pull-through from Arkansas to Kansas City.  I wouldn't argue in favor of eliminating signing for US 71, however, because it is the continuation of I-49 on both ends and relates well to the navigational resources that are already available.  In the future, when the I-49 designation is bedded in, US 71 could very well be de-emphasized the way US 40 has been with regard to I-70 in Kansas.
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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2011, 07:01:21 PM »

It never used to be the MoDOT way to hide US routes on interstates other than the occasional error.

(Edited for clarity)
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 09:18:11 PM by Revive 755 »
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US71

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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2011, 09:04:21 PM »

It never used to be the MoDOT to hide US routes on interstates other than the occasional error.  

Mostly true, though I've noticed missing signage along I-70 near the MO/KS Border.
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Re: I-49 Coming to Missouri
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2011, 12:06:42 AM »

Nevertheless, I still feel that once this project is finished, MDOT and FHWA should attempt one last try to convince the KC neighborhoods in the Bruce Watkins Drive communities to negotiate ending the consent decree and allow completion of the missing segments of the US 71 freeway, even through possible cut-and-cover tunnel segments that could preserve the park median segments.  If the Allendale community in Shereveport can  be turned around on the issue of the I-49 Inner City Connecter going through Shereveport (and they would have been far more dramatically affected), then why not BWD?? It makes no sense to build such a elongated major route and merely truncate it at the outskirts of a metro area.

As an alternative, simply re-route I-49 along I-470 east around the KC area to end either at I-70 or I-35 northeast of the city, and make the remainding segment of US 71 a BR I-49.


Anthony
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