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[Beltway]

US 13 through Maryland is fully limited-access (with at-grade intersections) and could easily be upgraded as well.

The Salisbury Bypass is limited access, but I am not sure what other parts are, maybe none.  I just took a "ride" on GMSV, and there are driveways and minor intersections all along the rest of the route, and plenty of major intersections, and no interchanges.

[jeffandnicole]

Nice. Now they need to convert the rest of the highway from Little Heaven to Dover into limited-access freeway to create one continuous system.

That wouldn't be too difficult, there's all of one driveway, a couple of farm access points, and a sub-standard exit to contend with along that portion. I don't see anything like that happening anytime soon though. DelDOT seems more interested in simply getting the traffic moving through the choke points along DE 1 rather than a complete limited access rebuild, which I'll happily settle for as the former still gets rid of most of the headaches.

The issue is how many tens of millions will they need to spend to build roads to remove a few driveways from the highway?

[sprjus4]

US 13 through Maryland is fully limited-access (with at-grade intersections) and could easily be upgraded as well.

The Salisbury Bypass is limited access, but I am not sure what other parts are, maybe none.  I just took a "ride" on GMSV, and there are driveways and minor intersections all along the rest of the route, and plenty of major intersections, and no interchanges.

US-13 between Pocomoke City and Salisbury has no private driveway access directly to US-13. There are numerous frontage roads which serve these properties, though again, not connecting directly to the main highway. Only public road access is permitted. (I.E. limited-access, at-grade) There's a few exceptions, but besides those, the rest follows that standard.

US-13 between Pocomoke City and Virginia however (4 miles) is non-limited-access with numerous connections, etc. The same applies to all of US-13 in Virginia.

Now, yes, the Salisbury Bypass is a limited-access freeway, but the rest is limited-access, at-grade.

A limited-access, at-grade roadway can have public roadway intersections, but prohibits private access.

[ipeters61]

US 13 through Maryland is fully limited-access (with at-grade intersections) and could easily be upgraded as well.

The Salisbury Bypass is limited access, but I am not sure what other parts are, maybe none.  I just took a "ride" on GMSV, and there are driveways and minor intersections all along the rest of the route, and plenty of major intersections, and no interchanges.

US-13 between Pocomoke City and Salisbury has no private driveway access directly to US-13. There are numerous frontage roads which serve these properties, though again, not connecting directly to the main highway. Only public road access is permitted. (I.E. limited-access, at-grade) There's a few exceptions, but besides those, the rest follows that standard.

US-13 between Pocomoke City and Virginia however (4 miles) is non-limited-access with numerous connections, etc. The same applies to all of US-13 in Virginia.

Now, yes, the Salisbury Bypass is a limited-access freeway, but the rest is limited-access, at-grade.

A limited-access, at-grade roadway can have public roadway intersections, but prohibits private access.

I went to Salisbury this morning, US-13 between Salisbury and Delmar is not limited access: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4180595,-75.565429,3a,75y,3.59h,85.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0WH5SdUiHl8PbiF8gjzgA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Alex4897]

Nice. Now they need to convert the rest of the highway from Little Heaven to Dover into limited-access freeway to create one continuous system.

That wouldn't be too difficult, there's all of one driveway, a couple of farm access points, and a sub-standard exit to contend with along that portion. I don't see anything like that happening anytime soon though. DelDOT seems more interested in simply getting the traffic moving through the choke points along DE 1 rather than a complete limited access rebuild, which I'll happily settle for as the former still gets rid of most of the headaches.

The issue is how many tens of millions will they need to spend to build roads to remove a few driveways from the highway?

Exactly, while perhaps the Dover - Little Heaven segment would be the easiest to contend with in that regard it'd take a massive expensive effort south of Little Heaven to provide new access to those homes and businesses, especially between the South Frederica interchange and Milford. I don't see them undertaking a massive effort to rework access like that until the volumes reach a certain threshold or safety becomes a bigger concern along the corridor. In the meantime they manage access control for new developments much more carefully under the Corridor Capacity Preservation Program, a good example of that being the pseudo-shopping center containing the Royal Farms and the Grotto's Pizza near the site of the future DE 14 interchange.

[Beltway]

Now, yes, the Salisbury Bypass is a limited-access freeway, but the rest is limited-access, at-grade.

I went to Salisbury this morning, US-13 between Salisbury and Delmar is not limited access: 

US-13 between Pocomoke City and the state line is nonlimited-access with numerous driveways and field entrances.   That and the segment between Salisbury and Delaware are nonlimited-access and the latter is rather congested.

Whether or not the other at-grade sections are limited access, I would have to go look at the highway and see and make a determination.
 

[NJRoadfan]

US-113 is setup as the limited access bypass of US-13 in MD. Delaware is trying to upgrade their segment (the proposed Millsboro and Milford bypasses) with limited success. Literature from the CBBT recommends US-113 as it has less traffic lights.

[sprjus4]

I went to Salisbury this morning, US-13 between Salisbury and Delmar is not limited access: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4180595,-75.565429,3a,75y,3.59h,85.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH0WH5SdUiHl8PbiF8gjzgA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

US-13 between Pocomoke City and the state line is nonlimited-access with numerous driveways and field entrances.

I clearly stated between Pocomoke City and Salisbury, I didn't say anywhere else.

4 miles of US-13 from Delmar to US-50 / US-13 bypass is non-limited-access roadway
12 miles of US-13 on the Salisbury Bypass is limited-access freeway
23 miles of US-13 from the southern terminus of the Salisbury Bypass to Pocomoke City is limited-access (with a couple exceptions), at-grade
4 miles of US-13 from Pocomoke City to Virginia is non-limited-access roadway

So 8 miles is non-limited-access, and 35 miles is limited-access with a couple exceptions. Majority is limited-access, point in case.

If a DE-1 superhighway concept were extended as a toll road to Salisbury from Milford on new location, it would likely be built on new location in Maryland as well, seamlessly tying into the Salisbury Bypass. Upgrading the rest south of there is mainly on limited-access roadway, and the connection to Virginia is debatable on what even happens in Virginia. If it's a new location in Virginia, then it would likely be new location for those 4 miles in Maryland as well.

Whether or not the other at-grade sections are limited access, I would have to go look at the highway and see and make a determination.

Hard to say if it's officially declared "limited-access" right of way, though almost all of the driveway connections are handled by frontage roads which connect to the highway. There's very few direct connections however. That would make it a lot easier if upgraded to freeway standards then having numerous connecting driveway directly to US-13. The frontage roads are already there for you.

US-113 is setup as the limited access bypass of US-13 in MD. Delaware is trying to upgrade their segment (the proposed Millsboro and Milford bypasses) with limited success. Literature from the CBBT recommends US-113 as it has less traffic lights.

Certainly not limited-access as there are numerous driveway connections, however it's a nicer alternative with few lights, and more scenic IMHO (forested areas, divided highway, etc) I do agree. Most of it is four-lane, and the rest is either under construction to 4-lanes or programmed in the near future for 4-lanes I believe.

[Beltway]

If a DE-1 superhighway concept were extended as a toll road to Salisbury from Milford on new location, it would likely be built on new location in Maryland as well, seamlessly tying into the Salisbury Bypass. Upgrading the rest south of there is mainly on limited-access roadway, and the connection to Virginia is debatable on what even happens in Virginia. If it's a new location in Virginia, then it would likely be new location for those 4 miles in Maryland as well.

Regardless of how well built US-13 is in Maryland, Delaware has always been the obstacle.  Little if any of US-13 south of Dover would be useable for a freeway upgrade, probably all of it would need to be bypassed by a new location highway.  Much the same for US-113 south of Milford.

Delaware's priorities for corridor preservation have been 1) DE-1 south of DAFB to beaches, 2) US-113 south of Milford, and 3) US-13 south of Dover.  US-13 is at the bottom of the barrel.  Also no cross-connection between US-113 and US-13.

Delaware hasn't yet coalesced on over whether to utilize US-13 or US-113 as its future main north-south corridor, and that obviously influences what Maryland can do to coordinate with what Delaware decides sometime in the future.
 

[sprjus4]

If a DE-1 superhighway concept were extended as a toll road to Salisbury from Milford on new location, it would likely be built on new location in Maryland as well, seamlessly tying into the Salisbury Bypass. Upgrading the rest south of there is mainly on limited-access roadway, and the connection to Virginia is debatable on what even happens in Virginia. If it's a new location in Virginia, then it would likely be new location for those 4 miles in Maryland as well.

Regardless of how well built US-13 is in Maryland, Delaware has always been the obstacle.  Little if any of US-13 south of Dover would be useable for a freeway upgrade, probably all of it would need to be bypassed by a new location highway.  Much the same for US-113 south of Milford.

Delaware's priorities for corridor preservation have been 1) DE-1 south of DAFB to beaches, 2) US-113 south of Milford, and 3) US-13 south of Dover.  US-13 is at the bottom of the barrel.  Also no cross-connection between US-113 and US-13.

Delaware hasn't yet coalesced on over whether to utilize US-13 or US-113 as its future main north-south corridor, and that obviously influences what Maryland can do to coordinate with what Delaware decides sometime in the future.

Obviously all of this talk for a full freeway build out is fictional, since the I-99 proposal a decade ago, it's not been discussed heavily. Delaware mentioned in the I-99 "study" they have considered constructing a parallel freeway to US 113 like they've done with US 13 in the 80s and 90s with the DE 1 superhighway. Since Delaware is interested more with US 113, and Maryland is more interested in US 13, IMHO the best option would be to build a seamless connection between the two. Basically, upgrade 6 miles of DE-1 south of Dover to freeway standards (no tolling), then at Milford, construct 42 miles of limited-access toll freeway from Milford to Salisbury, seamlessly tying into the Salisbury Bypass about half way between the US 50 eastern exit, and the US 13 northern exit, and upgrade the rest of existing US 13 down to Pocomoke City. If Virginia were to do a similar concept stretching down to the CBBT, it would likely involve an additional 66 miles of toll freeway paralleling existing US 13, tying into the existing limited-access US 13 north of the CBBT, then upgrading it to the CBBT. On the southside, Northampton Blvd is limited-access to Diamond Springs Road, and from there to I-64, that's where it gets messy.

This would involve upgrading about 35 miles of limited-access roadway, at-grade in a full freeway, about 108 miles of new location toll-freeway total, plus about 5 miles of non-limited-access upgrades in Norfolk / VA Beach (if this is even done). If you tolled at 15 cents per mile, that would be $16.20 one-way, plus $2 one-way for the 45 miles of DE-1 freeway, plus $14 one-way on the CBBT, that's $32.20 one-way for over 210 miles of freeway, bypassing the I-95 / Washington / Balitmore corridor completely.

Driving the corridor at an average of 65 MPH (the CCBT is 55 MPH, rural freeway segments in VA likely 70 MPH, freeway in Maryland & Delaware at 65 MPH), that would save about 40 minutes of the existing drive on US 13. If the state's chose to try reviving the tollway concept through VA, Maryland, and Delaware (from the failed attempts before), it could turn out to be a great investment.

Using high-balled estimates, for 108 miles of freeway at $50 million per mile, that's $5.4 billion, and for 35 miles of upgrades at $30 million per mile, $1 billion. So about $6.4 billion to create over 210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, which would be backed with tolling.

[Beltway]

[ … snip … ]

So about $6.4 billion to create over 210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, which would be backed with tolling.

Belongs over in Fictional Highways.

[Tonytone]

[ … snip … ]

So about $6.4 billion to create over 210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, which would be backed with tolling.

Belongs over in Fictional Highways.

I wouldn’t count it out so quickly Beltway, the 301 was intalks since the 70’s & it was finally built. This might come in the next 5-10 years, especially the way they are moving with pushing De-1 South & other statements above ^.


iPhone

[Beltway]

So about $6.4 billion to create over 210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, which would be backed with tolling.

Belongs over in Fictional Highways.

I wouldn’t count it out so quickly Beltway, the 301 was intalks since the 70’s & it was finally built. This might come in the next 5-10 years, especially the way they are moving with pushing De-1 South & other statements above ^.

DE US-301 is 12 miles of highway and it addressed a missing link dating at least to 1972 when all of MD US-301 was 4 lanes but Delaware did not have a 4-lane highway between there and US-13.

It was programmed in the STIP.  Anything that makes it to a STIP is not fictional.  The DE-1 improvements are also programmed in a STIP and they are heading down to the beaches, far from the US-13 corridor.

210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, is beyond fictional, and I see that there was no mention of the major environmental obstacles that would be encountered.

[Tonytone]

So about $6.4 billion to create over 210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, which would be backed with tolling.

Belongs over in Fictional Highways.

I wouldn’t count it out so quickly Beltway, the 301 was intalks since the 70’s & it was finally built. This might come in the next 5-10 years, especially the way they are moving with pushing De-1 South & other statements above ^.

DE US-301 is 12 miles of highway and it addressed a missing link dating at least to 1972 when all of MD US-301 was 4 lanes but Delaware did not have a 4-lane highway between there and US-13.

It was programmed in the STIP.  Anything that makes it to a STIP is not fictional.  The DE-1 improvements are also programmed in a STIP and they are heading down to the beaches, far from the US-13 corridor.

Yes, and if you look on the projects website, (Atleast the old one) they have U.S. 13 in the works as well, just nothing yet. I would assume this is because of all the missing links in the populated areas, they would finish those first before trying to start a new Highway or bypass correct?


iPhone

[Beltway]

The DE-1 improvements are also programmed in a STIP and they are heading down to the beaches, far from the US-13 corridor.

Yes, and if you look on the projects website, (Atleast the old one) they have U.S. 13 in the works as well, just nothing yet. I would assume this is because of all the missing links in the populated areas, they would finish those first before trying to start a new Highway or bypass correct?

It is in Corridor Preservation and as I said the third priority after DE-1 and US-113.  Corridor Preservation as DelDOT defines it could range from access management studies to improve at-grade access and driveway consolidation, up to something much higher such as the interchanges they are building on DE-1.

DelDOT also is studying at least one east-west route, that being Route 404, since Maryland has now 4-laned most of theirs, and Delaware may want to follow suit to help the east-west beach traffic.

So DelDOT already has a full plate in its STIP.

[Tonytone]

The DE-1 improvements are also programmed in a STIP and they are heading down to the beaches, far from the US-13 corridor.

Yes, and if you look on the projects website, (Atleast the old one) they have U.S. 13 in the works as well, just nothing yet. I would assume this is because of all the missing links in the populated areas, they would finish those first before trying to start a new Highway or bypass correct?

It is in Corridor Preservation and as I said the third priority after DE-1 and US-113.  Corridor Preservation as DelDOT defines it could range from access management studies to improve at-grade access and driveway consolidation, up to something much higher such as the interchanges they are building on DE-1.

DelDOT also is studying at least one east-west route, that being Route 404, since Maryland has now 4-laned most of theirs, and Delaware may want to follow suit to help the east-west beach traffic.

So DelDOT already has a full plate in its STIP.

It was in projects. It could be in in there, Ill look around.

Why is it taking so long for them to get stuff done? Does Deldot have a shortage of workers? Do they need to expand in order to get this sh*t done?


iPhone

[Beltway]

So DelDOT already has a full plate in its STIP.

It was in projects. It could be in in there, Ill look around.
Why is it taking so long for them to get stuff done? Does Deldot have a shortage of workers? Do they need to expand in order to get this sh*t done?

Highway construction has always been expensive, but especially so in the last 10 to 15 years. 

$400 million to build the US-301 tollroad.

[Tonytone]

So DelDOT already has a full plate in its STIP.

It was in projects. It could be in in there, Ill look around.
Why is it taking so long for them to get stuff done? Does Deldot have a shortage of workers? Do they need to expand in order to get this sh*t done?

Highway construction has always been expensive, but especially so in the last 10 to 15 years. 

$400 million to build the US-301 tollroad.

I know, those prices are crazy. But it seems like back in the day, they built these roads so fast & now it takes 15 years just to get everyone to agree. Can the people just let certain areas be built to handle the traffic it needs to handle & they  can go live in the areas where the highway & big roads that scare them aren’t.


The same people that complain about roads in Delaware are the same people who want them improved, either get a horse or drive a car, the choice is yours.


iPhone

[Beltway]

$400 million to build the US-301 tollroad.

I know, those prices are crazy. But it seems like back in the day, they built these roads so fast & now it takes 15 years just to get everyone to agree. Can the people just let certain areas be built to handle the traffic it needs to handle & they  can go live in the areas where the highway & big roads that scare them aren’t.
The same people that complain about roads in Delaware are the same people who want them improved, either get a horse or drive a car, the choice is yours.

The DE-1 "Relief Route" took 15 years to build.  Engineering started in 1983, construction in 1988, all completed by 2003.  51 miles of highway at $900 million.

[Tonytone]

$400 million to build the US-301 tollroad.

I know, those prices are crazy. But it seems like back in the day, they built these roads so fast & now it takes 15 years just to get everyone to agree. Can the people just let certain areas be built to handle the traffic it needs to handle & they  can go live in the areas where the highway & big roads that scare them aren’t.
The same people that complain about roads in Delaware are the same people who want them improved, either get a horse or drive a car, the choice is yours.

The DE-1 "Relief Route" took 15 years to build.  Engineering started in 1983, construction in 1988, all completed by 2003.  51 miles of highway at $900 million.

Which section? Because I know it was built in different times. You are talking about the portion from Christiana mall to Middletown?

900 Million sheesh. How much money would they have saved/made if they would have built the whole highway from top to bottom with tolls ?


iPhone

[sprjus4]

210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, is beyond fictional, and I see that there was no mention of the major environmental obstacles that would be encountered.

The only real "issues" would be in Virginia, it's a narrow peninsula with not all the room in the world to build. It's likely possible though if an effort was put into doing it. New alignments could hug the old road in many areas, and be an upgrade of the existing road in others. Not the easiest build, but certainly possible. Delaware is studying a limited-access corridor, and Maryland's is already mostly limited-access, at-grade.

It is in Corridor Preservation and as I said the third priority after DE-1 and US-113.  Corridor Preservation as DelDOT defines it could range from access management studies to improve at-grade access and driveway consolidation, up to something much higher such as the interchanges they are building on DE-1.

DelDOT also is studying at least one east-west route, that being Route 404, since Maryland has now 4-laned most of theirs, and Delaware may want to follow suit to help the east-west beach traffic.

So DelDOT already has a full plate in its STIP.

https://www.deldot.gov/projects/index.shtml?dc=details&projectNumber=T200212701#project-details1

US 113, North / South Improvements

"This project will continue to work on viable alternatives for a limited access highway throughout Sussex County to address existing and future transportation needs along US 113 while preserving environmental and historic resources and accommodating planned economic growth. The expectation is that Ellendale Area will be an Environmental Assessment (EA) project, the Georgetown Area will be an EA project, and the Millsboro through Selbyville Area will be an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) project. Milford will be an EIS Project as well."

It's on the long range plans, it's not "fictional" anyways throughout Delaware. Sussex County stretches from DE-1 down to Maryland, and includes both the US-13 and US-113 corridor.

Which section? Because I know it was built in different times. You are talking about the portion from Christiana mall to Middletown?

https://goo.gl/ABjZEk

Interactive maps with different opening dates. Click on each segment to see the date.

900 Million sheesh. How much money would they have saved/made if they would have built the whole highway from top to bottom with tolls ?

The southern part is tolled, it costs $2 on weekdays and $6 on weekends to drive the entire corridor. The northern part is a heavy local route as well, therefore there's not tolls around those locations.

It would not have saved any money, it still would have cost the same either way.

[Tonytone]

210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, is beyond fictional, and I see that there was no mention of the major environmental obstacles that would be encountered.

The only real "issues" would be in Virginia, it's a narrow peninsula with not all the room in the world to build. It's likely possible though if an effort was put into doing it. New alignments could hug the old road in many ways, and be an exact upgrade of the existing road in others. Not the easiest build, but certainly possible. Delaware is studying a limited-access corridor, and Maryland's is already mostly limited-access, at-grade.

It is in Corridor Preservation and as I said the third priority after DE-1 and US-113.  Corridor Preservation as DelDOT defines it could range from access management studies to improve at-grade access and driveway consolidation, up to something much higher such as the interchanges they are building on DE-1.

DelDOT also is studying at least one east-west route, that being Route 404, since Maryland has now 4-laned most of theirs, and Delaware may want to follow suit to help the east-west beach traffic.

So DelDOT already has a full plate in its STIP.

https://www.deldot.gov/projects/index.shtml?dc=details&projectNumber=T200212701#project-details1

US 113, North / South Improvements

"This project will continue to work on viable alternatives for a limited access highway throughout Sussex County to address existing and future transportation needs along US 113 while preserving environmental and historic resources and accommodating planned economic growth. The expectation is that Ellendale Area will be an Environmental Assessment (EA) project, the Georgetown Area will be an EA project, and the Millsboro through Selbyville Area will be an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) project. Milford will be an EIS Project as well."

It's on the long range plans, it's not "fictional" anyways throughout Delaware. Sussex County stretches from DE-1 down to Maryland, and includes both the US-13 and US-113 corridor.

Which section? Because I know it was built in different times. You are talking about the portion from Christiana mall to Middletown?

https://goo.gl/ABjZEk

Interactive maps with different opening dates. Click on each segment to see the date.

900 Million sheesh. How much money would they have saved/made if they would have built the whole highway from top to bottom with tolls ?

The southern part is tolled, it costs $2 on weekdays and $6 on weekends to drive the entire corridor. The northern part is a heavy local route as well, therefore there's not tolls around those locations.

It would not have saved any money, it still would have cost the same either way.

I know which sections are tolled, Im saying if the highway were built past where it ends at its new location, to wherever an ending point would be at the bottom of De. Delaware could have made more money because people would take De-1 instead of Us-13 or Us-113.


iPhone

[Beltway]

210 miles of freeway from Norfolk to I-95 in Wilmington, DE, is beyond fictional, and I see that there was no mention of the major environmental obstacles that would be encountered.

US 113, North / South Improvements
[…]
It's on the long range plans, it's not "fictional" anyways throughout Delaware.

It's fictional.  Take it to Fictional Highways.

[sprjus4]

It's fictional.  Take it to Fictional Highways.

Not fictional through Delaware. I'll stop discussing Virginia and Maryland if it will make you happy (oh who am I kidding anything I discuss won't make you happy) but I've already proven it's on the long-range plans & has been discussed in Delaware.

[Alex4897]

US 113, North / South Improvements

"This project will continue to work on viable alternatives for a limited access highway throughout Sussex County to address existing and future transportation needs along US 113 while preserving environmental and historic resources and accommodating planned economic growth. The expectation is that Ellendale Area will be an Environmental Assessment (EA) project, the Georgetown Area will be an EA project, and the Millsboro through Selbyville Area will be an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) project. Milford will be an EIS Project as well."

It's on the long range plans, it's not "fictional" anyways throughout Delaware. Sussex County stretches from DE-1 down to Maryland, and includes both the US-13 and US-113 corridor.

The US 113 project as you understand it is dead in the water for the time being and is not on long range plans. The information you see on DelDOT's website is extremely out-of-date, and their new project page format eliminated all of the following, more recent information: Milford and Lincoln killed their section off years ago and Millsboro killed off their bypass 4-ish years ago. All that remains are sporadic interchange construction projects in problem areas, a widening project in Millsboro, and a neutered northern bypass of Millsboro for DE Route 24. There are no cohesive long range plans for a freeway facility along the entirety of US 113, let alone even part of it. If something like this were to be resurrected it would take literal decades before construction began unless an inordinate amount of cash from an outside source was siphoned into it.

EDIT: I take back what I said about long range plans, DelDOT still has a line for it in their budget for FY20 - FY25, though they only plan on spending on ROW for the next five years. I have no idea what their plan for this is. They've been splitting out individual projects from the North / South Study in the wake of the freeway proposals getting knocked down, so I don't know if they've gone back to the drawing board to try and work on a corridor-wide on-alignment reconstruction or what. They have construction pegged at $180,000,000 for this "project", so something to watch for I guess...?