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Author Topic: Delaware  (Read 314587 times)

jeffandnicole

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1250 on: March 10, 2019, 11:05:32 PM »

So DelDOT already has a full plate in its STIP.
It was in projects. It could be in in there, Ill look around.
Why is it taking so long for them to get stuff done? Does Deldot have a shortage of workers? Do they need to expand in order to get this sh*t done?

Highway construction has always been expensive, but especially so in the last 10 to 15 years. 

$400 million to build the US-301 tollroad.
I know, those prices are crazy. But it seems like back in the day, they built these roads so fast & now it takes 15 years just to get everyone to agree. Can the people just let certain areas be built to handle the traffic it needs to handle & they  can go live in the areas where the highway & big roads that scare them aren’t.


The same people that complain about roads in Delaware are the same people who want them improved, either get a horse or drive a car, the choice is yours.


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While it seems that way, many plans took years or decades before they became reality. When you look back, especially before you were alive, it appears everything went fast. In reality, projects like a Route 1 moved very slowly. No doubt if you were around in the 1980's you would've question and argued the point of building Rt. 1 from Smyrna to Dover first, rather than from 95 to Smyrna. But today, you look back and act as if it was one quick process in which it was done seamlessly and effortlessly.

And today, we have many more regulations than we did in the past...Which requires a lot more time to complete. You may think that's a bad idea...but then again these are the same regs that make sure you're not inhaling asbestos and lead paint from your walls.
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Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1251 on: March 10, 2019, 11:22:02 PM »



While it seems that way, many plans took years or decades before they became reality. When you look back, especially before you were alive, it appears everything went fast. In reality, projects like a Route 1 moved very slowly. No doubt if you were around in the 1980's you would've question and argued the point of building Rt. 1 from Smyrna to Dover first, rather than from 95 to Smyrna. But today, you look back and act as if it was one quick process in which it was done seamlessly and effortlessly.

And today, we have many more regulations than we did in the past...Which requires a lot more time to complete. You may think that's a bad idea...but then again these are the same regs that make sure you're not inhaling asbestos and lead paint from your walls.

True. That does make sense, I did think of the new regulations that are in place. Which does help in the long run.


& I’m sorry did you just say they built Route 1 from Smyrna to Dover? Not 95 To Dover? I see on the map posted above it was not built at the same time & very questionable aswell. Good thing I wasn’t around . I woulda caused a ruckus.


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Beltway

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1252 on: March 11, 2019, 09:43:29 PM »

The US 113 project as you understand it is dead in the water for the time being and is not on long range plans. The information you see on DelDOT's website is extremely out-of-date, and their new project page format eliminated all of the following, more recent information: Milford and Lincoln killed their section off years ago and Millsboro killed off their bypass 4-ish years ago. All that remains are sporadic interchange construction projects in problem areas, a widening project in Millsboro, and a neutered northern bypass of Millsboro for DE Route 24. There are no cohesive long range plans for a freeway facility along the entirety of US 113, let alone even part of it. If something like this were to be resurrected it would take literal decades before construction began unless an inordinate amount of cash from an outside source was siphoned into it.
EDIT: I take back what I said about long range plans, DelDOT still has a line for it in their budget for FY20 - FY25, though they only plan on spending on ROW for the next five years.

So what exactly are DelDOT's current plans for north-south highway improvements?   DE-1 is clearly high on the list as a vital corridor to Delaware, with the segments south of DAFB to the beaches receiving improvements including new interchanges.

Delaware has completed 4-lane north-south Delmarva corridors with US-13 and US-113, and Maryland's final segments of US-113 will bring that whole corridor up to a 4-lane standard.

DelDOT also is studying at least one east-west route, that being DE-404, since Maryland has now 4-laned most of theirs, and Delaware wants to follow suit to help the east-west beach traffic.  Bringing a busy 2-lane corridor up to a 4-lane standard is a much higher priority than addressing US-13 and US-113 which already provide two ample north-south 4-lane corridors in Delaware.

The Delmarva is like certain Canadian provinces that utilize 4-lane at-grade highways for the long distance routes.  I noticed this back in 1972 when I first started driving there.  The strategy has been to build more of those type highways rather than build a central freeway or two.

I mapped out a proposal back then to build a beach freeway between the Bay Bridge and the beaches.  Dunno if it ever will come to fruition.
 
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 09:46:24 PM by Beltway »
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sprjus4

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1253 on: March 11, 2019, 10:17:49 PM »

DE-1 is clearly high on the list as a vital corridor to Delaware, with the segments south of DAFB to the beaches receiving improvements including new interchanges.
I think the highest priority for DE-1 is bringing up to "expressway" standards, a non-limited-access roadway but with no traffic signals to impede traffic flow. That's what all the grade-separation and interchange projects are accomplishing.

Bringing a busy 2-lane corridor up to a 4-lane standard is a much higher priority than addressing US-13 and US-113 which already provide two ample north-south 4-lane corridors in Delaware.
Then why were the rural segments of the DE-1 superhighway completed? Between Dover and Smyrna (5 miles), Smyrna to Odessa (10 miles), and Odessa to St. Georges (10 miles), 4-lane rural non-limited-access US 13 existed at mainly 55 MPH. Besides from the town bypasses, one could argue building DE-1 as one continuous freeway wasn't needed, for the same reasons you're arguing a freeway in the US-13 / US-113 corridor is not needed. A lot of traffic signals and towns impede US-13 south of Dover, and some, but less so, for US-113. It's kind of in the same boat US-13 was north of Dover before the superhighway was built. 4-lane rural highway passing thru towns with traffic signals.

I do agree though that 4-laning a 2-lane corridor is more important than freeway-ing a four-lane corridor, but it's not "not needed", just less of a priority and should be built after the 2-lane widening is completed.

The Delmarva is like certain Canadian provinces that utilize 4-lane at-grade highways for the long distance routes.  I noticed this back in 1972 when I first started driving there.  The strategy has been to build more of those type highways rather than build a central freeway or two.
Debatable, but the DE-1 superhighway begs to differ. US-13 between Dover and St. Georges is in the same condition as US-13 is south of Dover. Just with no 65 MPH limited-access freeway paralleling it. If a freeway parallel to US-13 from Dover northward was arguable and justified enough that it was actually constructed, the same could occur south of there in the future for the same reasons.

I mapped out a proposal back then to build a beach freeway between the Bay Bridge and the beaches.  Dunno if it ever will come to fruition.
An interesting concept. I think the biggest priority should be 4-lane the Ocean City Expressway, then upgrade the limited-access, at-grade roadway to Salisbury. North of there is more of a task.
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Beltway

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1254 on: March 11, 2019, 10:26:28 PM »

Bringing a busy 2-lane corridor up to a 4-lane standard is a much higher priority than addressing US-13 and US-113 which already provide two ample north-south 4-lane corridors in Delaware.
Then why were the rural segments of the DE-1 superhighway completed? Between Dover and Smyrna (5 miles), Smyrna to Odessa (10 miles), and Odessa to St. Georges (10 miles), 4-lane rural non-limited-access US 13 existed at mainly 55 MPH. Besides from the town bypasses, one could argue building DE-1 as one continuous freeway wasn't needed, for the same reasons you're arguing a freeway in the US-13 / US-113 corridor is not needed. A lot of traffic signals and towns impede US-13 south of Dover, and some, but less so, for US-113. It's kind of in the same boat US-13 was north of Dover before the superhighway was built. 4-lane rural highway passing thru towns with traffic signals.

Did you ever drive it back then?  It was overloaded, especially on summer weekends and holidays, the St. Georges Bridge was especially problematic, and the old US-13 Dover Bypass was all developed alongside and had poor traffic handling ability.

Traffic volumes south of Dover on US-13 were much lower and even today between US-13 and DE-1/US-113 these highways operate well enough.
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sprjus4

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1255 on: March 11, 2019, 10:47:53 PM »

Did you ever drive it back then?  It was overloaded, especially on summer weekends and holidays, the St. Georges Bridge was especially problematic, and the old US-13 Dover Bypass was all developed alongside and had poor traffic handling ability.
Building town bypasses up to freeway-standards is one thing. What's happening on DE-1 down to the beaches to convert it into "expressway" with non-limited-access four-lane highway with no signals but rather interchanges is also one thing. Constructing a rural four-lane freeway parallel to a four-lane rural roadway with no traffic signals is different. It allows traffic to flow faster, being 65 MPH over 55 MPH, but when we're talking rural stretches with no signals, it's not much different.

I never mentioned the bridge and north of there, I understand the need for freeway beyond there. But like I mentioned, 10 mile stretches between towns south of there where you have four-lane freeway and four lane rural divided highway running side by side. I mean, tying limited-access bypasses into those rural stretches would have had almost the same benefit, and also a lot cheaper.

I'm not saying the freeway is useless, I agree it's a nice thing to have. But in the matter of trying to prove this point, it would have also served fine in rural stretches w/ no signals to impede traffic.

Traffic volumes south of Dover on US-13 were much lower and even today between US-13 and DE-1/US-113 these highways operate well enough.
It's certainly growing. US-13 and US-113 have about 30,000 AADT from Dover southwards to Maryland. The signals can cause some recurring congestion as well. Certainly the volumes warrant a  freeway build, or at least an expressway build, with no signals. Though a full freeway would be the most ideal, clearly they thought so on the Dover northward portion, instead of freeway bypasses and non-limited-access, expressway in the rural sections.
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Beltway

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1256 on: March 11, 2019, 11:59:11 PM »

Did you ever drive it back then?  It was overloaded, especially on summer weekends and holidays, the St. Georges Bridge was especially problematic, and the old US-13 Dover Bypass was all developed alongside and had poor traffic handling ability.
Building town bypasses up to freeway-standards is one thing. What's happening on DE-1 down to the beaches to convert it into "expressway" with non-limited-access four-lane highway with no signals but rather interchanges is also one thing. Constructing a rural four-lane freeway parallel to a four-lane rural roadway with no traffic signals is different. It allows traffic to flow faster, being 65 MPH over 55 MPH, but when we're talking rural stretches with no signals, it's not much different.

Odessa and Smyrna have urban sections and signals and needed to be bypassed, and there are other signals between Odessa and Dover.

The lowest AADT today on the DE-1 "Relief Route" exceeds 36,000 and that is even with the old US-13 remaining in place.  Some parts have double that or more.  That is a highway that could clearly warrant a designation such as I-195.

Traffic volumes south of Dover on US-13 were much lower and even today between US-13 and DE-1/US-113 these highways operate well enough.
It's certainly growing. US-13 and US-113 have about 30,000 AADT from Dover southwards to Maryland. The signals can cause some recurring congestion as well. Certainly the volumes warrant a  freeway build, or at least an expressway build, with no signals. Though a full freeway would be the most ideal, clearly they thought so on the Dover northward portion, instead of freeway bypasses and non-limited-access, expressway in the rural sections.

US-113 trends down to the upper teens in some places and US-13 trends down to the lower twenties in some places.

The US-13 route and the US-113/DE-1 routes south of Dover down to where US-13 and US-113 join are almost equal in time and distance, about 2 miles and 2 minutes different.  When the last projects in Maryland are complete then US-113 may become the preferred route.  Either way, will be two north-south 4-lane corridors. 

Like I said, Saskatchewan or Manitoba, systems of at-grade 4-lane highways with a few short freeway segments.
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Alex4897

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1257 on: March 12, 2019, 02:10:58 AM »

So what exactly are DelDOT's current plans for north-south highway improvements?

At the moment they're at the drawing board figuring that out I suppose. Things aren't too bad now on US 13 and US 113 outside of a few hotspots during beach season, but I know they'd certainly like to get ahead of the curve and get a limited-access highway built before the county fills in with new development and traffic gets irreparably bad.

DelDOT also is studying at least one east-west route, that being DE-404, since Maryland has now 4-laned most of theirs, and Delaware wants to follow suit to help the east-west beach traffic.  Bringing a busy 2-lane corridor up to a 4-lane standard is a much higher priority than addressing US-13 and US-113 which already provide two ample north-south 4-lane corridors in Delaware.

Are they? I've always thought such an east-west corridor was something the state needed but to date I don't think I've seen DelDOT acknowledge that by looking deeper into sweeping improvements for DE 404.
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Beltway

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1258 on: March 12, 2019, 06:41:46 AM »

So what exactly are DelDOT's current plans for north-south highway improvements?
At the moment they're at the drawing board figuring that out I suppose. Things aren't too bad now on US 13 and US 113 outside of a few hotspots during beach season, but I know they'd certainly like to get ahead of the curve and get a limited-access highway built before the county fills in with new development and traffic gets irreparably bad.

Looking for actual official studies.  Official studies for Dover Extension of the Delaware Turnpike went back to 1971.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1259 on: March 12, 2019, 04:54:29 PM »

So what exactly are DelDOT's current plans for north-south highway improvements?
At the moment they're at the drawing board figuring that out I suppose. Things aren't too bad now on US 13 and US 113 outside of a few hotspots during beach season, but I know they'd certainly like to get ahead of the curve and get a limited-access highway built before the county fills in with new development and traffic gets irreparably bad.

Looking for actual official studies.  Official studies for Dover Extension of the Delaware Turnpike went back to 1971.
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/pdf/113-Roll-Map-Preferred.pdf

Currently they're looking to upgrade US 113 between south of Milford to Millsboro (18 miles) to interstate standards. Nothing planned for Milford and Millsboro specifically, due to opposition blocking previous studies & preferred alignments.

It's not fictional as you've claimed umpteenth times, this has been fully studied from Maryland to Milford, though only the segment between the two is the real focus currently. The towns may be bypassed in the future if the rural segment is constructed to create a continuous system.

US-113 trends down to the upper teens in some places and US-13 trends down to the lower twenties in some places.
The long-distance nature of the corridor, and those volumes alone warrant freeway. Back down here in Virginia, you've stated that while I-73 isn't a priority, it should come eventually, and that corridor gets max 13,000 AADT in some locations. You've also supported I-42 in NC, which gets about 20,000 AADT, less in some areas.

This isn't "fictional", "vanity", "baloney", or whatever words you want to slap to it.

I understand a freeway along US 13 or US 113 isn't a priority, though it's certainly bound to happen in the future. As mentioned above, an 18 mile stretch of US 113 is on Delaware's radar to be upgraded to interstate standards in the near future, and could lead to additional segments down to Maryland, and to DE 1 being constructed, those being on new location likely. Maryland may due, or at least study similar upgrades to US 113 in the future to freeway if Delaware indeed comes to their doorstep in 10-15 years.
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Beltway

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1260 on: March 12, 2019, 06:38:56 PM »

Looking for actual official studies.  Official studies for Dover Extension of the Delaware Turnpike went back to 1971.
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/pdf/113-Roll-Map-Preferred.pdf
Currently they're looking to upgrade US 113 between south of Milford to Millsboro (18 miles) to interstate standards. Nothing planned for Milford and Millsboro specifically, due to opposition blocking previous studies & preferred alignments.

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.

Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1261 on: March 12, 2019, 06:47:10 PM »

Looking for actual official studies.  Official studies for Dover Extension of the Delaware Turnpike went back to 1971.
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/pdf/113-Roll-Map-Preferred.pdf
Currently they're looking to upgrade US 113 between south of Milford to Millsboro (18 miles) to interstate standards. Nothing planned for Milford and Millsboro specifically, due to opposition blocking previous studies & preferred alignments.

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.

Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
Delaware poster is not DelDOT officially, not to mention that at least there is a factual source.

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1262 on: March 12, 2019, 06:49:21 PM »

Looking for actual official studies.  Official studies for Dover Extension of the Delaware Turnpike went back to 1971.
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/pdf/113-Roll-Map-Preferred.pdf
Currently they're looking to upgrade US 113 between south of Milford to Millsboro (18 miles) to interstate standards. Nothing planned for Milford and Millsboro specifically, due to opposition blocking previous studies & preferred alignments.

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.

Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
How many projects will Lower Slower Delaware Residents kill off? They do not whatsoever want sprawl to come down there, and I understand. But there comes a time when you need to upgrade for everyone.


This is what Im talking about when I say only certain “Parties” control what goes on. These projects are supposed to move long commuting traffic & short commuting traffic. But these people dont want a highway anywhere near their towns-NOT EVEN A BYPASS?! I think congress of Delaware would have to sign a bill in order to get a full De-1 all the way through the state at this rate. Its not fair for everyone & then they complain about beach traffic. Its a shame what we have to do to get things done.


This is why Delaware is losing opportunities, because people only think about their selves. Very very selfish.


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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1263 on: March 12, 2019, 06:53:40 PM »

Looking for actual official studies.  Official studies for Dover Extension of the Delaware Turnpike went back to 1971.
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/pdf/113-Roll-Map-Preferred.pdf
Currently they're looking to upgrade US 113 between south of Milford to Millsboro (18 miles) to interstate standards. Nothing planned for Milford and Millsboro specifically, due to opposition blocking previous studies & preferred alignments.

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.

Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
The US 113 project as you understand it is dead in the water for the time being and is not on long range plans. The information you see on DelDOT's website is extremely out-of-date, and their new project page format eliminated all of the following, more recent information: Milford and Lincoln killed their section off years ago and Millsboro killed off their bypass 4-ish years ago. All that remains are sporadic interchange construction projects in problem areas, a widening project in Millsboro, and a neutered northern bypass of Millsboro for DE Route 24. There are no cohesive long range plans for a freeway facility along the entirety of US 113, let alone even part of it. If something like this were to be resurrected it would take literal decades before construction began unless an inordinate amount of cash from an outside source was siphoned into it.

This was the post. Projects in Milford and Lincoln were eliminated (bypasses), and Millsboro has extremely reduced the size of their bypass to about 4 miles, and now only 2-lane with a couple at-grade intersections simply serve DE Route 24. Older plans were for that small bypass to be a larger, 4-lane freeway bypass all the way down to the Maryland state line.

The rural segment between Lincoln and Millsboro is still on the plan, about 18 miles. The plan with all the interchanges & frontage roads I linked was from November 2017. Certainly not "way out of date". Also note this about the same poster's post.

EDIT: I take back what I said about long range plans, DelDOT still has a line for it in their budget for FY20 - FY25, though they only plan on spending on ROW for the next five years. I have no idea what their plan for this is. They've been splitting out individual projects from the North / South Study in the wake of the freeway proposals getting knocked down, so I don't know if they've gone back to the drawing board to try and work on a corridor-wide on-alignment reconstruction or what. They have construction pegged at $180,000,000 for this "project", so something to watch for I guess...?

So if the rural segment is going to built, I could certainly see revised and realigned versions of the previously canceled bypasses being revived once again, because at that point it's not a "town bypass", it's simply a continuous freeway passing near the town and providing interchanges for access.

How many projects will Lower Slower Delaware Residents kill off? They do not whatsoever want sprawl to come down there, and I understand. But there comes a time when you need to upgrade for everyone.

This is what Im talking about when I say only certain “Parties” control what goes on. These projects are supposed to move long commuting traffic & short commuting traffic. But these people dont want a highway anywhere near their towns-NOT EVEN A BYPASS?! I think congress of Delaware would have to sign a bill in order to get a full De-1 all the way through the state at this rate. Its not fair for everyone & then they complain about beach traffic. Its a shame what we have to do to get things done.


This is why Delaware is losing opportunities, because people only think about their selves. Very very selfish.
It's real bad. They've killed the urban bypasses of a US-113 freeway from Milford to Maryland, leaving only an 18 mile stretch of rural freeway remaining. They complain about traffic, so when DelDOT says hey, we'll construct a US-113 freeway to get rid of the problems, they cry and complain. Even better, so when DelDOT proposes urban solutions (which aren't really a true fix, that's what a bypass is for), they still complain, no it removes access to my business, etc. They want their problems fixed, but when people try to fix them, they don't like it. DelDOT needs to just move forward and build the bypasses, and it will end up being for the better in the end despite initial opposition.

Reminds me of Charlottesville, VA.

Like I mentioned above, if a rural 18 miles of US-113 freeway is built, I could certainly see the bypasses being revived in one way or another because they will be more of a need by that point, rather instead of being simply a "town bypass", it's more of a continuous freeway passing near the town with interchanges for access.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1264 on: March 12, 2019, 07:42:51 PM »

Looking for actual official studies.  Official studies for Dover Extension of the Delaware Turnpike went back to 1971.
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/
https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/pdf/113-Roll-Map-Preferred.pdf
Currently they're looking to upgrade US 113 between south of Milford to Millsboro (18 miles) to interstate standards. Nothing planned for Milford and Millsboro specifically, due to opposition blocking previous studies & preferred alignments.

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.

Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.

The links sprjus4 posted are what's more up to date, they were put up on the old project portal within the last year-ish but aren't directly accessible now from the new project portal. The new project portal has a super general description that I'm fairly certain is what they've been using for the project for quite a while now. But of course as Alps said, I'm not DelDOT and they could be completely reworking everything such that a brand new freeway might be on the table within a few years or that the 2017 roll map is all we're getting, who knows.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1265 on: March 12, 2019, 09:25:30 PM »

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.
Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
The links sprjus4 posted are what's more up to date, they were put up on the old project portal within the last year-ish but aren't directly accessible now from the new project portal. The new project portal has a super general description that I'm fairly certain is what they've been using for the project for quite a while now. But of course as Alps said, I'm not DelDOT and they could be completely reworking everything such that a brand new freeway might be on the table within a few years or that the 2017 roll map is all we're getting, who knows.

OK, I can accept those explanations, but I still find the DelDOT links posted to be confusing and not very coherent, and most of them didn't cite any final decision; and why chop US-113 into 5 segments and not have one EIS/location study for the whole corridor?

Like I said, I followed the DE-1 "Relief Route" from its early planning stages and there was always a concise and well-organized project plan for the route.  The US-113 material has little in comparison.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1266 on: March 12, 2019, 10:05:31 PM »

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.
Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
The links sprjus4 posted are what's more up to date, they were put up on the old project portal within the last year-ish but aren't directly accessible now from the new project portal. The new project portal has a super general description that I'm fairly certain is what they've been using for the project for quite a while now. But of course as Alps said, I'm not DelDOT and they could be completely reworking everything such that a brand new freeway might be on the table within a few years or that the 2017 roll map is all we're getting, who knows.

OK, I can accept those explanations, but I still find the DelDOT links posted to be confusing and not very coherent, and most of them didn't cite any final decision; and why chop US-113 into 5 segments and not have one EIS/location study for the whole corridor?

Like I said, I followed the DE-1 "Relief Route" from its early planning stages and there was always a concise and well-organized project plan for the route.  The US-113 material has little in comparison.
The intent was to have an entire freeway built on the entire US-113 corridor from Milford to Maryland, however due to community opposition, and really a careless mindset the towns have to enhancing the US-113 corridor, the project has been split into four separate ones to address issues in each locality, and the goal to have a full freeway from Maryland to Milford has decreased slightly, though that 18 mile rural stretch is still being considered.

https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/

While this page has a lot of outdated material, it provides a good idea of what the original intents were before the towns and communities decided to block the proposals.

The older project overview for the study was -

"The overall purpose of the US 113 North/South Study is to identify an alignment for a continuous limited access roadway from the Maryland/Delaware state line north to SR 1 north of the City of Milford, a total distance of approximately 40 miles. When completed, there will be a north-south limited access highway throughout the state of Delaware. The study also identifies improvements to major east/west routes."

It also indicates that this would be a long-range proposal,  so it could still indeed be on the long-term plan for the next 10 - 20 years. There's no updated information on that however.

"The short-term purpose of this project is to identify, select, and protect an alignment for a limited access US 113 highway through Sussex County. While the road will not be built at this time, choosing the alignment will enable DelDOT to protect the alignment until both need and available funds dictate the timing of construction. This project will provide a road that serves regional and seasonal traffic to points north and south while addressing future local traffic needs. Separating local from through traffic will help to facilitate the current, planned and projected development in Sussex County and its municipalities."

To answer the last question about the US-13 Relief Route study in the 70s and 80s, the US 113 study originally had a set end-goal, which is a limited-access freeway from Milford to Maryland. The only issue that is because of community opposition, instead of working with the communities and coming up with realignments and different alternatives to best fit their needs and desires like was done with the US 13 Relief Route / DE 1 superhighway, they've decided to just drop freeway plans completely in those areas, while keeping them in the rural areas.

Delaware DOT also has a new page which appears would re-evaluate this entire corridor once again based on the previous NEPA studies. The page is extremely unclear as to what the scope of this new study / EIS is really out to do. Continue to appeal to the towns with local improvements, or a full-freeway / long-range solution build out like originally intended. It indicates -

"This project will continue to work on viable alternatives for a limited access highway throughout Sussex County to address existing and future transportation needs along US 113 while preserving environmental and historic resources and accommodating planned economic growth."
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Alex4897

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1267 on: March 12, 2019, 10:06:30 PM »

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.
Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
The links sprjus4 posted are what's more up to date, they were put up on the old project portal within the last year-ish but aren't directly accessible now from the new project portal. The new project portal has a super general description that I'm fairly certain is what they've been using for the project for quite a while now. But of course as Alps said, I'm not DelDOT and they could be completely reworking everything such that a brand new freeway might be on the table within a few years or that the 2017 roll map is all we're getting, who knows.

OK, I can accept those explanations, but I still find the DelDOT links posted to be confusing and not very coherent, and most of them didn't cite any final decision; and why chop US-113 into 5 segments and not have one EIS/location study for the whole corridor?

Like I said, I followed the DE-1 "Relief Route" from its early planning stages and there was always a concise and well-organized project plan for the route.  The US-113 material has little in comparison.

I think the General Assembly mandated the North / South Study in the first place given WRA's wording on their own page for the project. Since they also yanked the funding for the Milford section following the lack of consensus for an alternative through there, my guess would be that they forced it to be split into separate sections rather than DelDOT doing that of their own volition. Why the General Assembly would've done it that way is beyond me though.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1268 on: March 12, 2019, 10:31:18 PM »

While this page has a lot of outdated material, it provides a good idea of what the original intents were before the towns and communities decided to block the proposals.

Then what is the use of discussing it?  You might just as well advocate building the Crosstown Expressway in Chicago, or I-70 thru Leakin Park in Baltimore, or a new freeway in North Jersey.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1269 on: March 13, 2019, 12:32:23 AM »

While this page has a lot of outdated material, it provides a good idea of what the original intents were before the towns and communities decided to block the proposals.

Then what is the use of discussing it?  You might just as well advocate building the Crosstown Expressway in Chicago, or I-70 thru Leakin Park in Baltimore, or a new freeway in North Jersey.
Why does every one of your posts ask a question negating what has been posted previously?

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1270 on: March 13, 2019, 01:01:41 AM »

While this page has a lot of outdated material, it provides a good idea of what the original intents were before the towns and communities decided to block the proposals.
Then what is the use of discussing it?  You might just as well advocate building the Crosstown Expressway in Chicago, or I-70 thru Leakin Park in Baltimore, or a new freeway in North Jersey.
Why does every one of your posts ask a question negating what has been posted previously?

Does every single one of my posts ask a question negating what has been posted previously?

IMHO, it was a valid question, given the comment about the webpage having "outdated material", and the comment about "original intents" that were "before the towns and communities decided to block the proposals".  If the proposals were blocked by the towns and communities, then it sounds like the boat is in irons.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1271 on: March 13, 2019, 01:16:32 AM »

“Sign an Executive Order” that will get the highway built by 2025!


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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1272 on: March 13, 2019, 06:18:34 AM »

We were told by a Delaware poster that DelDOT website material for US-113 and US-13 is way out of date and that nearly all proposals have been canceled.
Now it is sad that they would leave obsolete material on their website but they apparently have.
The links sprjus4 posted are what's more up to date, they were put up on the old project portal within the last year-ish but aren't directly accessible now from the new project portal. The new project portal has a super general description that I'm fairly certain is what they've been using for the project for quite a while now. But of course as Alps said, I'm not DelDOT and they could be completely reworking everything such that a brand new freeway might be on the table within a few years or that the 2017 roll map is all we're getting, who knows.

OK, I can accept those explanations, but I still find the DelDOT links posted to be confusing and not very coherent, and most of them didn't cite any final decision; and why chop US-113 into 5 segments and not have one EIS/location study for the whole corridor?

Like I said, I followed the DE-1 "Relief Route" from its early planning stages and there was always a concise and well-organized project plan for the route.  The US-113 material has little in comparison.
The intent was to have an entire freeway built on the entire US-113 corridor from Milford to Maryland, however due to community opposition, and really a careless mindset the towns have to enhancing the US-113 corridor, the project has been split into four separate ones to address issues in each locality, and the goal to have a full freeway from Maryland to Milford has decreased slightly, though that 18 mile rural stretch is still being considered.

https://www.deldot.gov/information/projects/us113/

While this page has a lot of outdated material, it provides a good idea of what the original intents were before the towns and communities decided to block the proposals.

The older project overview for the study was -

"The overall purpose of the US 113 North/South Study is to identify an alignment for a continuous limited access roadway from the Maryland/Delaware state line north to SR 1 north of the City of Milford, a total distance of approximately 40 miles. When completed, there will be a north-south limited access highway throughout the state of Delaware. The study also identifies improvements to major east/west routes."

It also indicates that this would be a long-range proposal,  so it could still indeed be on the long-term plan for the next 10 - 20 years. There's no updated information on that however.

"The short-term purpose of this project is to identify, select, and protect an alignment for a limited access US 113 highway through Sussex County. While the road will not be built at this time, choosing the alignment will enable DelDOT to protect the alignment until both need and available funds dictate the timing of construction. This project will provide a road that serves regional and seasonal traffic to points north and south while addressing future local traffic needs. Separating local from through traffic will help to facilitate the current, planned and projected development in Sussex County and its municipalities."

To answer the last question about the US-13 Relief Route study in the 70s and 80s, the US 113 study originally had a set end-goal, which is a limited-access freeway from Milford to Maryland. The only issue that is because of community opposition, instead of working with the communities and coming up with realignments and different alternatives to best fit their needs and desires like was done with the US 13 Relief Route / DE 1 superhighway, they've decided to just drop freeway plans completely in those areas, while keeping them in the rural areas.

Delaware DOT also has a new page which appears would re-evaluate this entire corridor once again based on the previous NEPA studies. The page is extremely unclear as to what the scope of this new study / EIS is really out to do. Continue to appeal to the towns with local improvements, or a full-freeway / long-range solution build out like originally intended. It indicates -

"This project will continue to work on viable alternatives for a limited access highway throughout Sussex County to address existing and future transportation needs along US 113 while preserving environmental and historic resources and accommodating planned economic growth."

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the opposition is due to the thinking that 113 is really supposed to be a minor spur route off of US 13, and they do have a point.  Why are they not upgrading or paralleling US 13 instead?  Did Dover feel that the residents on US 113 are of a lower class, and the pols could get what they wanted blasted thru?  What would've worked 40 or 50 years ago isn't going to work today.  It also doesn't help that the view is to help get people to/from Maryland, which never usually sits well with your own state's residents.  And everyone can see that if you widen this road, now they've opened up the possibility for other roads in their communities for more traffic.

What also isn't going to help: The 301 issue.  I think in hindsight making 301 a toll road rather than bypassing 301 with a toll road will only serve as an example to other municipalities as to what can happen to their communities.
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Beltway

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1273 on: March 13, 2019, 10:03:38 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the opposition is due to the thinking that 113 is really supposed to be a minor spur route off of US 13, and they do have a point.  Why are they not upgrading or paralleling US 13 instead?  Did Dover feel that the residents on US 113 are of a lower class, and the pols could get what they wanted blasted thru?  What would've worked 40 or 50 years ago isn't going to work today.  It also doesn't help that the view is to help get people to/from Maryland, which never usually sits well with your own state's residents.  And everyone can see that if you widen this road, now they've opened up the possibility for other roads in their communities for more traffic.

A decision was made by Delaware and Maryland in the 1970s or maybe even in the 1960s, to develop two separate 4-lane corridors south of Dover, rather than one freeway corridor and one (presumably) modernized 2-lane corridor.  That would have been a freeway US-13 and a mostly 2-lane US-113.  I suppose the merits could be debated either way as to which was the best way to serve these corridors.

Given that it is down to the last 10 miles to complete MD US-113 to 4-lane standards, it has taken a long time.

Like I said the Delmarva is like some Canadian provinces in how it developed its principal highway system.

If MD-404 (east of MD-16) and DE-404 is upgraded to 4 lanes with town bypasses, that will create parallel 4-lane capacity to the US-50 corridor between the Western Shore and the Maryland beaches.  More of the same Delmarva strategy cited above, and a lot of work remaining to complete it.   MD-404 and DE-404 also provide routing to the Delaware beaches.
 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:06:33 AM by Beltway »
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #1274 on: March 14, 2019, 11:52:01 PM »

I would suggest that south of Milford they should just build a freeway that is west of US 113 and then have it at a shallow angle that the further south it goes it moves away from US 113 and closer to US 13 so it meets the NE corner of the Salisbury Bypass. 

This way both US 13 and 113 remain as independent routes and keep the interchanges like Turnpike distances where maybe only roads like US 9, DE 404, etc only have access to and from it.
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