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Author Topic: PA Turnpike News  (Read 525822 times)

Roadsguy

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2025 on: October 12, 2018, 11:57:45 PM »

Does the PTC plan to remove the toll plazas from the newly-AET sections at some point?

Since tolls are no longer being collected at 576's exits, I would assume they will come down.  The ones for 376 will probably have the canopies removed and replaced with gantries for the tag readers and cameras.

They haven't removed the plazas on 576 yet? I know they intended to since they put in that mainline gantry in the middle of it.
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MASTERNC

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2026 on: October 19, 2018, 09:17:02 PM »

So they're just going to have traffic go slowly through the existing barriers at many spots?  Wow, they're REALLY cheaping out on this!

According to the latest electronic tolling RFP, open road tolling would be targeted for 2024 west of Lancaster.  You can see the approximate tolling point locations on page 229 of the PDF.

https://www.paturnpike.com/OUTPUT/PDFs/RFPs/101001.pdf
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vdeane

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2027 on: October 19, 2018, 11:13:55 PM »

So the "use existing barriers" thing is temporary then.  That makes sense.  The ticket system is certainly a lot of work to convert.
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Roadsguy

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2028 on: November 10, 2018, 06:47:31 PM »

I was just in a trip today going eastbound on the Turnpike approaching the Willow Grove interchange. For some reason, they put up a new diagrammatic sign for the two-lane exit. (It's not an option lane split.) What's really special about it, though, is that in addition to the I-276 shield on the pull-through side, it had a PA Turnpike shield. This is common practice on the NTJP now, but I've never seen this done on the Turnpike mainline before. BGSes for ramps leading to the toll plazas will have Turnpike shields, but once in the system, it's only signed as its Interstate designations.

I don't know exactly when this was put up, but it wasn't there the day the Turnpike-95 flyovers opened when my dad and I went over to drive them. The sign was entirely Highway Gothic, which makes it very likely that the PTC has not switched back to Clearview. (PennDOT I'm not so sure.)

Unfortunately I didn't get a picture since I wasn't expecting it.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 06:49:49 PM by Roadsguy »
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ipeters61

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2029 on: November 11, 2018, 07:51:08 AM »

I don't know exactly when this was put up, but it wasn't there the day the Turnpike-95 flyovers opened when my dad and I went over to drive them. The sign was entirely Highway Gothic, which makes it very likely that the PTC has not switched back to Clearview. (PennDOT I'm not so sure.)
"Has not switched back to Clearview"...what do you mean?  I thought Clearview was now officially deemed unacceptable?  And I thought PennDOT has now switched back to Highway Gothic too?
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ixnay

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2030 on: November 11, 2018, 08:32:07 AM »

I don't know exactly when this was put up, but it wasn't there the day the Turnpike-95 flyovers opened when my dad and I went over to drive them. The sign was entirely Highway Gothic, which makes it very likely that the PTC has not switched back to Clearview. (PennDOT I'm not so sure.)
"Has not switched back to Clearview"...what do you mean?  I thought Clearview was now officially deemed unacceptable?  And I thought PennDOT has now switched back to Highway Gothic too?

"Did you ever have to make up your mind
And pick up on one and leave the other behind?"

Make up *your* mind, highway officials!

ixnay
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Roadsguy

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2031 on: November 11, 2018, 09:08:29 AM »

I don't know exactly when this was put up, but it wasn't there the day the Turnpike-95 flyovers opened when my dad and I went over to drive them. The sign was entirely Highway Gothic, which makes it very likely that the PTC has not switched back to Clearview. (PennDOT I'm not so sure.)
"Has not switched back to Clearview"...what do you mean?  I thought Clearview was now officially deemed unacceptable?  And I thought PennDOT has now switched back to Highway Gothic too?

"Did you ever have to make up your mind
And pick up on one and leave the other behind?"

Make up *your* mind, highway officials!

ixnay

Wasn't it Congress that reinstated approval in a bill or something?

As before, it's up to the states to use it or not. Hopefully PennDOT and/or the PTC realize that maybe there's a reason the FHWA would yank approval.
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ipeters61

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2032 on: November 11, 2018, 11:52:23 AM »

I don't know exactly when this was put up, but it wasn't there the day the Turnpike-95 flyovers opened when my dad and I went over to drive them. The sign was entirely Highway Gothic, which makes it very likely that the PTC has not switched back to Clearview. (PennDOT I'm not so sure.)
"Has not switched back to Clearview"...what do you mean?  I thought Clearview was now officially deemed unacceptable?  And I thought PennDOT has now switched back to Highway Gothic too?

"Did you ever have to make up your mind
And pick up on one and leave the other behind?"

Make up *your* mind, highway officials!

ixnay

Wasn't it Congress that reinstated approval in a bill or something?

As before, it's up to the states to use it or not. Hopefully PennDOT and/or the PTC realize that maybe there's a reason the FHWA would yank approval.
Well I found something that did pass the US House (Title I, Section 125)... https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/3354?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22h+res+555%22%5D%7D
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briantroutman

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2033 on: November 11, 2018, 12:47:59 PM »

Just to summarize—this isn't a matter of the FHWA or any DOT being indecisive.

After over a decade of review, FHWA decided to rescind its interim approval of Clearview—and by doing, in effect mandating that state DOTs revert back to using standard FHWA sign alphabets.

A group of legislators representing Texas ramrodded through a line item in a kitchen sink appropriations bill forcing FHWA to allow Clearview once again.
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PHLBOS

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2034 on: November 12, 2018, 09:50:08 AM »

Just to summarize—this isn't a matter of the FHWA or any DOT being indecisive.

After over a decade of review, FHWA decided to rescind its interim approval of Clearview—and by doing, in effect mandating that state DOTs revert back to using standard FHWA sign alphabets.

A group of legislators representing Texas ramrodded through a line item in a kitchen sink appropriations bill forcing FHWA to allow Clearview once again.
And since that happened; three state DOT agencies (KY, TX & VA) have presently since reintroduced usage of the Clearview font per the original IA.

In PA, aside from some already-fabricated signs being recently erected, Clearview seemed all but dead until a couple of new ramp signs for I-95 northbound in Northeast Philadelphia that featured New York lettering in Clearview started appearing about a month ago.  In contrast, other related-new signs and/or mods (New York legends placed over Trenton legends) in the area featured such in Highway Gothic.

Time will tell whether or not those newer Clearview installs were just isolated instances; but that's for another existing thread topic.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 09:54:12 AM by PHLBOS »
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theroadwayone

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2035 on: December 01, 2018, 02:23:44 AM »

I had a look at the AET plan for the turnpike; they could do "in-place" AET at all four toll plazas with Express EZ-Pass on the ticketed parts (Gateway, Warrendale, Mid-County, Neshaminy Falls) and the two on the Mon-Fayette Expressway that have it.
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Bitmapped

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2036 on: January 11, 2019, 11:36:01 PM »

According to the Turnpike's 2019 toll schedule and No Cash Zone website, the Fort Littleton and Blue Mountain interchanges have joined Willow Hill as being unattended. If you don't have E-ZPass, it's toll-by-plate and you get a bill in the mail.
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MASTERNC

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2037 on: January 15, 2019, 08:20:36 PM »

According to the Turnpike's 2019 toll schedule and No Cash Zone website, the Fort Littleton and Blue Mountain interchanges have joined Willow Hill as being unattended. If you don't have E-ZPass, it's toll-by-plate and you get a bill in the mail.

Not surprised - they had talked about putting in unattended toll booths a few years ago but never followed through.  I guess AET changed that plan.

EDIT: Here's the press release on the change

https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2019/20190111130354.htm
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 01:11:00 PM by MASTERNC »
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Bitmapped

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2038 on: January 18, 2019, 08:29:17 PM »

I'm kind of surprised PTC is requiring users to manually scan their toll tickets. All of the interchanges I can think of have license plate cameras on both exit and entrance. It seems like it would be easier to just match up entrance and exit transactions than to have special equipment to scan tickets.
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vdeane

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2039 on: January 18, 2019, 08:35:15 PM »

Well, if they didn't, people would be able to take those toll tickets and use them on other trips where they enter from a different interchange.  Though it does strike me as odd to spend money on ticket scanners and automatic collection based on tickets when it will be switching to true AET soon.
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ipeters61

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2040 on: January 18, 2019, 09:55:18 PM »

Well, if they didn't, people would be able to take those toll tickets and use them on other trips where they enter from a different interchange.  Though it does strike me as odd to spend money on ticket scanners and automatic collection based on tickets when it will be switching to true AET soon.
Aren't the tickets time stamped?  I doubt PTC would believe someone entering on January 15 at 12pm would be exiting on January 16 at 2pm.
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PAHighways

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2041 on: January 18, 2019, 10:05:58 PM »

Well, if they didn't, people would be able to take those toll tickets and use them on other trips where they enter from a different interchange.  Though it does strike me as odd to spend money on ticket scanners and automatic collection based on tickets when it will be switching to true AET soon.
Aren't the tickets time stamped?  I doubt PTC would believe someone entering on January 15 at 12pm would be exiting on January 16 at 2pm.
They are dated and time-stamped.

SM-G965U

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MASTERNC

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2042 on: January 19, 2019, 12:11:18 PM »

Well, if they didn't, people would be able to take those toll tickets and use them on other trips where they enter from a different interchange.  Though it does strike me as odd to spend money on ticket scanners and automatic collection based on tickets when it will be switching to true AET soon.
Aren't the tickets time stamped?  I doubt PTC would believe someone entering on January 15 at 12pm would be exiting on January 16 at 2pm.
They are dated and time-stamped.

SM-G965U



And isn’t there a time limit to exit the turnpike? Maybe that’s another state.
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briantroutman

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2043 on: January 19, 2019, 12:39:56 PM »

Yes, there is: The PTC refers to the time limit as the “Max Time Formula”, and being in possession of a toll ticket whose age exceeds the Max Time Formula is considered to be a violation of Pennsylvania Code 601.13  - Evasion of fare:

Quote from: Pennsylvania Code 601.13
(2) The presentation to a State Trooper or toll collector of a toll ticket which indicates that the patron has exceeded the travel time allotted based on the max-time formula, where the patron cannot produce satisfactory physical evidence, including the driver’s record of duty status, demonstrating that the age of the ticket was the result of actual excess time spent legitimately on the Turnpike system by the patron and was not the result of fare evasion or attempted fare evasion.

Also violations under that law are possession of multiple tickets and possession of a ticket issued from an interchange the motorist is heading toward—among other items.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2044 on: January 21, 2019, 08:32:42 PM »

On the NJ Turnpike, while they were time stamped there was nothing encoded that informed us the ticket was older than 24 hours. It just processed the toll as normal.

Not sure if PA's system is different.
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CtrlAltDel

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2045 on: January 21, 2019, 11:10:11 PM »

Yes, there is: The PTC refers to the time limit as the “Max Time Formula”, and being in possession of a toll ticket whose age exceeds the Max Time Formula is considered to be a violation of Pennsylvania Code 601.13  - Evasion of fare:

I've seen many references to it, but I've never seen the actual formula. Does anyone know what it might be?
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ixnay

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2046 on: January 22, 2019, 06:47:45 AM »

Yes, there is: The PTC refers to the time limit as the “Max Time Formula”, and being in possession of a toll ticket whose age exceeds the Max Time Formula is considered to be a violation of Pennsylvania Code 601.13  - Evasion of fare:

I've seen many references to it, but I've never seen the actual formula. Does anyone know what it might be?

That's my question, too.

ixnay
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jeffandnicole

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2047 on: January 22, 2019, 07:56:11 AM »

Yes, there is: The PTC refers to the time limit as the “Max Time Formula”, and being in possession of a toll ticket whose age exceeds the Max Time Formula is considered to be a violation of Pennsylvania Code 601.13  - Evasion of fare:

I've seen many references to it, but I've never seen the actual formula. Does anyone know what it might be?

That's my question, too.

ixnay

Briantroutman literally informed you of the formula 3 posts up.

Yes, there is: The PTC refers to the time limit as the “Max Time Formula”, and being in possession of a toll ticket whose age exceeds the Max Time Formula is considered to be a violation of Pennsylvania Code 601.13  - Evasion of fare:

Quote from: Pennsylvania Code 601.13
(2) The presentation to a State Trooper or toll collector of a toll ticket which indicates that the patron has exceeded the travel time allotted based on the max-time formula, where the patron cannot produce satisfactory physical evidence, including the driver’s record of duty status, demonstrating that the age of the ticket was the result of actual excess time spent legitimately on the Turnpike system by the patron and was not the result of fare evasion or attempted fare evasion.


It's not a mathematical calculation per se.  It's a reasonableness formula.  If you're travelling from Harrisburg to Philly on a nice day with little traffic, and your ticket says you got on Sunday at 7am and it's now Sunday at 7pm, you need to have a good reason why it took you 12 hours to go that distance.  If you had a mechanical breakdown and needed a tow and car repair, that stuff will be well documented.  If you want to claim you were in a service plaza eating the meal of your life, hopefully you have a receipt for that.  If you were in a service plaza taking the dump of your life, well, hopefully the state troopers will take your word for that.

But in reality, they're looking for someone who presents a toll ticket from another day, or an impossible location.  If you're ticket shows you got on in Harrisburg, yet you're on the Turnpike in Breezewood heading east to Philly, it's fairly obvious you're intending on using that toll ticket to pay a fare lower than what you should be paying.
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VTGoose

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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2048 on: January 22, 2019, 08:27:09 AM »

But in reality, they're looking for someone who presents a toll ticket from another day, or an impossible location.  If you're ticket shows you got on in Harrisburg, yet you're on the Turnpike in Breezewood heading east to Philly, it's fairly obvious you're intending on using that toll ticket to pay a fare lower than what you should be paying.

You could also be directionally challenged and went west from Harrisburg, then made an illegal U-turn somewhere around Irwin to get back on the right track. :-)
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Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2049 on: January 22, 2019, 08:35:17 AM »


You could also be directionally challenged and went west from Harrisburg, then made an illegal U-turn somewhere around Irwin to get back on the right track. :-)

Or just enter the eastbound lanes at Sideling Hill instead of the westbound lanes.

SM-G965U

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