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Poll

Which would you prefer?

Third Crossing
- 8 (50%)
Widen the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel
- 8 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 16


Author Topic: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project  (Read 29416 times)

deathtopumpkins

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The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« on: January 18, 2009, 11:30:59 PM »

This board looked lonely, and I couldn't let my region not be represented!  :P Awwww... Voyager beat me to it :P

What do you guys think of VDOT's 3rd Crossing plans? http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/hampton_roads_third_crossing.asp

I think that the proposal to extend I-564 under Craney Island to meet I-664 (as mentioned in the AARoads article on Hampton Roads thanks to my revisions ;)) is not sufficient for the area's transportation needs. When they built the Monitor-Merrimac Memorial Bridge (MMMBT)-Tunnel in the 90s, they planned on diverting some of the traffic from I-64's Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel (HRBT), but in my opinion that failed. I know I always still take the HRBT when heading to the Southside. It's just more direct to hop on 64 eastbound and head straight through into Norfolk, as opposed to getting on 64 westbound, then 664 southbound, VA-164 eastbound (toll) or I-264 eastbound, both with another tunnel, and then dealing with the mess of the interchange for downtown off of I-264. Building another highway east-west will not help a thing, as the Western Freeway (VA-164), just a few miles south of the proposed new one, is not that heavily traveled as it is. And it would still be simpler to just take 64, as 664/564 would be simply a big loop. Thus I think that VDOT should simply forget the Third Crossing project and rebuild the HRBT (a proposal they've actually begun taking seriously now). A new bypass is not the answer, but rather a widened main route. They added a proposal for widening the HRBT in January 2008: http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/hamptonroads/hrbt_expansion_alternatives.asp

So which proposal does everybody think they should go with?

Alex

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 11:37:33 PM »

Its been awhile since I regularly drove the Hampton Roads area, but isn't the HRBT only four overall lanes? That bottleneck should certainly be expanded. As far as the third crossing goes, I always thought that it was a pipe dream more than anything else.

deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 11:43:02 PM »

Yeah, 4 lanes... and periodic closures. I've always thought: Isn't the reason they built a tunnel to not have to close it often? But several times a day someone freaks out in there and they have to close it down and send someone after them. The whole process takes about an hour and backs it up up to 10 miles at times... I must say this is a very antagonizing sight... [linkie]

Some of the ideas they've come up with so far are a high deck girder bridge, or a quadruple-tube tunnel. I don't really care as long as its more than 4 lanes!  :P

Alex

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rawr apples

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 02:32:50 AM »

What do you mean they freak out and people having to come get them?
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 02:37:37 AM »

People panic in the tunnel and crash into a wall or another vehicle usually, but sometimes they do just freak out and stop. Us locals call it "Tunnel Terror Syndrome."

Oh, and when they actually drive all the way through it, they usually don't even make it over 30 mph.

rawr apples

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 02:38:53 AM »

people are strange. That would be a little wierd though, going in a little tunnel on a manmade island in the middle of a body of water
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 02:44:44 AM »

I guess if you've never been through one in your life before... but when we have a total of 6 tunnels around here... its nothing unusual.

deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 01:22:21 PM »

Has your CMSA been voted #1 for worst traffic congestion bottlenecks by many organizations for several years now? :P no? Didn't think so. ;)

ComputerGuy

Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 01:31:57 PM »

But we are the 13th largest US metro area by population and a city of 500,000 is stuck with 4 ways out, 2 being the bridges. See the WSDOT AADT numbers for more INFo.
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 01:45:48 PM »

Yes but we're 1.5 million not 500k :P

And petition your local government if you think it needs to be fixed. If you get enough support they might listen.

Shadow Assassin

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 07:50:56 AM »

Quote
But we are the 13th largest US metro area by population and a city of 500,000 is stuck with 4 ways out, 2 being the bridges. See the WSDOT AADT numbers for more INFo.

... and a metro area of 4 million has only one way in or out from each of the directions, so if a bushfire knocks out the north and south (as well as the west), we're screwed.

So don't complain. :P
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Alex

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2009, 11:46:28 AM »

This brings up a good point about cities with few ways in and out, and I'll start a new thread on it.

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 02:20:06 PM »

I'd never heard of people flipping out in tunnels.  I lived in Boston for many years, which had the Summer and Callahan tunnels, and later the Big Dig.  Never heard of it having to get shut down because someone just plain stopped.
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2009, 03:10:19 PM »

It's not as common as people wrecking in the tunnel or anything, but it has happened before.

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2009, 06:33:30 PM »

why don't they put the overheight warning before the last exit before the tunnel?
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2009, 07:26:27 PM »

I rarely ever see an overheight truck that makes it past the inspection station. And they do post signs pretty far back. Though it does happen sometimes I guess...

rawr apples

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2009, 02:09:11 AM »

does the MMBT have these same kind of problems?
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: The Hampton Roads Third Crossing Project
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2009, 11:50:45 AM »

From what I recall of VDOT statistics, it happens several hundred times a year (at least twice a day) on average.  As I mentioned before, it's the single biggest cause of traffic stoppage at the HRBT.


Hmmm... I guess I've just missed every single example of that happening.

And if froggie's statistics are correct, rawr, then it should too.

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3rd Crossing
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2011, 10:25:50 AM »

The saga continues.........

Highly doubt anything EVER happening.

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/11/leaders-divert-us-460-dollars-patriots-crossing
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Re: 3rd Crossing
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2011, 11:57:58 AM »

I feel like maybe those "Leaders" neglected to consider the fact that diverting traffic from I-64 to a new US 460 would take at least a reasonable level of traffic out of the two existing crossings in the first place...

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Re: 3rd Crossing
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2011, 02:11:28 PM »

Have to agree, a new 460 is a better idea.
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Re: 3rd Crossing
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2011, 02:13:17 PM »

Upgrading US 460 is a much better idea than the Third Crossing, and would probably eliminate the need for it. US 460 is already an ideal truck corridor to South Hampton Roads.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 02:16:58 PM by WillWeaverRVA »
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Re: 3rd Crossing
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2011, 06:33:47 PM »

I doubt it would eliminate the need for it, but it would certainly reduce it.

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Re: 3rd Crossing
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2011, 07:33:30 PM »

The federal government should provide at least 50% of the funding in special funding above normal FHWA funding formulas.

Why?  Because of the massive military presence in the area that greatly increases road traffic, and the U.S. Navy's insistence that only a tunnel can be built under the shipping channels on Hampton Roads and the Elizabeth River, which makes a facility's construction cost about double the cost of a high-level bridge.

I am aware that there have been new bridge proposals recently, but I don't believe that the Navy will ever agree to it.
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