Interstate 11

[vdeane]

If I'm reading things right, I-11 is planned to end at MX 15D rather than just shy of downtown Nogales like I-19 does.  That would create the first true freeway-freeway connection between the US and Mexico that is open to cars (I-69W is trucks only, I believe, and the rest are breezewoods at best).  Don't get why it needs to be I-11 rather than a re-routed I-19 though.

Here is what MX 15 just south of the 15D/15 split in Nogales looks like on GSV. https://www.google.com/maps/@31.2209366,-110.9722848,3a,66.8y,213.2h,87.56t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sz3RtUTgWeUwjKnsKO3J88w!2e0

In short Mexico 15 is definitely not a freeway south of Nogales. It is a 4 lane highway with at grades. The toll road they built on the west side of Nogales was meant to be a bypass around the downtown Nogales POE.

Can't believe I forgot to reply to this...

While MX 15 isn't a freeway, I would count MX 15D as one, even if it doesn't really have much in the way of interchanges.  Does Mexico have plans to connect all the MX 15D segments into one road some day?

[jakeroot]

Granted, my standards are high enough that I-5/BC 95, I-87/A-15, I-91/A-55, and I-95/NB 95 don't count either on the Canadian border.

Not sure why I-5/BC 99 wouldn't count.  The duty-free shop on the BC side?

The Beach Road intersection ("exit 1") just north of the shop.

I guess.  Southbound it's usually backed up way past there, so traffic is at a crawl anyway.  And northbound traffic couldn't accelerate to freeway speeds again that quickly after stopping.  But, yes, it's technically an at-grade crossing.

I'd still classify it as freeway-to-freeway. The intersection there has to exist. There's no reasonable way for them to remove it. And considering that the intersection does not require the through-traffic to stop, it's still free-flowing (although, as you indicate kkt, it's usually at a stand-still anyways).

I think we've adapted the term freeway too loosely here. It should be "free-flowing to free-flowing" border crossings.

[noelbotevera]

what is going on here

[NE2]

what is going on here

Ask me when you're older.

[vdeane]

Granted, my standards are high enough that I-5/BC 95, I-87/A-15, I-91/A-55, and I-95/NB 95 don't count either on the Canadian border.

Not sure why I-5/BC 99 wouldn't count.  The duty-free shop on the BC side?

The Beach Road intersection ("exit 1") just north of the shop.

I guess.  Southbound it's usually backed up way past there, so traffic is at a crawl anyway.  And northbound traffic couldn't accelerate to freeway speeds again that quickly after stopping.  But, yes, it's technically an at-grade crossing.

I'd still classify it as freeway-to-freeway. The intersection there has to exist. There's no reasonable way for them to remove it. And considering that the intersection does not require the through-traffic to stop, it's still free-flowing (although, as you indicate kkt, it's usually at a stand-still anyways).

I think we've adapted the term freeway too loosely here. It should be "free-flowing to free-flowing" border crossings.

What if they opened the ped path to the other streets to cars and then cut the intersection off?

[jakeroot]

Granted, my standards are high enough that I-5/BC 95, I-87/A-15, I-91/A-55, and I-95/NB 95 don't count either on the Canadian border.

Not sure why I-5/BC 99 wouldn't count.  The duty-free shop on the BC side?

The Beach Road intersection ("exit 1") just north of the shop.

I guess.  Southbound it's usually backed up way past there, so traffic is at a crawl anyway.  And northbound traffic couldn't accelerate to freeway speeds again that quickly after stopping.  But, yes, it's technically an at-grade crossing.

I'd still classify it as freeway-to-freeway. The intersection there has to exist. There's no reasonable way for them to remove it. And considering that the intersection does not require the through-traffic to stop, it's still free-flowing (although, as you indicate kkt, it's usually at a stand-still anyways).

I think we've adapted the term freeway too loosely here. It should be "free-flowing to free-flowing" border crossings.

What if they opened the ped path to the other streets to cars and then cut the intersection off?

They could make it a RIRO. Cars going north-99 to west-Beach Road could make a u-turn at the 8 Ave roundabouts, and cars going east-Beach Road to north-99 could make a u-turn through the parking lot. But then again, what's the point? There's still some awkward movements all the way across the border, and even if you removed this crossing, it still wouldn't feel much like a freeway. Look at the curves that WSDOT built on the US side to slow down cars, the speed bumps and crosswalks across the freeway to get people to the Peace Arch, and all the one- and two-lane roads that meet the freeway with stop signs, in between the carriageways. Even with a RIRO, this stretch would still feel like a three-lane suburban road at best.

[US 41]

Does Mexico have plans to connect all the MX 15D segments into one road some day?

I highly doubt it. MX 15 between Santa Ana and Hermosillo is already a toll road even though it has at grades. The toll is easy to avoid if you take SON 71 before getting to Hermosillo. Something very important to remember though is that everything east of MX 15 (SON 71 is east of 15) is not in the Sonora Free Zone. I imagine that there is a pretty good chance that Mexico will build tolled bypasses around Imuris, Santa Ana, and Hermosillo eventually, similar to the ones that bypass Guaymas and Magdalena.

[RaulMtz]

Does Mexico have plans to connect all the MX 15D segments into one road some day?

I highly doubt it. MX 15 between Santa Ana and Hermosillo is already a toll road even though it has at grades. The toll is easy to avoid if you take SON 71 before getting to Hermosillo. Something very important to remember though is that everything east of MX 15 (SON 71 is east of 15) is not in the Sonora Free Zone. I imagine that there is a pretty good chance that Mexico will build tolled bypasses around Imuris, Santa Ana, and Hermosillo eventually, similar to the ones that bypass Guaymas and Magdalena.

The Hermosillo and Ciudad Obregón bypasses are already planned as their tenders were already done early this year. Don't know when they'll start building them but it should be very soon. I couldn't find anything for Imuris or Santa Ana. I doubt Imuris will be considered any time soon because there are no traffic lights or stops in the area (it's all free flow iirc) but I'm suprised a Santa Ana bypass hasn't been considered.

I'd still classify it as freeway-to-freeway. The intersection there has to exist. There's no reasonable way for them to remove it. And considering that the intersection does not require the through-traffic to stop, it's still free-flowing (although, as you indicate kkt, it's usually at a stand-still anyways).

I think we've adapted the term freeway too loosely here. It should be "free-flowing to free-flowing" border crossings.

I agree with this. All interstates are freeways but not all freeways are interstates. Last time I checked, a freeway was any controlled access divided highway, so using this definition, MX-15D is a freeway south of the border crossing. The Tijuana crossing seems to have a freeway too, though with low standards of course.

[noelbotevera]

I keep making unintentional references, do I (yes my comment upthread was unintentional, sorry NE2)? In a vain attempt to get this back on topic, is there any work on US 93? Also, what about Phoenix's portion of I-11? Hasn't that started construction (I believe it's supposed to finish next year, but I might be wrong)?

[pumpkineater2]

is there any work on US 93? Also, what about Phoenix's portion of I-11? Hasn't that started construction (I believe it's supposed to finish next year, but I might be wrong)?

There is currently no alignment chosen or funding identified. I believe ADOT recently started a three year study, at the end of which a preferred corridor alignment will be chosen.
I am very doubtful that I-11 will get very close to phoenix at this point, considering that there is so much talk about it using the proposed hassyampa freeway, which is considerably west of phoenix.

I really hate that they're planning to build it south of I-8 at all. Phoenix- Las vegas is the only necessary route; this Nogales-Reno idea is complete BS for now. It just seems so redundant to build it to Nogales, because I-10 And I-19 are perfectly adequate for Mexico bound traffic
IMO, the ideal route for I -11 Is to have it routed down Loop 303, and then have it continue down to a terminus at I-8. I think the way it's being described, being parallel to I-10 and I-19, will just look absolutely hideous on a map.

[N9JIG]

There are "Future I-11 Corridor" signs on US-93 north of Wickenburg as well as north of Kingman. There are continuing projects to upgrade portions of US-93 to 4-lanes north of Wickenburg, near the I-11 signs.

North of Kingman the existing roadway could be used as part of the new I-11 but south of I-40 it might be tough. From what I could tell the new I-11 would run around the west side of Wickenburg, then south pretty much parallel to the existing Vulture Mine Road.

I just today drove US-95 south from Boulder City to Blythe and thought that they could to run I-11 south along US-95 to I-40, then follow I-40 east into Arizona, splitting off near MP-13 and head east to Wickieup to join US-93 they might save a boatload of work and money. US-95 in Nevada is already 4-lanes and divided much of the way, only a few overpasses and updates would be needed.

[roadfro]

I just today drove US-95 south from Boulder City to Blythe and thought that they could to run I-11 south along US-95 to I-40, then follow I-40 east into Arizona, splitting off near MP-13 and head east to Wickieup to join US-93 they might save a boatload of work and money. US-95 in Nevada is already 4-lanes and divided much of the way, only a few overpasses and updates would be needed.

Except that is extra mileage out of the way to get to Phoenix from Las Vegas. Note also that the 4-lane section only really goes to NV 163... That routing would put a burden on California to widen US 95 for I-11 traffic that doesn't really benefit California.

Side note: I'm not even sure that that stretch of US 95 would have been 4-laned when it was, had it not been for the Hoover Dam truck detour put in place after 9/11. NDOT likely would have gotten to it eventually, but those widening projects were fast tracked with the traffic increase that arose from the long term detour.

[N9JIG]

Well, the stretch between NV-163 and the CA Line is less than a mile and the extra mileage by routing to Needles would be fairly minimal. The construction in CA would only 20 miles or so, so it might be cheaper for NV and AZ to pay for CA's share.

Another alternative would be to run it east to Laughlin/BHC then to Kingman, thus avoiding CA. Of course in reality the route has already been chose to follow US-93 so the discussion is just that...

[myosh_tino]

Well, the stretch between NV-163 and the CA Line is less than a mile and the extra mileage by routing to Needles would be fairly minimal. The construction in CA would only 20 miles or so, so it might be cheaper for NV and AZ to pay for CA's share.

Another strike against this idea is California's policy against route number duplication.  If I-11 were to follow US 95 into California, it would force the renumbering of CA-11 east of San Diego.

[english si]

Clearly CA has a work around, as they have no problem signing business routes or historic US 40 and 80 (OK, the latter aren't official routes).

They could call it route 999, and sign it I-11.

[kkt]

Clearly CA has a work around, as they have no problem signing business routes or historic US 40 and 80 (OK, the latter aren't official routes).

They could call it route 999, and sign it I-11.

California signs some business and historic routes, but I don't think they ever sign the same number on two unrelated routes.  And it's good that they don't.

Besides, US 95 to I-40 to US 93 would be a silly route from Las Vegas to Phoenix/Nogales.  The additional cost of completely new ROW and construction from I-40 to Wikieup would eat up the savings of using existing 4-lane divided ROW along US 95.

[vdeane]

They could also renumber CA 11 as an extension of CA 905 and renumber the rest of CA 905 as an extension of CA 125.  But why would one route I-11 though Needles?  The Nevada portion south of Vegas is already built or under construction, and US 93 in Arizona from I-40 to the NV line is already four lane divided up there.

[english si]

California signs some business and historic routes, but I don't think they ever sign the same number on two unrelated routes.

I-80 and Historic US80? I-40 and Historic US40?

[N9JIG]

Besides, US 95 to I-40 to US 93 would be a silly route from Las Vegas to Phoenix/Nogales.  The additional cost of completely new ROW and construction from I-40 to Wikieup would eat up the savings of using existing 4-lane divided ROW along US 95.

You are probably right, plus I am sure there are terrain issues as well. It just seems to be weird that the wonderful US-95 facility in Nevada changes to such a hill and dale cowpath in California. I don't suppose the traffic counts come anywhere near what is needed to upgrade it but it is certainly a different ballgame once you enter California!

[mapman1071]

ADOT launches Interstate 11 environmental study from Nogales to Wickenburg

Input from public, communities, others key to selecting a corridor alternative



PHOENIX — The next phase of defining an Interstate 11 corridor through Arizona offers the public a chance to help shape the vision for a route intended to enhance trade and boost Arizona's economy.



In partnership with the Federal Highway Administration and regional planning agencies, the Arizona Department of Transportation has launched a three-year environmental study to select an I-11 corridor alternative between Nogales and Wickenburg.



Extending from Nogales through the Las Vegas area to northern Nevada — and possibly north toward Canada ­— Interstate 11 would support large-scale manufacturing, enhance movement of people and freight by vehicle and potentially rail, and be a corridor for trade, communications and technology.



A three-year environmental study will consider possible routes between Nogales and Wickenburg. The first step is developing an Alternatives Selection Report assessing a wide range of corridor alternatives and options, along with opportunities and constraints. A Draft Tier 1 Environmental Impact Statement will evaluate in greater detail a smaller number of corridor alternatives, including segments that may advance as independent projects. There will be a no-build alterative as well.



Input from the public, communities and other stakeholders will contribute to these two reports, as well as a Final Tier 1 Environmental Impact Statement that will list a selected corridor alternative.



"The Arizona Department of Transportation and our partner agencies and stakeholders have long recognized the importance of the Interstate 11 corridor and the benefits that it will bring to our state through trade, commerce, job growth and economic vitality,"  ADOT Director John Halikowski said. "This congressionally designated high-priority corridor offers the opportunity for Arizona to stay competitive, create regional and global connections, and provide a direct link to success in the global marketplace."



In November 2014, the Arizona and Nevada departments of transportation completed a two-year feasibility study as the first step in the Interstate 11 process. ADOT focused on and supported a route through Arizona connecting Nogales and the Hoover Dam bypass bridge near Las Vegas.



In December 2015, Congress approved the Fixing America's Surface Transportation Act, five-year legislation to improve the nation's surface transportation infrastructure. While the FAST Act formally designates Interstate 11 from north to south in Arizona, it does not include funding. It does, however, make the corridor eligible for federal funding in the future.



The recommended I-11 corridor would likely follow US 93 from the Hoover Dam bypass bridge south to Wickenburg. The 280-mile corridor study area for the current environmental study begins in Wickenburg and runs west of the Phoenix metropolitan area and then south to the Tucson area and then Nogales.



During the next three years, the public, communities and other stakeholders will have opportunities to comment through regular meetings, community events and other forums. Right now, comments can be sent to:



    Email: I-11ADOTStudy@hdrinc.com
    Toll-free bilingual telephone hotline: 1-844-544-8049
    Mail:

Interstate 11 Tier 1 EIS Study Team

c/o ADOT Communications

1655 W. Jackson St., Mail Drop 126F

Phoenix, AZ 85007



For more information about the I-11 study, visit i11study.com/Arizona

[The Ghostbuster]

Will this new stretch of proposed Interstate 11 actually enter Mexico? Interstate 19 doesn't.

[NE2]

Will this new stretch of proposed Interstate 11 actually enter Mexico? Interstate 19 doesn't.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm always amused that all these documents that come out say I-11 is going to the border in Nogalas when I-19 is already there.  From what I recall there was talk of a western bypass of Tucson that would hook back up with I-10 or terminate at I-19.  That said isn't I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson (excluding the 4 lanes in the Gila Reservation) more than enough between these two cities?  What is west of Tucson?....nothing really, just Three Points and an area that doesn't really need an Interstate.  Even up around Phoenix the original plans called for I-11 to be routed west of the White Tanks probably due to the influence of Buckeye promising annexed land for use.  the logical travel corridor and most cost effective travel corridor in the Phoenix area would be to follow US 60 out of Wickenburg down to the Loop 303 south and then onto I-10.  Even a short multiplex of I-10 and gradual up grade of AZ 85 to I-8 would make infinite more sense than trying to bring I-11 to Tucson or the border down in that direction.

[english si]

Will this new stretch of proposed Interstate 11 actually enter Mexico? Interstate 19 doesn't.

I think Ghostbuster meant to say "Will this new stretch of proposed Interstate 11 actually reach the border itself? Interstate 19 doesn't."

'I-11' will do the same (they probably won't renumber I-19 anyway) - the reason why the study ends at Nogales is because the corridor will go there (and because they aren't sure where a Tuscon bypass would meet I-19), not because they seek to build anything there.

[kdk]

I'm always amused that all these documents that come out say I-11 is going to the border in Nogalas when I-19 is already there.  From what I recall there was talk of a western bypass of Tucson that would hook back up with I-10 or terminate at I-19.  That said isn't I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson (excluding the 4 lanes in the Gila Reservation) more than enough between these two cities?  What is west of Tucson?....nothing really, just Three Points and an area that doesn't really need an Interstate.  Even up around Phoenix the original plans called for I-11 to be routed west of the White Tanks probably due to the influence of Buckeye promising annexed land for use.  the logical travel corridor and most cost effective travel corridor in the Phoenix area would be to follow US 60 out of Wickenburg down to the Loop 303 south and then onto I-10.  Even a short multiplex of I-10 and gradual up grade of AZ 85 to I-8 would make infinite more sense than trying to bring I-11 to Tucson or the border down in that direction.

I think the route down 303 could work nicely for now, it actually would shorten the distance as it's a more direct route between Phoenix and Las Vegas, and it's the route I now use to get to Nevada.  303 also has long term plans to reach south to link into I-8 and to serve the City of Maricopa.  However, I think the I-11 plan is thinking more long-term for the planned growth in Arizona.  Pre-I-11 plans there were plans for an outer Loop 404 that follows the same line as I-11 west of the White Tanks, with the idea that 303 will become an urban area in the future and will create the need for an outer ring.  The planned growth between Phoenix and Tucson also would make I-10 between the two cities a fairly urban freeway with the exception of the reservation areas.  A need for somewhat of a bypass has been also planned, which I-11 handles- so for California to Texas and eastward traffic, the idea is a big "Phoenix-Tucson Metro" would need a way to route traffic outside of it.