Poor Sign Placement

[roadman65]

Remember we live in a society that cannot tell the difference between a protected left turn and the partially protected left turn that they had to invent the flashing left turn arrow.

Heck look at the EXIT ONLY warning on overhead exit guides and the total idiot proof dotted lines when a lane drops on a freeway for exit.  Still you get drivers who cut back in as they are surprised to see their lane exit at the last moment.  Truckers on I-287  in NJ are the worst as they should know the roads best, but at NJ 27 SB Exit 2B, they always cut over as many act like they have no idea the road narrows from 4 to 3 lanes with Exit 2B taking away one of the lanes.

You cannot make the roads safe enough no matter what you do.

[jakeroot]

Remember we live in a society that cannot tell the difference between a protected left turn and the partially protected left turn that they had to invent the flashing left turn arrow.

Heck look at the EXIT ONLY warning on overhead exit guides and the total idiot proof dotted lines when a lane drops on a freeway for exit.  Still you get drivers who cut back in as they are surprised to see their lane exit at the last moment.  Truckers on I-287  in NJ are the worst as they should know the roads best, but at NJ 27 SB Exit 2B, they always cut over as many act like they have no idea the road narrows from 4 to 3 lanes with Exit 2B taking away one of the lanes.

You cannot make the roads safe enough no matter what you do.

Well, we could start by making the DOL driving test longer than 10 minutes.

[riiga]

Well, we could start by making the DOL driving test longer than 10 minutes.

Driving tests in the US are only 10 minutes? 

My test of 45 minutes included city driving, rural roads, motorway driving and reversing into a parking space between two cars, as well as inspecting some part of the car before driving (I got to check lights and brakes). And in addition to that, a theory exam (multiple-choice) where you need to get about 75-80 % right (out of 65 questions). They're very strict on passing the tests too, especially the actual driving where not stopping at a stop sign is an instant fail.

[jeffandnicole]

Well, we could start by making the DOL driving test longer than 10 minutes.

Driving tests in the US are only 10 minutes? 

My test of 45 minutes included city driving, rural roads, motorway driving and reversing into a parking space between two cars, as well as inspecting some part of the car before driving (I got to check lights and brakes). And in addition to that, a theory exam (multiple-choice) where you need to get about 75-80 % right (out of 65 questions). They're very strict on passing the tests too, especially the actual driving where not stopping at a stop sign is an instant fail.

NJ's test:

50 questions; 80% or better is passing.  A number of questions focus on DUI laws and effects.  Failing to answer a Stop Sign question is no better or worse than failing to answer any other question on the test.

My test, many years ago, went like this: Make sure you are buckled in before turning on the car.  Parallel park.  Turn right onto 2 lane road - speed limit 40 mph.  I still remember the instructor saying the speed limit for the test is 35 mph.  Whatever.  I did 35 mph for about 1/2 mile.  Turn left onto side street.  Go down, make K-Turn.  Come back to stop sign.  Make sure you stop at stop sign.  Then inch forward to actually see into the intersection.  Turn right back onto 40 mph road with driving test speed limit of 35 mph.  Turn left back into DMV. 

Passed.

[SectorZ]

NJ's test:

50 questions; 80% or better is passing.  A number of questions focus on DUI laws and effects.  Failing to answer a Stop Sign question is no better or worse than failing to answer any other question on the test.

My test, many years ago, went like this: Make sure you are buckled in before turning on the car.  Parallel park.  Turn right onto 2 lane road - speed limit 40 mph.  I still remember the instructor saying the speed limit for the test is 35 mph.  Whatever.  I did 35 mph for about 1/2 mile.  Turn left onto side street.  Go down, make K-Turn.  Come back to stop sign.  Make sure you stop at stop sign.  Then inch forward to actually see into the intersection.  Turn right back onto 40 mph road with driving test speed limit of 35 mph.  Turn left back into DMV. 

Passed.

1994, the now defunct Reading MA RMV, my test was the exact same as yours aside from the RMV being on the opposite side of the road. I thought it was so lazy, but (at the time) the state police did the tests, and they really didn't want to be bothered doing them.

[bzakharin]

2014, also NJ. You have to find the easiest place to take the test. Since they won't let you out on any sort of limited access highway, a facility wedged between US-46 and I-80 is super easy traffic-wise since all the driving is done within the facility's grounds, on a course used only for driving tests (never mind that I was actually behind the wheel getting there and back, including I-80 and US-46). Speed limit 25 and a bunch of stop signs. Of course, you still have to make a k-turn and parallel park.

[1995hoo]

Well, we could start by making the DOL driving test longer than 10 minutes.

Driving tests in the US are only 10 minutes? 

My test of 45 minutes included city driving, rural roads, motorway driving and reversing into a parking space between two cars, as well as inspecting some part of the car before driving (I got to check lights and brakes). And in addition to that, a theory exam (multiple-choice) where you need to get about 75-80 % right (out of 65 questions). They're very strict on passing the tests too, especially the actual driving where not stopping at a stop sign is an instant fail.

NJ's test:

50 questions; 80% or better is passing.  A number of questions focus on DUI laws and effects.  Failing to answer a Stop Sign question is no better or worse than failing to answer any other question on the test.

My test, many years ago, went like this: Make sure you are buckled in before turning on the car.  Parallel park.  Turn right onto 2 lane road - speed limit 40 mph.  I still remember the instructor saying the speed limit for the test is 35 mph.  Whatever.  I did 35 mph for about 1/2 mile.  Turn left onto side street.  Go down, make K-Turn.  Come back to stop sign.  Make sure you stop at stop sign.  Then inch forward to actually see into the intersection.  Turn right back onto 40 mph road with driving test speed limit of 35 mph.  Turn left back into DMV. 

Passed.

Heh. Your test sounds more difficult than mine because Virginia did not require parallel parking–I believe they still don't, based on my observation of the number of people who have absolutely no clue how even to attempt such maneuver.

My road test consisted of about a one-mile drive through a trailer park behind the DMV. Speed limit there was 15 mph and it had a bunch of stop signs. I think they were just looking to see if you would speed or pull a rolling stop. I drove my mother's Volvo and shifted the automatic shift down to first gear to prevent myself from speeding.

The "knowledge test" was conducted four months earlier when I applied for my learner's permit. It was on paper back then, a 25-question multiple-guess exam. I think you were allowed to miss no more than five questions. I had to retake the knowledge test in 2003 due to two moving violations in a five-year period. By then, it was still multiple-guess but was done on a computer terminal and the computer stopped the test once you had enough correct answers such that you could no longer fail.

[vdeane]

In NY, the driving test is basically a drive around the block on residential streets with 25/30 mph speed limits.  The test includes a K turn and "parallel parking" (parking behind a car on the street, but they do it in an area where the next car is a ways back such that you don't need to worry about it).  Failure to come to a complete stop is an automatic fail.  One thing they like to do is start the test right on top of a stop sign and do an immediate turn right to see if people would bother to actually merge back into traffic or not.

The written test is 20 questions long and not at all difficult.  When I took it, I remember one of the questions even contained the answer to a previous question.

We could probably improve roadway safety a lot by adopting European licencing standards.  Our tests are so simple that anyone could pass with very little studying/practice (especially now that backup cameras exist, taking away the one last difficult part of the test - parallel parking).  It would also be good to shift the testing priority from having perfect form to being a safe and non-annoying driver.

[kphoger]

I've never taken a road test. The nearest DMV to where I grew up honored my school's driver's ed program. Turned in my driver's ed certificate, passed the written exam (by one question), got my learner's permit, age 14. I lived in a county of fewer than 4000 people. "City driving" involved driving an hour to another state, to a town of 8000. Expressway driving was a half-hour in the other direction, for a short stretch of I-70 in western Kansas.

We had exchange students from European countries take the driver's ed class, get an American license, then trade it in for a national one upon returning home.

[1995hoo]

When y'all say "K turn," do you mean what is also known as a "three-point turn" or (this is more European) "turning in the road"?

[Big John]

When y'all say "K turn," do you mean what is also known as a "three-point turn" or (this is more European) "turning in the road"?

A 3-point turn.  And depends on the area as Wisconsin officially calls it a Y turn.

[jakeroot]

When y'all say "K turn," do you mean what is also known as a "three-point turn" or (this is more European) "turning in the road"?

A 3-point turn.  And depends on the area as Wisconsin officially calls it a Y turn.

I was gonna ask the same question. I've never heard the term "K-turn". "Three-point turn" is the only term I ever learned.

[1995hoo]

I had never heard "K turn" either but the meaning seemed obvious from the context. I just wanted to confirm I was assuming correctly.

[Pete from Boston]

2014, also NJ. You have to find the easiest place to take the test. Since they won't let you out on any sort of limited access highway, a facility wedged between US-46 and I-80 is super easy traffic-wise since all the driving is done within the facility's grounds, on a course used only for driving tests (never mind that I was actually behind the wheel getting there and back, including I-80 and US-46). Speed limit 25 and a bunch of stop signs. Of course, you still have to make a k-turn and parallel park.

Lodi?

When "The Sopranos" was on, I took great pleasure in telling folks I got my driver's license behind the Bada Bing.

[national highway 1]

http://goo.gl/maps/G2wHV

[SignGeek101]

Kind of problematic if you can't see the which arrows are pointing where:

http://goo.gl/maps/bKM5H

[AsphaltPlanet]

^ It's crazy to me that that section of Autoroute 35 is already on streetview.  Google is pretty on top of things these days.

[jakeroot]

^ It's crazy to me that that section of Autoroute 35 is already on streetview.  Google is pretty on top of things these days.

Well, maybe. But Quebec (along with most of Canada) was recently due for an update, and of course we got it. The A35 is on there only because it was open in time for Google's arrival.

[kphoger]

Sidewalks are just for decoration anyway, right?

[vtk]

Looks to me like an average person could walk under that.  Tall people may have to duck.

[1995hoo]

Looks to me like an average person could walk under that.  Tall people may have to duck.

If the sign is high enough to walk under, then I don't think it's a problem. This one near where I live never struck me as poor sign placement despite being over a sidewalk:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.76809,-77.124833,3a,75y,156.58h,80.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sndaQLQOa0Ii-NF12zUxwKA!2e0

The one kphoger posted looks to my eye–based primarily on the truck seen to the left of the sign–to be rather low to the ground, especially if it is indeed lopsided (rather than that being distortion from a wide-angle lens). Given that not all the poles appear distorted, I assume the sign is indeed crooked.

[hbelkins]

I remember one of the old cutout assemblies in Bristol being erected over the sidewalk.

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/@44.837471,-69.287525,3a,75y,125.31h,86.05t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZ2ka5LCtnlU7t6UBtRkq5A!2e0
This here is in Newport, ME on EB US 2.  A directional guide for I-95 as this is the first intersection where US 2 EB begins its journey into the I-95 corridor eastward to Houlton, ME.  Before this intersection US 2 is independent of I-95 from its split from I-89 at Montpelier, VT.  However this is via SB ME 11 which is not signed here at all.

ME 11 is signed where it meets US 2 proper another 1000 feet beyond this cut off street. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.837206,-69.285977,3a,75y,125.31h,86.05t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szlhaccaISkqBc5GD7OiA5A!2e0

I thought this is kind of weird because if I-95 via SB ME 11 is worthy to be signed here then it should also be signed for ME 11 SB here for those heading straight through on ME 11 SB as well.    Considering that ME 11 and US 2 intersect at a shallow angle, it would be better to have the directional signs for ME 11 SB here anyway as to turn south is a 4:30 turn at the intersection ahead of this. 

[JMoses24]

Speaking of signs that are placed over sidewalks... this one is on KY 8 eastbound as you approach the ramp to I-471 northbound in Newport, KY. That says "(up arrow) Dayton". It's even doubly poorly placed due to the trees.

[roadfro]

I wouldn't necessarily consider a sign hanging over a sidewalk as poorly placed (although certainly not ideal), as long as there is adequate headroom between the bottom of the sign and the sidewalk--about 7-8 feet.  That does not appear to be the case here.