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Author Topic: District of Columbia  (Read 218652 times)

1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #600 on: February 04, 2016, 08:08:42 PM »

DC's H Street streetcar is always going to suffer from the H Street portion running in the right-hand lane of traffic instead of the left lane (whereas the eastern part on Benning Road is in the left lane along the median) because it leads to the problem of parallel-parked cars being immediately adjacent to the streetcar lane. During the lengthy "testing" phase they've had constant problems with parked cars not being parked properly and sticking out over the white line into the streetcar's path. I find it hard to imagine how they'll ever be able to manage the sort of INSTANT towing that'll be needed to solve this problem if the line ever actually begins passenger service. You have to tow instantly, not just issue tickets, because the streetcar cannot move around obstacles like a bus can.

To be sure, part of the problem is that many drivers can't parallel park. Delivery truck drivers will learn very quickly, if they haven't already, that they can't double-park along there. People who aren't good parallel parkers but who don't realize they aren't good at it will be a much bigger problem. The obvious answer is that if you aren't good enough at it to park your car completely on the curb side of the white line, as indicated on the signs, then you should not park on H Street, but getting car drivers to understand that will be a whole lot harder than getting delivery drivers to understand their part. From what I've seen driving on there, it's a very small tolerance for error in terms of how you have to park, and unfortunately people are so accustomed to the idea that it's OK to stick out over a line (think stop bars at red lights, which almost everyone ignores around here) that I'm certain it's going to be difficult to get people to realize that THIS white line matters a great deal.




Edited to add an unrelated DC note: An interesting sight you can see right now that may vanish at any time is visible on eastbound I-695 and northbound I-395. As I-395 descends to the right to enter what becomes the Third Street Tunnel, there is an older BGS saying "C St S.W./US Capitol/The House" that was not replaced in the recent round of sign replacements in that area. The sign is an older button-copy sign and, at least as of this past Tuesday night at around 10:40 PM, you could see the button-copy stuff (sorry, I don't know what the term for that is) peeling off from the white letters. Can't say that's something I've gotten to see very often, and it was rather interesting to see it. I don't doubt it helped that it was night and the sign itself has its own illumination. Unfortunately, there is no way I'll ever manage a picture of it since I never drive that way during rush hour when the traffic is slow enough to allow me to get a picture. I only drive that way on my way home from Verizon Center, and since I'm back working downtown we're on the subway more often than we drive.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2016, 08:25:06 PM by 1995hoo »
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Alex

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #601 on: February 04, 2016, 10:37:27 PM »

This one?



It is posted on our I-695 DC guide.

1995hoo

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #602 on: February 04, 2016, 11:18:11 PM »

That's the one. The peeling button copy was rather more obvious than in that photo, though the fact it was night surely made a difference. I can't say I usually pay very close attention to the signs on that road anyway. 99% of the times I use it, I head east to the 11th Street Bridge and then down I-295 to the Beltway and none of the signs matter to me unless there's something new. (Watching the I-695 signs appear was interesting.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #603 on: February 05, 2016, 09:13:29 AM »

Quote
Streetcars and light rail are expensive and inefficient, and shouldn't have a place in 21st century cities.

And you're basing this comment on...?
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #604 on: February 05, 2016, 09:27:52 AM »

Quote
Streetcars and light rail are expensive and inefficient, and shouldn't have a place in 21st century cities.

And you're basing this comment on...?

Trams I've ridden:

Strasbourg: Very good, very popular. Most of the routes through the core of the city are pedestrianized, so there's no vehicle competition for ROW space. Pedestrians are good at not being in the way.

Munich: High degree of separated ROW. Signal controlled. Also very good.

Heidelberg: Don't remember, car was crammed to the gills.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #605 on: February 05, 2016, 01:05:22 PM »

Quote
Streetcars and light rail are expensive and inefficient, and shouldn't have a place in 21st century cities.

And you're basing this comment on...?

I did not make the comment above, but I am decidedly cool toward new electric street railway projects for several reasons (even though I love to ride them in any city that has them):

(1) Extremely expensive to construct;
(2) Limited capacity (the streetcar service along the H Street/Benning Road corridor was converted to bus in 1947, not because of any order from the idiots on Capitol Hill, and not because of a supposed General Motors conspiracy, but because the streetcars could not serve the demand, and  buses did and could - the X2, X3 and X9 are some of the busiest bus routes run by WMATA even today);
(3) Inflexible, in that they only run where there is expensive track and expensive overhead wire, and if a car breaks down, the entire line comes to a stop;
(4) No faster than a bus (and in some cases slower), unless the streetcars are on dedicated right-of-way with signals set to give at least some priority to the streetcars.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #606 on: February 06, 2016, 01:19:29 PM »

I concur with cpzilliacus.
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Rothman

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #607 on: February 08, 2016, 09:06:38 AM »

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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #608 on: February 08, 2016, 03:49:47 PM »

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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #609 on: February 08, 2016, 04:19:30 PM »

WTOP Radio: Poll finds opposition to Vision Zero’s new fines, offenses

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...a new poll from AAA shows...

AAA poll validates AAA talking points. Who woulda thunk it?
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froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #610 on: February 08, 2016, 04:24:34 PM »

Quote
WTOP Radio: Poll finds opposition to Vision Zero’s effectiveness

FTFY.

Regarding the earlier convo, you and I have gone back and forth on this numerous times.  I doubt we'll ever change each other's opinions on it, but I do have to address your comments.

#1:  it's in a city, where infrastructure is expensive to begin with.  We just spent $400 million on the 11th St Bridge.  Heck, just replacing the overpass on 16th St NW at Military Rd is running 8 digits.

#2 may have been the case back in the '50s, but not so anymore.  It's well documented that modern streetcars and especially LRT trains have a higher passenger capacity than buses.  To get that same level of capacity from buses requires running enough buses that the operating costs actually exceed that of the streetcar.

You see #3 as a flaw.  And in relation to #4, perhaps it is.  But developers and residents tend to see it differently:  as permanence.  Hard to have "rail creep" in planning/executing a rail transit project the way it often happens with "BRT creep".

#4 may or may not be true, depending on how many stops the transit line has.  As a general rule, streetcars tend to be faster than buses (parked cars in the way notwithstanding) because they generally make fewer stops than the bus does.  The only way the bus could counter this would be to cut the number of stops it makes, or having more limited-stop service (like the S9 or X9).  But local residents and even businesses tend to not like having "their stop" cut, even if it makes operational sense to do so.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #611 on: February 08, 2016, 06:24:37 PM »

Quote
WTOP Radio: Poll finds opposition to Vision Zero’s effectiveness

FTFY.

Regarding the earlier convo, you and I have gone back and forth on this numerous times.  I doubt we'll ever change each other's opinions on it, but I do have to address your comments.

#1:  it's in a city, where infrastructure is expensive to begin with.  We just spent $400 million on the 11th St Bridge.  Heck, just replacing the overpass on 16th St NW at Military Rd is running 8 digits.

#2 may have been the case back in the '50s, but not so anymore.  It's well documented that modern streetcars and especially LRT trains have a higher passenger capacity than buses.  To get that same level of capacity from buses requires running enough buses that the operating costs actually exceed that of the streetcar.

The PCC cars that dominated in Washington for the last several decades of streetcar operation were slightly shorter than those of most other cities because of constraints on parking them in the barns.  But the cars that DDOT has purchased for H Street/Benning Road have more capacity because they are longer articulated units, not because of any particular improvement in the technology.

Those rebuilt or improved structures for highway traffic have (and will have) traffic volumes (including transit bus patrons) to justify the costs of same.

You see #3 as a flaw.  And in relation to #4, perhaps it is.  But developers and residents tend to see it differently:  as permanence.  Hard to have "rail creep" in planning/executing a rail transit project the way it often happens with "BRT creep".

I see 3 as a flaw when a car on the line breaks down - or if the line is blocked for other reasons, including a crash involving one or more rubber-tire vehicles. 

I reject the inflexibility of rail as some sort of an asset. 

The apartment buildings along the 16th Street, N.W.; Connecticut Avenue, N.W.; Wisconsin Avenue, N.W.; and Massachusetts Avenue, N.W. corridors have thrived for many, many decades, with the only form of transit being the humble transit bus (16th Street never had streetcar service; the line along Connecticut Avenue was converted to bus in the 1930's (and supplanted to a large extent by Metrorail in the 1980's); streetcars on Wisconsin Avenue were converted to bus in the late 1950's; and Massachusetts Avenue had some streetcar service in the early days of electric street railways in D.C., but it was abandoned as far back as the 1920's or 1930's).

BRT is a rather different mode of transport from (most) electric street railway lines.

#4 may or may not be true, depending on how many stops the transit line has.  As a general rule, streetcars tend to be faster than buses (parked cars in the way notwithstanding) because they generally make fewer stops than the bus does.  The only way the bus could counter this would be to cut the number of stops it makes, or having more limited-stop service (like the S9 or X9).  But local residents and even businesses tend to not like having "their stop" cut, even if it makes operational sense to do so.

Streetcars can usually accelerate away from a stop faster than a vehicle with an internal-combustion engine, but they generally have to follow the same posted speed limits as nearby rubber-tire traffic.

In D.C. most of the electric street railway system was also impacted by recurring (and sometimes severe) traffic congestion (notable exceptions being parts of the 10 and 12  (east of the Anacostia River) to Benning and Seat Pleasant respectively,  the 20 line to Glen Echo, west of Georgetown University; the 82 to from Mount Rainier to Branchville in College Park; and the 30 along Pennsylvania Avenue, S.E. from Second Street to Barney Circle and along much of Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.from the U.S. Capitol complex to the White House and beyond to the narrow streets of Georgetown).
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 09:43:38 PM by cpzilliacus »
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #612 on: February 16, 2016, 11:20:18 PM »

Washington Post: Meet the District’s ‘most productive’ traffic officer

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If you drive a taxi in the District, chances are you’ve heard of Officer Thomas Krmenec, king of traffic enforcement in the city’s 5th District in Northeast.

Quote
Nothing escapes Krmenec when it comes to enforcing taxicab regulations — and for that matter, all rules of the road. He is so serious about keeping order on the streets that last year he handed out more than 3,000 tickets, earning him accolades as the “most productive traffic officer in the city.”

Quote
When he’s not inspecting taxicabs, Krmenec, an 11-year D.C. police veteran, is pulling over speeders, arresting drunk drivers and coming to the aid of residents looking for traffic-calming in their neighborhoods. He is a rarity in a city that relies heavily on automated traffic enforcement.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #613 on: February 19, 2016, 10:50:19 PM »

WTOP Radio: Proposed transportation projects could ease traffic in the region

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Significant traffic changes are being considered by local transportation officials looking to ease gridlock in Maryland, D.C. and Virginia.

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Those changes include a tolling plan for Interstate 66, converting I-395 HOV lanes to toll lanes, installing a new HOV lane on Route 28 and adding new bus-only lanes.

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On Wednesday, as part of the proposed changes to the region’s long range plan, the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments’ transportation planning board was briefed on nine major projects that Virginia and D.C. have proposed or want to change.
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Rothman

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #614 on: February 21, 2016, 08:31:15 AM »

Ugh.  Whenever someone talks about using tolling to ease congestion, it makes me want to reach for my revolver.
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froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #615 on: February 21, 2016, 09:55:53 AM »

Why's that?  Congestion pricing has been well demonstrated.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #616 on: February 21, 2016, 04:02:15 PM »

Ugh.  Whenever someone talks about using tolling to ease congestion, it makes me want to reach for my revolver.

Reach for this instead: Intercounty Connector (ICC)/MD 200 Saving Time
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Rothman

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #617 on: February 22, 2016, 08:10:30 AM »

Why's that?  Congestion pricing has been well demonstrated.

It's the real cost of congestion pricing and tolling that irks me.  The relief in congestion that is realized through such measures is due to restricting freedom:  Those that would have traveled on the road when it was not tolled now do not take the trip since they find the increased cost onerous.  So, we're restricting our society's mobility and freedom while claiming a victory in easing congestion ("Yay!  The more affluent can get around easier!").

I'm not totally against tolling, either.  However, my position has always been to either tax me or toll me, but not both (despite the fact we've already tried tolling a lot more than we do now -- see all the very old turnpikes in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic -- which was one of the impetuses for federal funding of roads starting with the National Road).  This hodgepodge system we have where some facilities are tolled and others aren't seems very chaotic and inefficient to me. 

For instance, look at NY, where you have all this redundant manpower split almost arbitrarily between NYSDOT, NYSTA, NYSBA, PANYNJ, MTA, etc., etc.  In reality, the Thruway's just another highway.  Sure, you need some people to handle the tolling aspects of it, but the size of NYSTA in terms of FTEs seems very disproportionate to the actual needs of the facility on its face.  So, tolls are actually supporting an inefficient system of overall management.

I'm rambling and this is the DC thread, so I'll stop here.  My main point is that I accept the cold data that congestion does improve when pricing is implemented, but the cost to the overall mobility and freedom of our society for that benefit concerns me.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #618 on: February 22, 2016, 08:17:06 AM »

Every good has to be rationed by one way or another.

Generally governments ration by queue, that is, waiting for stuff. This is true with roads, lines at the DMV, etc. Everyone is equal and gets a fair shot at the same good.

Private enterprise rations by price typically...the price of a good or service is raised (or lowered) until it hits a market-cleared equilibrium. Those that are able and willing to buy the good/service do so.

Effectively, congestion pricing is, to steal a phrase from politicians "running the government like a business". Whether or not that's a good thing is up to the voters.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #619 on: March 03, 2016, 01:45:43 PM »

Washington Post: Crumbling Memorial Bridge could become a ‘footbridge’ in five years without $250 million in repairs

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The National Park Service said Wednesday that the historic but crumbling Memorial Bridge over the Potomac River may be closed to traffic in five years if it does not get a complete overhaul by then.

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Without repairs, “it’s a footbridge” by 2021, said the Park Service’s director, Jonathan B. Jarvis.

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The Park Service has been warning for years that the bridge has been failing. Traffic weight restrictions have been instituted, while the road surface has been patched up and the support structure shored up.

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But the rate of deterioration has accelerated, and an inspection report last month by the Federal Highway Administration found conditions even more alarming, Jarvis said.

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During a tour of the underside of the bridge Wednesday, Park Service officials pointed out decayed steel supports, corroded rivets, crumbling concrete and ancient, peeling paint.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #620 on: March 03, 2016, 03:08:31 PM »

The bridge should be reconstructed. Is there anyway to include safety and design improvements without interfering with the fact that the bridge is listed on the National Register of Historic Places?
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #621 on: March 03, 2016, 07:25:17 PM »

The bridge should be reconstructed. Is there anyway to include safety and design improvements without interfering with the fact that the bridge is listed on the National Register of Historic Places?

I certainly think so.
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froggie

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #622 on: March 03, 2016, 08:49:18 PM »

There's precedent.  The Mendota Bridge in Minnesota is a concrete arch bridge that has long been on the National Register.  MnDOT completely rebuilt it above the arches about 20 years ago.  While doing the same thing here would be a traffic nightmare during the reconstruction, it's certainly an option that has the above-mentioned precedent.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #623 on: March 03, 2016, 09:51:21 PM »

There's precedent.  The Mendota Bridge in Minnesota is a concrete arch bridge that has long been on the National Register.  MnDOT completely rebuilt it above the arches about 20 years ago.  While doing the same thing here would be a traffic nightmare during the reconstruction, it's certainly an option that has the above-mentioned precedent.

It has been suggested that a total closure of the Arlington Memorial Bridge would speed-up the project and lower the cost while respecting the historic and iconic nature of this crossing. In my personal opinion, that is a good idea, especially if it gets the pain over with more quickly, and has the added bonus of getting the bridge open to bus traffic again (mostly tourist buses, but also some transit). 

My biggest concern with a possible total closure is the amount of non-motorized traffic crossing this bridge - detours via I-395 or I-66 are long (especially for pedestrian traffic), especially for trips between the Lincoln Memorial and Arlington Cemetery. Not clear to me if a total reconstruction can be handled while keeping the bridge open for the bikes and walkers.
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Re: District of Columbia
« Reply #624 on: March 05, 2016, 07:57:18 AM »

There's precedent.  The Mendota Bridge in Minnesota is a concrete arch bridge that has long been on the National Register.  MnDOT completely rebuilt it above the arches about 20 years ago.  While doing the same thing here would be a traffic nightmare during the reconstruction, it's certainly an option that has the above-mentioned precedent.

It has been suggested that a total closure of the Arlington Memorial Bridge would speed-up the project and lower the cost while respecting the historic and iconic nature of this crossing. In my personal opinion, that is a good idea, especially if it gets the pain over with more quickly, and has the added bonus of getting the bridge open to bus traffic again (mostly tourist buses, but also some transit). 

My biggest concern with a possible total closure is the amount of non-motorized traffic crossing this bridge - detours via I-395 or I-66 are long (especially for pedestrian traffic), especially for trips between the Lincoln Memorial and Arlington Cemetery. Not clear to me if a total reconstruction can be handled while keeping the bridge open for the bikes and walkers.

I had no idea the 14th St. Bridge had a pedestrian/bike path.  (on all three spans?)

Does Columbia Island have *any* pedestrian/bike friendly paths?

ixnay
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