Roads that none of us will live to see built

[kphoger]

Interstate 7/9

Have these ever been seriously proposed?

Depends if he's referring to the CA-99 corridor or the US-97 corridor.

I think he meant Interstate 0.777777777777

[kphoger]

My nominee:  Kellogg.  Wink wink, Winkler.

[roadman65]

FL 429 (The Wekiva Parkway).
NJ 55.
I-49
I-73 and I-74
The PA Turnpike and I-95 connection (as they keep postponing the construction.)

[cpzilliacus]

West Virginia currently has the following on the table which I do not believe we will ever see finished:

Corridor H (US 48): The parts not currently under construction will probably never be built.  Treehuggers.

I don't know the details well enough to disagree with you (and you obviously know them very well - and I thank you for sharing them here), but the same was said of Maryland Route 200 not that many years ago (and the population of treehuggers and NIMBYs along its path and in the counties and cities near its path is probably a lot higher (in absolute terms)) than the number of persons opposed to Corridor H.

And Corridor H and Md. 200 had a common enemy in Peter H. Kostmayer, a former member of the U.S. House of Representatives and an implacable foe of any and all new highways.  He put that ideology to work when he was appointed by President Clinton as the Administrator of EPA Region III in Philadelphia, where he instructed his staff that their highest priority was to get as many proposed highways in the Region III states cancelled as possible.

I also wrote the following to H.B. Elkins in a previous version of this forum:

Kostmayer also did his best to kill Maryland's InterCounty Connector project.  At the time, Maryland DOT was in the early stages of preparing a draft environmental impact statement (which was destined to be spiked by then-Gov. Parris Glendening in 1999 for political reasons, after spending millions of dollars on that DEIS), and Kostmayer's EPA Region III staff made demands (in about 1993 or 1994) that certain possible alignments for the highway (including the one that had been on the planning maps since the 1950's, and where the completed highway now runs) should be excluded from any consideration, even before alternatives were analyzed.  That's not how the environmental impact statement process, as mandated by the National Environmental Policy Act, is supposed to work.

Supposedly Region III had "serious concerns" about the self-reproducing brown trout population in the Paint Branch of the Anacostia River (never mind that the brown trout are not native to Maryland, but were introduced from Germany many years before - and as an alien species, get no protection under the Clean Water Act and other federal environmental laws).

I also believe (but cannot prove) that Kostmayer held private meetings with opponents of both Corridor H and ICC to work out strategies for getting them cancelled.  In the judicial branch, that's called ex-parte communication and is not allowed.  Because EPA was working in a quasi-judicial role in reviewing environmental documents for both projects, I think it's high time that such meetings (with any advocate, pro- or con-) be held on-the record or forbidden entirely (ideally, advocates for or against a project under EPA review should be required to submit comments in writing and the comments should go on the public record for all interested parties to read).

Kostmayer was forced to resign from EPA in 1995 when his activities against Corridor H incurred the wrath of Senators Rockefeller and Byrd.

[roadfro]

I can actually see I-11 getting built, but I'm going to say it won't in my lifetime.

Oh, I expect I-11 will be completed within the next 20-25 years. Just not as currently proposed. On the Nevada end, I suspect environmental concerns will force NDOT to utilize the current US93 footprint in Boulder City. On the Arizona side, too much of what is proposed for the Phoenix area end is subject to developer plans that likely won't see the light of day before 2030. Therefore, I suspect that some combination of the Sun Valley Parkway and SR85 will be used for I-11.

FHWA accepted the Final EIS and made a record of decision on NDOT's US 93 Boulder City Bypass several years ago. Phase 1 (the extension/realignment up to US 95 turnoff) is in the nearer planning horizon and should go to bid/construction in the next couple years. Phase 2 (the rest of it) is the part that the RTC is conducting a tolling feasibility study for, cause otherwise NDOT won't have the money to build it for many more years. So the Nevada portion of proposed I-11 is not too far fetched.

(I will still maintain that the Boulder City Bypass could have been well on its way to completion by now, had NDOT selected a through-town freeway alignment instead of caving to citizen pressure for the southern alternative... but that's my opinion.)

[Revive 755]

A complete US 12 freeway/tollway between Madison, WI and IL 53?

Mike

I'll second this one, though I think Wisconsin will have to do something with the northern end of the current US 12 freeway north of I-43 since the two lane road after the freeway is rather bad.  It would not surprise me either if Wisconsin 'cheats' on the northern/western termni and somehow requires the connection to Madison to be made via I-39/90 or I-94.

As for the section in Illinois, I really doubt anything will be built beyond the Richmond bypass and maybe the poorly designed IL 53 parkway.

EDIT:  As for other candidates, excluding pre-1970's freeway plan proposals:

* The US 61 Hannibal bypass - due to MoDOT's funding issues and an unwillingness by locals (or some other group besides MoDOT) to start with a two lane facility.

* The IL 3 - IL 149 four lane corridor from the southern IL 3/IL 146 junction to Murphysboro

* The East Beltway for Lincoln, NE, as a freeway - I'm guessing this one either gets replaced by an upgraded arterial system or a somewhat access controlled divided highway.

* Not techinically a road, but I doubt anyone here will live to see the I-90/I-290/IL 53 cloverleaf get any of the loops replaced with turbine ramps or flyovers (barring a fatal crash or two that makes national headlines)

[Beltway]

DC I-95 North Central Freeway and Northeast Freeway

IL I-494 Crosstown Expressway

NY I-78 Lower Manhattan Expressway
NY I-78 Bushwick Expressway

[national highway 1]

Bang. I-366.   

[mgk920]

A complete US 12 freeway/tollway between Madison, WI and IL 53?

Mike

I'll second this one, though I think Wisconsin will have to do something with the northern end of the current US 12 freeway north of I-43 since the two lane road after the freeway is rather bad.  It would not surprise me either if Wisconsin 'cheats' on the northern/western termni and somehow requires the connection to Madison to be made via I-39/90 or I-94.

As for the section in Illinois, I really doubt anything will be built beyond the Richmond bypass and maybe the poorly designed IL 53 parkway.

The original plan for US 12 (I-90?) was for it to connect to I-39/90 just south of Dane County 'B'.  Check aerial images of the area to see exactly where.

Mike

[on_wisconsin]

The US 12 freeway actually stands some chance of being built in the next 60 or so years. By the time that road is getting its first re-surface, the much needed North Beltline in Madison will maybe just be entering the final EIS stage. 

[njroadhorse]

The Somerset Freeway. Never have I hated NIMBYS more

[vtk]

In Columbus: the Morse—Bethel Connector, and maybe the Ackerman—Zollinger Connector.  The latter has potential for a cool nickname, what with connecting A to Z...

Any new freeway or expressway in the Delaware (Ohio) vicinity. Several are needed, a couple have been seriously proposed, and probably none will be built this century.

[mjb2002]

Interstate 1, anywhere.

[Dr Frankenstein]

I-98 for sure.

[Interstate Trav]

I can actually see I-11 getting built, but I'm going to say it won't in my lifetime.

Oh, I expect I-11 will be completed within the next 20-25 years. Just not as currently proposed. On the Nevada end, I suspect environmental concerns will force NDOT to utilize the current US93 footprint in Boulder City. On the Arizona side, too much of what is proposed for the Phoenix area end is subject to developer plans that likely won't see the light of day before 2030. Therefore, I suspect that some combination of the Sun Valley Parkway and SR85 will be used for I-11.

FHWA accepted the Final EIS and made a record of decision on NDOT's US 93 Boulder City Bypass several years ago. Phase 1 (the extension/realignment up to US 95 turnoff) is in the nearer planning horizon and should go to bid/construction in the next couple years. Phase 2 (the rest of it) is the part that the RTC is conducting a tolling feasibility study for, cause otherwise NDOT won't have the money to build it for many more years. So the Nevada portion of proposed I-11 is not too far fetched.

(I will still maintain that the Boulder City Bypass could have been well on its way to completion by now, had NDOT selected a through-town freeway alignment instead of caving to citizen pressure for the southern alternative... but that's my opinion.)

Building the US 93 Bypass through town would probably cost less, and would shorten the length of US 93 wouldn't it?

[cpzilliacus]

 

The Somerset Freeway. Never have I hated NIMBYS more

At least some of the dynamics seem to be the same as the I-95 Center Leg and Northeast Freeway in D.C. and Maryland.  In both cases, there was an "alternate" freeway available that the NIMBYs could point to (the N.J. Turnpike and the Capital Beltway). 

In D.C., the Metrorail system was "advertised" as an alternative, though I what has happened in the decades since the 1970's has proven that incorrect.  I don't know if opponents of the Somerset Freeway ever made claims that it could be "replaced" by  a transit line.

It has never been clear to me how much opposition from the New Jersey Turnpike Authority (if there was any) factored in to the decision to not build the Somerset Freeway.  In a perfect world, the Somerset Freeway would have made a lot of sense as a "Trenton Spur" or "Somerset Spur" or "West Jersey Turnpike" (as Steve Anderson called it) of the New Jersey Turnpike.

[roadfro]

Oh, I expect I-11 will be completed within the next 20-25 years. Just not as currently proposed. On the Nevada end, I suspect environmental concerns will force NDOT to utilize the current US93 footprint in Boulder City. On the Arizona side, too much of what is proposed for the Phoenix area end is subject to developer plans that likely won't see the light of day before 2030. Therefore, I suspect that some combination of the Sun Valley Parkway and SR85 will be used for I-11.

FHWA accepted the Final EIS and made a record of decision on NDOT's US 93 Boulder City Bypass several years ago. Phase 1 (the extension/realignment up to US 95 turnoff) is in the nearer planning horizon and should go to bid/construction in the next couple years. Phase 2 (the rest of it) is the part that the RTC is conducting a tolling feasibility study for, cause otherwise NDOT won't have the money to build it for many more years. So the Nevada portion of proposed I-11 is not too far fetched.

(I will still maintain that the Boulder City Bypass could have been well on its way to completion by now, had NDOT selected a through-town freeway alignment instead of caving to citizen pressure for the southern alternative... but that's my opinion.)

Building the US 93 Bypass through town would probably cost less, and would shorten the length of US 93 wouldn't it?

The length wouldn't have been shortened by too much, but it definitely would have cost less to construct.

[Takumi]

I don't think another bridge between Maryland and Virginia will happen for a long time, due to development in both states.

[Ned Weasel]

My nominee:  Kellogg.  Wink wink, Winkler.

I would say the idea of Kellogg becoming part of I-66 seems unlikely, and I think J N Winkler already commented on the prospects of I-66 in the other "K" state.  As for Kellogg itself, that depends on how you define "finished."

[national highway 1]

Interstate 1, anywhere.

In that case, turning dirt roads into freeways, an interstate to Yellowstone, I-5 to Alaska and Canada and Mexico assimilating into the US would be highly unlikely. Also the removal of I-80 west of Hammond, IN in favor of a transcontinental I-76 is a daft idea.

[Grzrd]

I-26 through Virginia and Kentucky.

[J N Winkler]

My nominee:  Kellogg.  Wink wink, Winkler.

I would say the idea of Kellogg becoming part of I-66 seems unlikely, and I think J N Winkler already commented on the prospects of I-66 in the other "K" state.  As for Kellogg itself, that depends on how you define "finished."

Old joke (winking back):  when the sun goes nova, Kellogg will have to be finished in the dark.

Seriously, though, Kellogg is all but finished in terms of the original plan developed in the 1980's, which was to have a full freeway from one end of the city to the other.  At that time there was essentially no development west of Maize Road or east of the Turnpike interchange, and Kellogg is now a full freeway all the way between those two points with the lone exception of traffic lights at Cypress and Webb, which will go away when the Turnpike interchange and Webb intersection are re-done.

The real problem with Kellogg these days is that housing and retail development has leapfrogged the lengths that have been upgraded to full freeway.  The current plan is now for Kellogg to be upgraded to full freeway all the way from Maize Road west at least to the starting point of the planned Northwest Wichita Bypass (and, I would hope, all the way to the start of the existing US 54 freeway from Garden Plain to Pretty Prairie).  I am not sure about the east side, but it would have to be upgraded to full freeway all the way to the east side of Augusta in order to be development-proof.

In Wichita a recent controversy about slab foundations (laid too thin on poorly drained soil in one subdivision) exposed how powerful the house-building lobby is and how thoroughly it is wired into city government.  This means that new subdivisions go up on the periphery while Wichita's population stays essentially flat and neighborhoods closer in, without the visibility and political connections to attract publicly subsidized revitalization efforts, are left to decline gradually with high vacancy rates, dilapidation of commercial properties, etc.  (For example, West Street between 13th Street and the Kellogg SPUI is a shadow of its former self, and the old Twin Lakes shopping center, which used to house a dining club and several high-end clothing stores, has now gone so far downhill that the driver's license bureau and ComCare function as anchor stores.)

This means that planning control is unlikely to obviate the need for further Kellogg upgrades and so Kellogg will never be finished until it coalesces into the existing freeways in western Sedgwick and eastern Butler counties.  Aside from the Turnpike/Webb, funding for further upgrades has not been identified, and you can bet construction will lag housing development.

[sp_redelectric]

The Newberg-Dundee Bypass in Oregon (Oregon 99W), however at the current rate of progress the "Columbia River Crossing" (replacement of the Interstate Bridge/I-5 between Portland, OR and Vancouver, WA) might be up there too.

[hbelkins]

Most of my nominations have already been mentioned. (I-3, I-73/74, I-66, the WV projects S.P. mentioned, etc.)

I would add:

Bluegrass Parkway extension to I-64.

London-to-Ashland corridor (KY 30, KY 11, KY 715 to the Mountain Parkway, then picking up KY 7 north of West Liberty to Grayson). Portions of the route are already done, and a handful of additions are currently under study or in various stages of planning. However, I think a number of these segments that are even under study now will never be built, not to mention portions of KY 7 that aren't even on the radar screen now.

I-75 to US 27 connector south of Lexington.

Harlan to Hazard connector.

Four-lane KY 15 from Mountain Parkway to Hazard.

I-26 through Virginia and Kentucky.

This has never been seriously considered by anyone official. It's just a "fictional highways" pipe dream and is totally not needed. The existing four-lane US 23 works just fine to serve this corridor.

[xonhulu]

The Newberg-Dundee Bypass in Oregon (Oregon 99W), however at the current rate of progress the "Columbia River Crossing" (replacement of the Interstate Bridge/I-5 between Portland, OR and Vancouver, WA) might be up there too.

They're already tearing down houses in the ROW for the bypass in Newberg, so I think it will eventually get built. It just seems like it will never get done!

But I'm starting to agree with you on the CRC . . . .