Styles of County Line Signs

[bugo]

Here's a rare county line sign on an Oklahoma turnpike.  OTA likes to sign the borders of Indian reservations but they rarely sign county lines.

[NJRoadfan]

T

I thought I had a better version, but maybe it's in the 2014 queue. The Garden State Parkway puts the county name inside a pentagon.

Another one from the GSP, with a municipal border signed: http://goo.gl/maps/eJN7

NJDOT doesn't post county line signs on their roads, just municipal borders.

New York goes the simple route.


Also, NC doesn't always use fancy signs. These varients pop up from time to time
Tiny Enter/Leave: http://goo.gl/maps/or3Vo
County Name + River: http://goo.gl/maps/yHHr
Just the county name: http://goo.gl/maps/rxF4J

[Takumi]

In addition to the standard Virginia fare, Richmond uses a few white obelisks with the city name at its city limits on some main routes. This is on VA 5. The obelisk is on the left. On divided routes with it (US 1/301, VA 147) it's in the median.

[6a]

I don't have a picture handy, but here you see a lot of

ENTER
FRANKLIN CO

LEAVE
MADISON CO

You're not the boss of me!

Ha, it would be funny to see

ENTER
FRANKLIN CO

(bitches vacate...)
MADISON CO

[agentsteel53]

I don't have a picture handy, but here you see a lot of

ENTER
FRANKLIN CO

LEAVE
MADISON CO

You're not the boss of me!

Ha, it would be funny to see

ENTER
FRANKLIN CO

(bitches vacate...)
MADISON CO

okay, someone want to explain the reference? 

[Alps]

Since it hasn't been brought up yet:

[empirestate]

I have never seen a county on one of these mentioned internally.  I am not sure how common they are at county lines, either.  Of my about 175 pictures of these "Entering" signs (found on non-freeway state and US highways at every city/town border, for those who don't know), I can find exactly 2 that show a county name.  Here's the other:



This one is also a state line, taken on US 202 North.

It's likely there are more of these at county lines that do list the county, but I think I can say that there are many such signs at county lines that do not make mention.

That would be my expectation as well: county mentioned only at county lines (and seldom those), but never at a town line that isn't also a county line, since the only lists the things you're "entering".

On a fun side note, there's a cute song by John Forster that has to do with those signs and the various Mass. towns that have women's names (and men's): http://www.johnforster.com/?section=music-group-4/

[on_wisconsin]

Here is Wisconsin's standard county sign layout:

[NE2]

County is NOT part of the place name.

The fuck?

[Kacie Jane]

To expand on NE2's wisdom, I live in Whatcom County.  I do not live in Bellingham City Limit, or even Bellingham City (but maybe the City of Bellingham).  "County" certainly is part of the place name.

Following the MUTCD to the letter should probably yield "ENTERING Whatcom County" or "Whatcom COUNTY LINE".  Personally I can't remember having ever seen a case like the Washington/Donegal one (without either "entering" or "line") in person, but I'm probably mistaken.  But "Washington County" and "Donegal Township" as written are both place names, and should probably be capitalized as such.

[The High Plains Traveler]

Both my most recent two states of residence, Minnesota and Colorado, use "Washington County" (to use a name common to both) as their standard county line sign. Colorado tends to favor all upper case, Minnesota mixed case. New Mexico uses "Bernalillo / COUNTY LINE" as its standard. I recall very small font size signs in Arizona like "ENTER APACHE COUNTY / LEAVE NAVAJO COUNTY" on state highways as the standard, but signage along the interstates I believe is simply "Navajo County".

[adt1982]

How is county not part of the location name?  Explanation, please.

[empirestate]

How is county not part of the location name?  Explanation, please.

I'm not following it either, but I believe it's in the same sense as "Street" not being part of the proper name of "Main Street", for example. The name is "Main", and "Street" is just a modifier. So similarly, in "Washington County", "Washington" is the name, and "County" is the modifier; i.e., the part that isn't unique to the specific feature, even though it's properly capitalized as part of the whole construction. Another example might be "Doctor Johnson", where "Doctor" isn't part of the person's name, but is still capitalized.

Pertaining to signs, then, as in the Pennsylvania example, you have the proper name set of by mixed-case, or in older instances, larger caps, while the modifier is smaller and in all caps. This follows standard boundary signage for PENNDOT, which features standard modifiers of "COUNTY", "TOWNSHIP", "CITY OF", "BOROUGH OF" and "VILLAGE OF".

I think that's the discussion, although I might just be equally confused.

[Kacie Jane]

I think the issue is that on a separate thread, people devoted a lot of time convincing mjb that the words "city limit" are not part of the place name.  Now he's confused, thinking "County" is not part of the place name -- when it is, although "county line" is not.

Regarding what you just posted, empirestate, it's been a while since I took a linguistics class, but the way I interpret the definitions of the applicable terms, I think you're actually backwards.  "Main Street" is the proper name (both words are part of the proper name).  Street is the noun, and Main is the modifier.  (Likewise, I would say that in the context of a sentence, "Doctor Johnson" is in fact the person's name -- both words equally -- but in that case, I'm not sure how/if you would distinguish noun or modifier.

[DTComposer]

Regarding what you just posted, empirestate, it's been a while since I took a linguistics class, but the way I interpret the definitions of the applicable terms, I think you're actually backwards.  "Main Street" is the proper name (both words are part of the proper name).  Street is the noun, and Main is the modifier.  (Likewise, I would say that in the context of a sentence, "Doctor Johnson" is in fact the person's name -- both words equally -- but in that case, I'm not sure how/if you would distinguish noun or modifier.

I think it's slightly different than that (although I also am years removed from school). "Main Street" is, technically, a two-word proper noun, but neither word modifies the other. [The] "main street" (non-capitalized) is the situation where "main" is the modifier and "street" the noun. In a different setup, "Elm Avenue [proper noun] is the main street [modifier and noun]." We drop the suffix "Street," "Avenue" etc. for convenience, the same way we don't use both first and last names of people in informal conversation. Some communities (Irvine, CA for example) has actually formally named many of its streets without suffixes (which I don't care for).

It is the same with an honorific ("Doctor", etc.); to be very precise, we all have prefixes (at the least, Mr. and Miss or Ms.); most of the time we choose not to use them. "Mr. John Smith" is one three-word proper noun. We pick which parts to use depending on context and formality.

Going back to the topic, I believe that for most if not all counties (and cities), the legal and formal name is "County of [Name]." I'm not sure how that got turned around so the informal usage is "[Name] County" as opposed to Ireland which goes by "County [Name]."

[1995hoo]

I recall hearing a rationale explaining that Kacie Jane has it right, but the funny thing is that where I had this explained to me was in Montreal. In French-speaking areas the "street type" always comes first: boulevard Rene-Levesque, chemin du Village, rue Sherbrooke, avenue du President-Kennedy. The reason it's that way is that in French the common noun normally comes first and the adjective comes second–for example, we say "red wine" but they say "le vin rouge" (there are exceptions to this general principle). Thus, the one particular street is designated a "road" and then the adjective coming afterward tells you which road (Sherbrooke), with the "generic" or "common noun" status underscored by the fact that they don't normally capitalize the type of road if another word comes before it.

Of course, the rules of French grammar don't necessarily automatically follow into English, but I find the explanation to be quite logical. Obviously it's not unprecedented for English-speaking areas to put the street type first–consider all the lettered avenues in Brooklyn, for example (such as Avenue X).

The one that threw me for a loop when I heard it is Avenue Road in Toronto–I wondered whether it is an avenue named Road or a road named Avenue (apparently the latter is correct).



Anyway, returning to the topic:

I've seen the independent cities in Virginia use these sorts of signs both on entry and exit, although often they're used as adjuncts to the "official" boring green VDOT-issued "Enter/Leave" signs.

Oddly, here in Fairfax County at least one of the county's administrative districts posts some fancy signs of that sort when you enter and leave the district. The Bing Maps "Streetside" view is a lot clearer than the Google Street View image. I pass this one almost every day. It has the Fairfax County seal on both sides and it tells you you're entering or leaving Lee District (the side shown here says "Drive Safely" and the other side says "Lee District Welcomes You"). I've never seen that level of specificity anywhere else!

[Alex]

Maryland's is decent. They like to use the Welcome to [county name] County (or in this case, "Co) with what I think may be the given county's seal on the top left:

Generally the county seal is placed on county line signs in Maryland, with some exceptions such as this brand new install from June 2012...

The county line sign along US 1 northbound entering Cecil County is a new Clearview-based sign, and it does retain the county seal.

[empirestate]

Regarding what you just posted, empirestate, it's been a while since I took a linguistics class, but the way I interpret the definitions of the applicable terms, I think you're actually backwards.  "Main Street" is the proper name (both words are part of the proper name).  Street is the noun, and Main is the modifier.  (Likewise, I would say that in the context of a sentence, "Doctor Johnson" is in fact the person's name -- both words equally -- but in that case, I'm not sure how/if you would distinguish noun or modifier.

I think it's slightly different than that (although I also am years removed from school). "Main Street" is, technically, a two-word proper noun, but neither word modifies the other. [The] "main street" (non-capitalized) is the situation where "main" is the modifier and "street" the noun. In a different setup, "Elm Avenue [proper noun] is the main street [modifier and noun]." We drop the suffix "Street," "Avenue" etc. for convenience, the same way we don't use both first and last names of people in informal conversation. Some communities (Irvine, CA for example) has actually formally named many of its streets without suffixes (which I don't care for).

It is the same with an honorific ("Doctor", etc.); to be very precise, we all have prefixes (at the least, Mr. and Miss or Ms.); most of the time we choose not to use them. "Mr. John Smith" is one three-word proper noun. We pick which parts to use depending on context and formality.

Going back to the topic, I believe that for most if not all counties (and cities), the legal and formal name is "County of [Name]." I'm not sure how that got turned around so the informal usage is "[Name] County" as opposed to Ireland which goes by "County [Name]."

I think we're pretty much meaning the same thing, but I was speaking less in lingustic or semantic terms than in those of typographic convention. For example, posted street signs usually set off the "street", "avenue", "boulevard", etc. in a less prominent font and abbreviated, just as how written texts usually abbreviate "Dr." or "St."–but whether those terms function as part of a proper name as a multi-word unit, I'll buy arguments either way.

(A couple salient points, if you'll permit me the tangent: 1) you will see older texts that don't capitalize affixes like "street" and "road" as these terms seem to have undergone a transition from adjective-noun descriptive pairs to standalone Proper Nouns. 2) also compare "Doctor Johnson" with "the Reverend Smith". Although we do treat these as proper names, the existence of "the" along with "Reverend" suggests to me another bridge back to the days of functioning as adjective-noun pairs.)

At any rate, I'll similarly buy arguments on either side as to whether "County" or "Township" are components of proper nouns (and the wording of establishing legislation may introduce variables), but it's still pretty common typographical practice to set off the non-unique part of the name by abbreviation or or font size. It wouldn't be wrong to treat the words equally, but I also don't think it destroys any meaning by setting off the more generic part of the name.

I didn't see the other thread that introduced this question, so I'm not sure exactly what point I'm supposed to be proving, but it's an interesting exercise anyhow!

[formulanone]

Florida's aren't much to write home about.

[Duke87]

Connecticut never signs county lines but they habitually sign every municipal boundary.

There are three styles. The signs on the Merritt Parkway just say the name with no other text ("Norwalk"). The signs on any other freeway traditionally have listed the exits within the municipality as well as the name:

   Darien
Exits 10-13
--------------
Town Line

Though newer ones sadly omit the exits - I believe this is for the sake of MUTCD conformance. And then you have the signs on non-freeways, which list the date of incorporation or settlement:

STAMFORD
SETTLED 1639
CITY LINE

[xcellntbuy]

County government was abolished in Connecticut in 1960.  No need to sign something that no longer exists.

[Eth]

Georgia's are the same style as this, at least on surface roads.  On freeways, the county name is a little larger and mixed-case.

[Brian556]

This one is on the Denton/Grayson County line on US 377.

[Road Hog]

This one is on the Denton/Grayson County line on US 377.

There's so much goodness with this picture. A pre-Clearview sign in the new style; a mile marker; and the old vertical county line marker. That's Pilot Point High School in the background.

[Jim]

This thread needs an Adirondack Park gold-on-brown county line sign.  Route 30 North: