Someone wanna tell PA it's been more than 5 years?

[jeffandnicole]

Around 2001/2002, Pennsylvania revamped their exit number system from a sequentially numbered exit system to a milepost based exit system.  The reports at the time mentioned a smaller sign with the old exit number would be attached to the sign for 5 years.

11 years later, and a number of these signs with the old exit number remain.  Unless you're using a 2000 road atlas, no one should be even paying attention to these exit numbers anymore.  When are they going to get around to removing them?

[1995hoo]

But did they confirm they were planning to take them down after five years? If all they said was that they'd be attached for five years, it seems they lived up to that commitment.

What would it cost to remove them? I could see waiting until the signs have to be replaced so as not to have to spend the extra money.

[Alex]

You can still find a few Old Exit tabs on I-275 in Florida, and they changed their exit numbers in 2002. Same premise, they all should have been removed years ago, but here we are and they are still in place.

[vdeane]

Why bother?  It costs time/money to remove them for little gain.  Just wait until the sign is replaced.

[machias]

I have seen on a couple of those signs on the NE Extension that have slid all the way to the bottom of their signpost and are resting on the ground. I'm always surprised that these survive sitting at such an accessible height.

[jeffandnicole]

One would think they were attached in such a way that would require minimal work to have them removed, as in no more work required than it takes to add or remove any number of signs that exist along the roadway, especialy along the right shoulder.

[Mr_Northside]

I've wondered that myself.  I also remember reading that the new signs would be up for just a handful of years.

Of course, with the I-376 extension here in Western PA, the exit renumberings that resulted on all of the Parkways to adjust to a shorter I-279 / longer I-376, all of the "Old Exit" signs were replaced with a brand new set of "Old Exit" signs using the original mileage-based numbers.
At least they didn't keep both simultaneously.

[xcellntbuy]

When they converted to mileage-based exit numbers in Florida, the old sequential signs were to be removed in, I believe, three years.  Hurricanes Charley, Frances, Ivan Jeanne and Wilma did a very good job clearing them off in 2004 and 2005.

[kphoger]

One would think they were attached in such a way that would require minimal work to have them removed, as in no more work required than it takes to add or remove any number of signs that exist along the roadway, especialy along the right shoulder.

It may be relatively inexpensive.  But not removing them at all is still free.

[vdeane]

One would think they were attached in such a way that would require minimal work to have them removed, as in no more work required than it takes to add or remove any number of signs that exist along the roadway, especialy along the right shoulder.

They guy who goes around to remove them still has to be paid.  Why bother?  There is ZERO benefit to doing so.

[mc78andrew]

One would think they were attached in such a way that would require minimal work to have them removed, as in no more work required than it takes to add or remove any number of signs that exist along the roadway, especialy along the right shoulder.

They guy who goes around to remove them still has to be paid.  Why bother?  There is ZERO benefit to doing so.

Would this type of work be sub contracted out?  I am not familer with the inner workings of any dot.  My initial guess is that they have a unionized work force that will book hours no matter what or that they are salaried. If that's the case I would think they can do all kinds of work that doesn't really need to be done.

How would such a project work and be funded? 

What's funny is that I get off at the Clifford exit on I-81 all summer long and have been doing so for 30 years.  I know the current exit is 206 and I can see the "old exit" sign in my head, but I cannot remember the number.  I want to guess 63, but that's only based on my assumption that 58 was Clark's summit and that Clifford is 5 exits away from that.  I thought I'd never forget that number when they switched the numbering system. 

287 in somerset and Morris counties had old exit numebers posted for a while I remember, but I cannot remember where exactly or why or how long they were posted for. 

[kphoger]

One would think they were attached in such a way that would require minimal work to have them removed, as in no more work required than it takes to add or remove any number of signs that exist along the roadway, especialy along the right shoulder.

They guy who goes around to remove them still has to be paid.  Why bother?  There is ZERO benefit to doing so.

Would this type of work be sub contracted out?  I am not familer with the inner workings of any dot.  My initial guess is that they have a unionized work force that will book hours no matter what or that they are salaried. If that's the case I would think they can do all kinds of work that doesn't really need to be done.

How would such a project work and be funded? 

The point remains that there is zero benefit in taking them down.  Even if there were zero extra salary involved, it would still require planning, vehicles, tools, and, whatever else–possibly lane closures, depending on the signs (I'm not familiar with the area).  With zero benefit, why bother at all?

[Alps]

The last Former Exit sign came down on I-287, at Exit 41B northbound, thanks to ongoing construction. I'm not even sure that the gore sign was replaced, but just having crews in the area was enough. Yeah, though, you're not going to send someone out to pull down signs unless they're wrong or confusing.

[PAHighways]

From what I have seen, those "OLD EXIT ##" signs have been disappearing on their own.

[roadman65]

In Florida FDOT did remove old exit number signs for the most part, but in the Orlando and Tampa areas they left them up.  However, new projects that require signs to be changed have removed them.

Of course its obvious why they were left in these areas, because of the many tourists that flock to the Orlando and Tampa Bay areas.  However, FDOT stuck with their intention mostly as they did say 2 years of dual signage.

[Takumi]

The Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike section of I-95 has several pre-1992 exit tabs still up, but with current numbers greened out over them. (I believe the tabs date to the late 1980s.) A few years ago, the patch for I-64 eastbound's exit (old 11, new 75) on I-95 northbound fell off, revealing the old number. It was eventually patched with a tiny 75 that still remains.

[roadman]

One would think they were attached in such a way that would require minimal work to have them removed, as in no more work required than it takes to add or remove any number of signs that exist along the roadway, especialy along the right shoulder.

They guy who goes around to remove them still has to be paid.  Why bother?  There is ZERO benefit to doing so.

Would this type of work be sub contracted out?  I am not familer with the inner workings of any dot.  My initial guess is that they have a unionized work force that will book hours no matter what or that they are salaried. If that's the case I would think they can do all kinds of work that doesn't really need to be done.

How would such a project work and be funded? 

The point remains that there is zero benefit in taking them down.  Even if there were zero extra salary involved, it would still require planning, vehicles, tools, and, whatever else–possibly lane closures, depending on the signs (I'm not familiar with the area).  With zero benefit, why bother at all?

As I recall, a large number of PA's "Old Exit XX" signs were mounted overhead next to the signs they supplement.  These signs represent an increase, albiet a minimal one, in loading on the structure.  So, by removing the signs, which most agree are now unnecessary, you are also reducing the loading.  Sounds like a benefit to me.

[SteveG1988]

I say, keep them up until the next round of sign replacements happens. Most effective use of resources. I could see them removing it along 276 past I-95 once the interchange is complete

[kkt]

As I recall, a large number of PA's "Old Exit XX" signs were mounted overhead next to the signs they supplement.  These signs represent an increase, albiet a minimal one, in loading on the structure.  So, by removing the signs, which most agree are now unnecessary, you are also reducing the loading.  Sounds like a benefit to me.

CalTrans wants to know if Pennsylvania did new engineering studies for every sign gantry before adding an additional small sign...

[roadman]

As I recall, a large number of PA's "Old Exit XX" signs were mounted overhead next to the signs they supplement.  These signs represent an increase, albiet a minimal one, in loading on the structure.  So, by removing the signs, which most agree are now unnecessary, you are also reducing the loading.  Sounds like a benefit to me.

CalTrans wants to know if Pennsylvania did new engineering studies for every sign gantry before adding an additional small sign...

KKT's comment actually brings a question to mind.  Do PA specifications call for providing a design load that's X percent greater than the sign area, to account for possible increases in sign panels when the panels are replaced, but not the structure?  Given that one of the stated purposes of Clearview was to improve sign legibility without increasing the panel size, I doubt it.

Prior to the late 1980s, it was common practice, unless any specific state's specifications were more rigid, for sign structure fabricators to "overbuild" sign support structures so they could safely accommodate an increase of approximately ten percent in panel area without requiring a specific analysis of each and every structure to add the extra sign(s).  This practice was largely discontinued for cost reasons.

While sign structures fabricated for states (like Massachusetts) that do not currently have a specific "overbuild" requirement written into their specs do have a safety factor built in, it is usually between 2 and 4 percent of the calculated dead and ice load.  However, even if the "Old Exit XX" signs fall below this threshold, accepted engineering practice is still to minimize excess loading by removing such "add-on" signs if and when they are no longer needed.

[roadman65]

I do remember FDOT telling me once during an interaction of why there are no exit numbers on FL 528 at many exits where FDOT maintains the road except on ground assemblies.  They explained that adding exit tabs can and will reduce the signs structural integrity and could result as a safety hazard in high wind situations. 

PA is not hurricane prone like FL, so PennDOT maybe feel that its not an issue.