Is it incorrect to call a toll road a "freeway"?

[NE2]

We usually use super-2.  I think super-4 refers to a four lane, undivided freeway.

Except I've been on highways called "super-2" that had driveways and crossroads.

Yep. "Super-2" meaning two-lane freeway is a roadgeek invention.

[agentsteel53]

I thought 'super-2' in general was a roadgeek invention.

[NE2]

I thought 'super-2' in general was a roadgeek invention.

http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/txdotmanuals/rdw/super_2_highways.htm
http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/highway-s-new-super-looks-great-but-not-a-super/article_eb67318e-1338-11e1-8348-001cc4c03286.html
http://safety.transportation.org/prgpub.aspx?pid=685
http://www.wdio.com/article/stories/s2972701.shtml

It's usually used for some sort of high-standard two-lane.

[J N Winkler]

Freeway:  Fully controlled access, divided highway, in urban settings; or almost fully controlled access in rural settings (those cross roads in West Texas don't make me stop calling the highway a freeway).

I don't make a distinction between urban and rural; I get around the west Texas/New Mexico driveway problem by treating them as one-sided RIRO interchanges.  I will also call an undivided road that has full control of access a freeway, but always with a qualification that indicates a median or center barrier is not present (such as "Super Two freeway," "undivided four-lane highway with full access control," etc.).

[agentsteel53]

I get around the west Texas/New Mexico driveway problem by treating them as one-sided RIRO interchanges.

are there still any driveways on I-40 in New Mexico?  they certainly haven't been signed since about 2005 (with the famous "TEMPORARY" signage), but I've never looked carefully.  I know there are driveways with ranch gates in many places, like I-8 in Arizona, which are generally not mentioned.

that said, some of Texas's at-grades allow left turns.  there is a paved median crossing, complete with YIELD signs.

[NE2]

that said, some of Texas's at-grades allow left turns.  there is a paved median crossing, complete with YIELD signs.

Example: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=31.189288,-105.419344&spn=0.002093,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=31.189231,-105.419112&panoid=-jrW_PzUkgpAuXOLKgvUqw&cbp=12,297.84,,0,5.85

[Alps]

We usually use super-2.  I think super-4 refers to a four lane, undivided freeway.

Except I've been on highways called "super-2" that had driveways and crossroads.

Yep. "Super-2" meaning two-lane freeway is a roadgeek invention.

The AA Highway meets the conventional definition of a Super 2, for reference.

[lepidopteran]

Another area east of the Mississippi that seems to like the term "freeway": Detroit.  M-39 is the Southfield Freeway, M-10 (in part) is the John C. Lodge Freeway, M-8 the Davison Freeway, etc.

It seems that freeway means "free" as in "flow", not "free" as in "beer".

[A.J. Bertin]

that said, some of Texas's at-grades allow left turns.  there is a paved median crossing, complete with YIELD signs.

Example: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=31.189288,-105.419344&spn=0.002093,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=31.189231,-105.419112&panoid=-jrW_PzUkgpAuXOLKgvUqw&cbp=12,297.84,,0,5.85

Yikes... an at-grade intersection on an Interstate? Wow.

[wxfree]

Yikes... an at-grade intersection on an Interstate? Wow.

For a bit extra yikes factor, the speed limit there is 80.

[agentsteel53]

Yikes... an at-grade intersection on an Interstate? Wow.

it's no different than having an at-grade on, say, US-395 in the Sierras.  in fact, given the excellent visibility (all flat land) and the lack of traffic, it is significantly safer.

[agentsteel53]

that said, some of Texas's at-grades allow left turns.  there is a paved median crossing, complete with YIELD signs.

Example: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=31.189288,-105.419344&spn=0.002093,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=31.189231,-105.419112&panoid=-jrW_PzUkgpAuXOLKgvUqw&cbp=12,297.84,,0,5.85

what is most interesting about that is the side road.  pan to the north slightly and note what appears to a circular roadway and an elliptical one.  any idea what their purpose is?  truck turnarounds?

[A.J. Bertin]

Yikes... an at-grade intersection on an Interstate? Wow.

it's no different than having an at-grade on, say, US-395 in the Sierras.  in fact, given the excellent visibility (all flat land) and the lack of traffic, it is significantly safer.

It is a lot different. U.S. highways are very often non-freeways and, therefore, have cross traffic with at-grade intersections. Interstates, on the other hand, are not supposed to have any cross traffic at all. The example shared was an Interstate with an at-grade intersection.

[1995hoo]

Yikes... an at-grade intersection on an Interstate? Wow.

it's no different than having an at-grade on, say, US-395 in the Sierras.  in fact, given the excellent visibility (all flat land) and the lack of traffic, it is significantly safer.

It is a lot different. U.S. highways are very often non-freeways and, therefore, have cross traffic with at-grade intersections. Interstates, on the other hand, are not supposed to have any cross traffic at all. The example shared was an Interstate with an at-grade intersection.

Ever been to rural parts of the West? It's really not a big deal at all and it's a sensible place for ignoring some of the Interstate design standards in limited situations where traffic volumes are very low, the expense of building an interchange would be utterly unwarranted, and it's unreasonable to force drivers to go many miles out of their way just to reach an interchange.

[agentsteel53]

Interstates, on the other hand, are not supposed to have any cross traffic at all. The example shared was an Interstate with an at-grade intersection.

if you're going to go after egregious interstate violations, see I-180 in Cheyenne or something. 

I've had more cross traffic on I-684 in greater NYC than on I-10 in rural Texas.  (some schmuck made a U-turn at a police crossing.)

[NE2]

what is most interesting about that is the side road.  pan to the north slightly and note what appears to a circular roadway and an elliptical one.  any idea what their purpose is?  truck turnarounds?

Keep panning - it looks like a stillborn residential development. Then it became a sludge dump: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/27/us/new-york-s-sewage-was-a-texas-town-s-gold.html

[J N Winkler]

are there still any driveways on I-40 in New Mexico?  they certainly haven't been signed since about 2005 (with the famous "TEMPORARY" signage), but I've never looked carefully.  I know there are driveways with ranch gates in many places, like I-8 in Arizona, which are generally not mentioned.

I remember there being at-grade driveways on I-40 west of the Rio Puerco bridge, but the last time I was on that road was in . . . 2005.

that said, some of Texas's at-grades allow left turns.  there is a paved median crossing, complete with YIELD signs.

That is harder to handwave away.  In principle you could treat them on the same basis as one of the loop ramps at I-10/I-20 (left exit, left entry), but my heart isn't really in it.

(There were left turns on the original Italian autostrade, BTW.  RIRO was a later innovation.)

[kphoger]

that said, some of Texas's at-grades allow left turns.  there is a paved median crossing, complete with YIELD signs.

In principle you could treat them on the same basis as one of the loop ramps at I-10/I-20 (left exit, left entry), but my heart isn't really in it.

I don't think so.  As we've had this discussion before, the loop ramp in the middle of I-10/I-20 functions as a large crossover.  A crossover and a four-way intersection are not the same thing.  The intersections agentsteel53 mentions allow for right-angle collisions, whereas (if we even consider it a crossover at all), the loop ramp in I-10/I-20 certainly does not.

[agentsteel53]

I remember there being at-grade driveways on I-40 west of the Rio Puerco bridge, but the last time I was on that road was in . . . 2005.

I have been there as recently as 2012, and I have not noticed any.  certainly none overtly marked, but there could be a few dirt turnoffs to ranch gates that I just don't notice at 80mph.

I remember noticing just such a gate, which led to some sort of radio/microwave/cellular facility, off I-8 a few years back - not one that is commonly discussed among the roadgeek crowd, but certainly a piece of property whose access seems to be I-8.

I don't remember exactly where, other than that it is east of Telegraph Pass, and on the south side of the road. 

[J N Winkler]

I remember there being at-grade driveways on I-40 west of the Rio Puerco bridge, but the last time I was on that road was in . . . 2005.

I have been there as recently as 2012, and I have not noticed any.  certainly none overtly marked, but there could be a few dirt turnoffs to ranch gates that I just don't notice at 80mph.

I found one just now in a casual search of Google Maps satellite imagery--one that permits left turns, no less:

I-40 somewhere east of NM 6 interchange but west of end of Central Ave. frontage road outside Albuquerque

Intersection warning sign for traffic upstream on I-40

[agentsteel53]

imagery date April 2009.  I believe it is gone; I'd be surprised if I didn't notice it, since I was explicitly looking out for it.

[J N Winkler]

imagery date April 2009.  I believe it is gone; I'd be surprised if I didn't notice it, since I was explicitly looking out for it.

2009 is the date of the StreetView imagery, but the 2013 satellite imagery still shows the driveways.

The intersection warning sign is ground-mounted, so you would likely have missed it if you had been in the middle of overtaking an 18-wheeler at the time you passed it--this length of I-40 has high truck volumes.

[theline]

Can anyone read the blade under the warning sign? My bad eyes make it out as "Temporary." If so, that may help explain.

[J N Winkler]

Can anyone read the blade under the warning sign? My bad eyes make it out as "Temporary." If so, that may help explain.

It does say "TEMPORARY," but then it said that in 2005 too.  I think it is a figleaf to satisfy the FHWA requirement that driveways (or other at-grade accesses to Interstates) be temporary in character; i.e., there must be an intention to stop up the driveway or access at some point in the future, even if that time never arrives.

[NE2]

What about the white sign in the median at the intersection?