Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

[Rothman]

Oh I'm very much aware that NDOT opened the door for all this fantastical talk.  All the same it only makes it nominally less FritzOwlian.   

I find much of the conversation totally speculative/fictional, despite the loose foundation in NDOT's public information.

[cl94]

Oh I'm very much aware that NDOT opened the door for all this fantastical talk.  All the same it only makes it nominally less FritzOwlian.   

I find much of the conversation totally speculative/fictional, despite the loose foundation in NDOT's public information.

Anything north of Mercury is purely speculative at this point. There's a reason why NDOT refuses to do anything other than outlining corridors north of there until south of Mercury is complete, and it has everything to do with not wanting to expend more than minimal effort on a segment until it is clear that constructing something is within the realm of possibility. Last thing NDOT wants is to find itself in the middle of several I-11 contracts and then watch the political will disappear.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[Anthony_JK]

Sorry, but I still do not see the need for extending I-11 beyond Las Vegas, or even the justification for it in the first place. US 93 from I-40 to Wickenberg and US 60 from there to AZ 303 in the outskirts of Phoenix could be upgraded, and having a system interchange connection at Kingman between a US 93 bypass of Beale Street and I-40 would be nice, but anything north of I/CC 215 north of Vegas is pure conjecture. The Tucson section is not needed because AZ 85 can be upgraded with a system interchange with I-8 just east of Gila Bend, then just use I-8/I-10/I-19 to finish off to the Mexico border. I just don't see the need for anything north of Vegas that doesn't connect with I-580 to Reno. Finishing off the I/CC 215 loop around Vegas is a much more important priority. Everything else concerning I-11 should go over to Fictional.

[Max Rockatansky]

Really the only full limited access corridor that is "necessary" is just between Las Vegas and Kingman.  From there all that really needs to be done is widen US 93 through the Joshua Tree Forest and bypass Wickenburg.  That former item is going to have a lot of environmental challenges when the time comes.

[vdeane]

Oh I'm very much aware that NDOT opened the door for all this fantastical talk.  All the same it only makes it nominally less FritzOwlian.   

I find much of the conversation totally speculative/fictional, despite the loose foundation in NDOT's public information.

And the several pages of discussion on extending it north of I-80 don't even have that.

[US 395]

Sorry, but I still do not see the need for extending I-11 beyond Las Vegas, or even the justification for it in the first place. US 93 from I-40 to Wickenberg and US 60 from there to AZ 303 in the outskirts of Phoenix could be upgraded, and having a system interchange connection at Kingman between a US 93 bypass of Beale Street and I-40 would be nice, but anything north of I/CC 215 north of Vegas is pure conjecture. The Tucson section is not needed because AZ 85 can be upgraded with a system interchange with I-8 just east of Gila Bend, then just use I-8/I-10/I-19 to finish off to the Mexico border. I just don't see the need for anything north of Vegas that doesn't connect with I-580 to Reno. Finishing off the I/CC 215 loop around Vegas is a much more important priority. Everything else concerning I-11 should go over to Fictional.

Same. I just don't see there ever being a need for it to begin with. It doesn't exactly go anywhere right now. Doesn't seem like NDOT is too serious about I-11 anyway since (as far as I'm aware) there aren't plans to change the exit numbers to follow I-11 mileage on the newly branded segments.

[Scott5114]

Doesn't seem like NDOT is too serious about I-11 anyway since (as fas as I'm aware) there aren't plans to change the exit numbers to follow I-11 mileage on the newly branded segments.

I think they're just going to do that later. There's a blurb on the NDOT site right now about renumbering the exits on I-580 so that they start at I-580 mile 0 instead of US-395 mile 0. If they're bothering with that, I can't imagine they would leave I-11 the way it is. But priority is probably on getting it signed as 11 to begin with.

Finishing off the I/CC 215 loop around Vegas is a much more important priority.

As far as I could tell as of last Wednesday, it is finished. There's some reconstruction work going on between Jones and I-15 on the south end, but that's a segment that's been open for years.

[lstone19]

There's a blurb on the NDOT site right now about renumbering the exits on I-580 so that they start at I-580 mile 0 instead of US-395 mile 0. If they're bothering with that, I can't imagine they would leave I-11 the way it is.

Huh? That was done some years ago.

[abqtraveler]

The problem is that this would bypass Hawthorne, which is both the only place to find services in the area and a decent traffic generator in its own right (due to the Army ammunition plant there).

The Hawthorne AAP is the main employer in that location. And it's not as if that military employers wants a lot of general public traffic moving through that location. It might actually be a benefit to the Army if public Interstate highway traffic was shunted East over the side of the next mountain ridge.

I think the AAP makes it difficult for right-of-way expansion and interstate conversion. It's not unprecedented for a freeway to be built through a military base (see NC 24/87/210 in Fayetteville / Fort Liberty), but being an ammo depot, maybe they would be more sensitive about it, particularly with clearing the ordinance.

And assuming the DOD doesn't give an inch for right-of-way, I imagine it would either kill an interstate through there or be destructive to the town of Hawthorne. DOD might even prefer a more direct route to the east, leaving US 95 for local access, but the eastern I-11 for the long-haul traffic.

The biggest concern going through the Hawthorne AAP is ensuring there is enough clear space between the highway ROW and the storage igloos on the base. Looking at Google Maps, it looks like US-95 heading east from the Hawthorne Bypass occupies a 150-foot ROW, and the nearest igloos are about 700-800 feet from the highway. I would assume that the ROW would need to be expanded to 300 feet to add a parallel roadway, which would still remain 550-650 feet from the nearest weapons storage igloos. But, they would also have to look at DoD and Army regulations, as they would likely have minimum distances that weapons storage facilities have to be be from the base perimeter fenceline.

[US 395]

Doesn't seem like NDOT is too serious about I-11 anyway since (as fas as I'm aware) there aren't plans to change the exit numbers to follow I-11 mileage on the newly branded segments.

I think they're just going to do that later. There's a blurb on the NDOT site right now about renumbering the exits on I-580 so that they start at I-580 mile 0 instead of US-395 mile 0. If they're bothering with that, I can't imagine they would leave I-11 the way it is. But priority is probably on getting it signed as 11 to begin with.

Finishing off the I/CC 215 loop around Vegas is a much more important priority.

As far as I could tell as of last Wednesday, it is finished. There's some reconstruction work going on between Jones and I-15 on the south end, but that's a segment that's been open for years.

The 580 exit numbers were changed back in 2019. Saw them do it. I personally thought (and still do) that it was dumb to change longstanding exit numbers when the freeway continues beyond the Spaghetti Bowl interchange with exit numbers based on 395 mileage.
I'm sure the reasons that might be given could be that because the feds said so or because the number 580 is in an interstate shield so therefore it takes precedence over US 395 despite it being the main/through route in the Reno area.

[Scott5114]

The problem is that this would bypass Hawthorne, which is both the only place to find services in the area and a decent traffic generator in its own right (due to the Army ammunition plant there).

The Hawthorne AAP is the main employer in that location. And it's not as if that military employers wants a lot of general public traffic moving through that location. It might actually be a benefit to the Army if public Interstate highway traffic was shunted East over the side of the next mountain ridge.

I think the AAP makes it difficult for right-of-way expansion and interstate conversion. It's not unprecedented for a freeway to be built through a military base (see NC 24/87/210 in Fayetteville / Fort Liberty), but being an ammo depot, maybe they would be more sensitive about it, particularly with clearing the ordinance.

And assuming the DOD doesn't give an inch for right-of-way, I imagine it would either kill an interstate through there or be destructive to the town of Hawthorne. DOD might even prefer a more direct route to the east, leaving US 95 for local access, but the eastern I-11 for the long-haul traffic.

The biggest concern going through the Hawthorne AAP is ensuring there is enough clear space between the highway ROW and the storage igloos on the base. Looking at Google Maps, it looks like US-95 heading east from the Hawthorne Bypass occupies a 150-foot ROW, and the nearest igloos are about 700-800 feet from the highway. I would assume that the ROW would need to be expanded to 300 feet to add a parallel roadway, which would still remain 550-650 feet from the nearest weapons storage igloos. But, they would also have to look at DoD and Army regulations, as they would likely have minimum distances that weapons storage facilities have to be be from the base perimeter fenceline.

If the ROW ends up being needed (presupposing that building in the area has already been decided to be feasible, funding has been acquired, etc.), it'd probably actually be easier to get it from the DOD than it would be a private landowner. If the Nevada government were committed enough to it that they were acquiring ROW, it would just be a matter of one of the Congressional lawmakers (probably Mark Amodei, or one of the senators) to write a Congressional bill saying "The Department of Defense shall transfer X land to the Nevada Department of Transportation" and then that's that, DOD has no choice in the matter anymore. At that point moving anything on the land that is in or too close to the corridor is entirely DOD's problem.

If the project were high enough level that people outside of Nevada were interested in it, you probably wouldn't even have to do that, the secretaries of USDOT and DOD would sit down and have a talk about it. And if they couldn't come to an agreement the President of the United States could just order one of them to stand down.

The point is that DOD is not an organization that can just say "No" just because they want to and that be that. Especially in a situation like this where there's already an established corridor through the land, so it's not raising any new security concerns that weren't there previously.

[Max Rockatansky]

Why wouldn't the DOD grant an easement that makes it easier for their personnel to get around?  There is a ton of instances where Federal funding got chipped in to enhance non-Interstate road infrastructure to and around DOD installations.

[Finrod]

What I find interesting about the US 95 interchange at Mercury is how the ramp to 95 South is rounded off so the traffic doesn't have to turn, when one can see on the satellite that at one point a more standard-looking ramp had been cleared at one point.  The radius on the exit ramp curve from 95 North is also greater than the entrance ramp curve onto 95 North.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5982276,-115.9976522,684m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

[Bobby5280]

Why wouldn't the DOD grant an easement that makes it easier for their personnel to get around?  There is a ton of instances where Federal funding got chipped in to enhance non-Interstate road infrastructure to and around DOD installations.

Sometimes stupid things happen when different government agencies are expected to work together and elected lawmakers (and their politics) are also involved.

Then there is also an issue of what's in the ground on the Army's AAP property. If the Army has to relocate some buildings near US-95 to make room for a new freeway it's possible they might have to do some cleanup work in the land as part of the process. At least it's not a missile or artillery firing range where unexploded ordinance might be in the ground. But there is still plenty of not healthy materials in things that go boom.

Routing a new Interstate highway around Hawthorne at an acceptable design speed and curve geometry would require shaving into Army property a good bit on the East and North sides of Hawthorne. The concept Interstate would probably even have to skirt the North side of Hawthorne airport to avoid the cemetery and other stuff along US-95.

[Scott5114]

Then there is also an issue of what's in the ground on the Army's AAP property. If the Army has to relocate some buildings near US-95 to make room for a new freeway it's possible they might have to do some cleanup work in the land as part of the process. At least it's not a missile or artillery firing range where unexploded ordinance might be in the ground. But there is still plenty of not healthy materials in things that go boom.

This is true, but the remediation procedures for a piece of land that will be used as highway right-of-way are less strict than what would be required if it was going to be used for residential development (or other types of development where people are going to be out walking around).

[pderocco]

What I find interesting about the US 95 interchange at Mercury is how the ramp to 95 South is rounded off so the traffic doesn't have to turn, when one can see on the satellite that at one point a more standard-looking ramp had been cleared at one point.  The radius on the exit ramp curve from 95 North is also greater than the entrance ramp curve onto 95 North.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5982276,-115.9976522,684m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

I think that's for later conversion to a trumpet interchange.

[roadfro]

What I find interesting about the US 95 interchange at Mercury is how the ramp to 95 South is rounded off so the traffic doesn't have to turn, when one can see on the satellite that at one point a more standard-looking ramp had been cleared at one point.  The radius on the exit ramp curve from 95 North is also greater than the entrance ramp curve onto 95 North.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5982276,-115.9976522,684m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

I think that's for later conversion to a trumpet interchange.

The current design is likely in place to facilitate freer movement of traffic to/from the south, given the amount of activity that used to be out at the test site. Note that the divided highway ends about a mile to the north/west, and not much traffic coming from that way is bound to take this exit. This interchange has been in this configuration at least 23 years (the first time I drove by it), long before I-11 concepts, so it's doubtful a trumpet was ever in anyone's mind (and seems unlikely even in the I-11 buildout scenario).

[KelleyCook]

his interchange has been in this configuration at least 23 years (the first time I drove by it), long before I-11 concepts, so it's doubtful a trumpet was ever in anyone's mind (and seems unlikely even in the I-11 buildout scenario).

Make it at least 40 years...

https://www.historicaerials.com/location/36.599542913631645/-115.99484324455261/1983/16

[The Ghostbuster]

Are there any updates on when the Interstate 215-to-NV 157 segment of Interstate 11/US 95's exits will be renumbered to correspond with Interstate 11's mileage?

[vdeane]

Are there any updates on when the Interstate 215-to-NV 157 segment of Interstate 11/US 95's exits will be renumbered to correspond with Interstate 11's mileage?

If it's like I-580, we might have to wait for I-11 to make it to Reno (if it ever does).  Or maybe they're waiting for I-11 to reach Mercury (which would allow them to get rid of the rest of the US 95 exit numbers).

[Bobby5280]

An I-11 extension to Mercury at least seems within the realm of possibility under current circumstances. Going any farther past that will require some really serious efforts from lawmakers. There at least has to be a big picture plan in place, kind of like what there is for I-69. The planning for I-11 is kind of a mess.

[Plutonic Panda]

Unless I'm mistaken, the segment between Kingman and the Nevada state line is not happening anytime soon. Arizona doesn't seem to have anything more than a study about it but maybe I miss something. I'm not not sure.

[Bobby5280]

The freeway connection in Kingman is by far the hardest part of that entire Hoover Dam-to-Kingman segment.

[roadfro]

Are there any updates on when the Interstate 215-to-NV 157 segment of Interstate 11/US 95's exits will be renumbered to correspond with Interstate 11's mileage?

No news on this front.

NDOT missed an easy opportunity here. They should've done the renumbering as they did the resigning project, since they're replacing several (but not all) BGSs along US 95 simultaneously with adding I-11 shields. That would've been more cost effective to do this all in one project. But maybe they thought that was too much change at once...?

If it's like I-580, we might have to wait for I-11 to make it to Reno (if it ever does).  Or maybe they're waiting for I-11 to reach Mercury (which would allow them to get rid of the rest of the US 95 exit numbers).

I think I-580 was signed in 2012, but NDOT didn't renumber its exits until 2019-2020.

Regardless of how they want to do it or when, NDOT probably won't wait until the freeway is built to Mercury. After the Snow Mountain interchange, there are no exit numbers or interchanges except for Mercury (and the exit number 132 or whatever appears on Google Maps is not official—no exit number has ever been signed at Mercury). So every exit up to SR 157 or even Snow Mountain can be renumbered now.

[vdeane]

Regardless of how they want to do it or when, NDOT probably won't wait until the freeway is built to Mercury. After the Snow Mountain interchange, there are no exit numbers or interchanges except for Mercury (and the exit number 132 or whatever appears on Google Maps is not official—no exit number has ever been signed at Mercury). So every exit up to SR 157 or even Snow Mountain can be renumbered now.

But would they be willing to give Snow Mountain an I-11 exit number even though I-11 doesn't go there?  Or have a jump for that last exit?  The I-580 freeway was completed in 2017, so they waited until two years after that to change the exits, so there's precedent for NDOT to wait until well after a freeway is complete to change the exits.