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[bob7374]

Boo hiss on the loss of one of the few signs with 95 in text (not in a shield) to still remain when the gigantic BGS were installed, only to be replaced by the sorry paddle sign replacements.    Sorry, I'm a paddle sign appreciator.  (Old google street view shows the old text sign, not completely unique but pretty rare even then.)

Here's one from 1977 (lower/D8 panel) that's still there.

Meanwhile, approaching the southbound on-ramp (and at the ramp) there's a recent paddle sign with both I-95 and 128 shields: https://goo.gl/maps/5TCKNmXNMzw

[mariethefoxy]

Random MA Highway questions:

Is there some official policy to avoid ground mounted big green signs on interstates (except the Mass Pike). Ive been on most of all the interstates in MA except 190 195 and 391. Only highway in MA that I've seen that has them are Route 2 and Route 128, but there are still many many highways in MA that I haven't been on.

If Lowell Connector is state maintained how come they never assigned a number to it or even an unsigned number, there was Business Spur 495 but I meant like MA 203 or MA 595 or something?

When did the N/S/E/W suffixes end in MA? I remember seeing a few of those randomly many years back (2000) on a trip to Salem MA on Route 128.

[PHLBOS]

Meanwhile, approaching the southbound on-ramp (and at the ramp) there's a recent paddle sign with both I-95 and 128 shields: https://goo.gl/maps/5TCKNmXNMzw

Those were installed by an independent contractor that obviously didn't get the memo regarding the prohibition of MA 128 shields on guidance signs along the I-95 portion of the Yankee Division Highway.  IMHO, those particular LGS' are actually better looking (in terms of overall layout and I-95 shields) than the actual MassHighway/DOT erected ones nearby.

Is there some official policy to avoid ground mounted big green signs on interstates (except the Mass Pike). Ive been on most of all the interstates in MA except 190 195 and 391. Only highway in MA that I've seen that has them are Route 2 and Route 128, but there are still many many highways in MA that I haven't been on.

I believe the current MassDOT policy is to have all major BGS' overhead-mounted even along 4-laners.  Supplemental BGS' can be and usually are ground-mounted.

The ground-mounted major BGS' one sees along I-90, MA 2 & 128 are older and predate the current policy.  IIRC, most if not all of the older ground-mounted BGS' along 128 have since been replaced with newer overhead-mounted BGS'.

If Lowell Connector is state maintained how come they never assigned a number to it or even an unsigned number, there was Business Spur 495 but I meant like MA 203 or MA 595 or something?

Since 1971, MA 203 has been taken.  At the time the Connector was built, not every highway in the Bay State was given a route number.  Prior to 1971, the Southeast Expressway between Neponset Circle/Granite Ave. and Mass Ave. had no route number assigned to it (MA 3 exited and followed the current MA 203).

Prior to the mid-70s, the I-90 designation along the Mass Pike used to end at the Allston toll plaza (I-90 was originally supposed to end where the cancelled I-695/Inner Belt would've crossed).  The Pike Extension from there to its pre-Big Dig terminus, the South Station Tunnel/Pulaski Skyway part of the Expressway (then unsigned I-95/now I-93) was for the first decade of its life unnumbered.

When did the N/S/E/W suffixes end in MA? I remember seeing a few of those randomly many years back (2000) on a trip to Salem MA on Route 128.

If you're referring to exit numbers; such were largely phased out during the mid-to-late 1980s.  Routes that retained older exit numbers, like US 3, the Lowell Connector & MA 128 east of I-95, only retained the old-school N/S/E/W exit suffixes due to the signs yet not being replaced. 

Along 128, the suffixed exits for MA 114 (Exit 25) changed from E/W (way back when such was S/N) to the current A/B sometime during the early 90s (maybe even late 80s).

The suffixes for MA 1A (Exit 20) changed from S/N to B/A sometime during the 90s when the overhead BGS' replaced the ground-mounted BGS'.

The suffixes for MA 35 (Exit 23S-N) and MA 62 (Exit 22E-W for the exit ramps off northbound 128) were recently dropped when the interchanges were completely reconfigured to diamond/SPUI-type interchanges.

[1]

IIRC, most if not all of the older ground-mounted BGS' along 128 have since been replaced with newer overhead-mounted BGS'.

Not all. Exits 25 and 26 (not on I-95) still have at least one ground-mounted BGS each.

[PHLBOS]

IIRC, most if not all of the older ground-mounted BGS' along 128 have since been replaced with newer overhead-mounted BGS'.

Not all. Exits 25 and 26 (not on I-95) still have at least one ground-mounted BGS each.

I think you mean between Exits 24 and 25.  All current major signage for the Lowell St. interchange (Exit 26) is now overhead-mounted.

The remaining ground-mounted BGS' for MA 114 (Exit 25) are along southbound 128 for the advance notice BGS (with no exit tab) and the BGS for the westbound 114 exit (25B).  Both of which are the oldest interchange-related signage for that location.

All the signage for the Endicott St. interchange (Exit 24) are still ground-mounted, including a recent smallish temporary sign along 128 northbound.  Such replaced a 1977-vintage BGS (that featured a center-mounted exit tab).

[Alex]

Prior to the mid-70s, the I-90 designation along the Mass Pike used to end at the Allston toll plaza (I-90 was originally supposed to end where the cancelled I-695/Inner Belt would've crossed).  The Pike Extension from there to its pre-Big Dig terminus, the South Station Tunnel/Pulaski Skyway part of the Expressway (then unsigned I-95/now I-93) was for the first decade of its life unnumbered.

Thanks for posting that. I amended the history section of the I-90 page on interstate-guide to reflect the lack of numbering east of the Allston toll plaza at that time. Were the ramps at Exit 18 built in anticipation of the Inner Belt freeway and then repurposed for Cambridge Street?

[PHLBOS]

Prior to the mid-70s, the I-90 designation along the Mass Pike used to end at the Allston toll plaza (I-90 was originally supposed to end where the cancelled I-695/Inner Belt would've crossed).  The Pike Extension from there to its pre-Big Dig terminus, the South Station Tunnel/Pulaski Skyway part of the Expressway (then unsigned I-95/now I-93) was for the first decade of its life unnumbered.

Thanks for posting that. I amended the history section of the I-90 page on interstate-guide to reflect the lack of numbering east of the Allston toll plaza at that time. Were the ramps at Exit 18 built in anticipation of the Inner Belt freeway and then repurposed for Cambridge Street?

Actually, the Inner Belt was to cross the Pike east of the Allston toll plaza.





Hint of a pre-extension signage of I-90 east of Allston (taken following the Blizzard of '78, note the TO posted above the I-90 shield on the left gantry post)

[AMLNet49]

Is there some official policy to avoid ground mounted big green signs on interstates (except the Mass Pike). Ive been on most of all the interstates in MA except 190 195 and 391. Only highway in MA that I've seen that has them are Route 2 and Route 128, but there are still many many highways in MA that I haven't been on.

There is a policy as a previous poster said. A good example is MA-140, which used to have tons of ground mounted signage. Every exit aside from Exit 6 (a left exit) and Exit 2 (an Interstate) used to use ground mounted signage. Now, every guide sign on the route is overhead-mounted.

[cl94]

Is there some official policy to avoid ground mounted big green signs on interstates (except the Mass Pike). Ive been on most of all the interstates in MA except 190 195 and 391. Only highway in MA that I've seen that has them are Route 2 and Route 128, but there are still many many highways in MA that I haven't been on.

There is a policy as a previous poster said. A good example is MA-140, which used to have tons of ground mounted signage. Every exit aside from Exit 6 (a left exit) and Exit 2 (an Interstate) used to use ground mounted signage. Now, every guide sign on the route is overhead-mounted.

I-91 has a bunch of ground-mounted stuff north of Holyoke

[shadyjay]

I-91 has a bunch of ground-mounted stuff north of Holyoke

... and it's all on borrowed time.  Foundations are in for the new signs, as of Christmas 2015.  Haven't been down that way since then so I can't inform on any new signage going up.  Given its winter, I doubt any real progress won't be made until the spring.  Although its entirely possible, given the warm winter we've had thus far, that the contractor may still be active in the field.  Just haven't had a chance to confirm that.

With sign replacement contracts in the works for I-91 and I-90, that will make most of Mass interstates BGSs overhead. 

[PurdueBill]

Interestingly about the 128 exits with the directional suffixes, the BGS at the exits did not have the cardinal directions spelled out with the shields--that was left entirely to the E/W/N/S suffix on the exit number.  When the Route 114 exits were changed to A-B from E-W (with A and B in the wrong order, incidentally), they should have added EAST and WEST text to the old signs, but never did.  The signs, even a one-off replacement southbound made faithfully with square 114 shield and centered tab, only said 114 and destination.  The combining of the direction into the exit number was a neat thing that saved space but was certainly too subtle and couldn't be sustained with the move to A-B from directional suffixes.

[DrSmith]

New signage is going up on I-91. A few new overheads were installed near Exits 24 and 25. Mostly newer ground level stuff was installed at least as of a week ago.  Looks like paddle sign replacement was done in many places already. And lots of foundations for new overhead signs are there too

[NoGoodNamesAvailable]

Interestingly about the 128 exits with the directional suffixes, the BGS at the exits did not have the cardinal directions spelled out with the shields--that was left entirely to the E/W/N/S suffix on the exit number.  When the Route 114 exits were changed to A-B from E-W (with A and B in the wrong order, incidentally), they should have added EAST and WEST text to the old signs, but never did.  The signs, even a one-off replacement southbound made faithfully with square 114 shield and centered tab, only said 114 and destination.  The combining of the direction into the exit number was a neat thing that saved space but was certainly too subtle and couldn't be sustained with the move to A-B from directional suffixes.

Speaking of which, what's with the aversion to directional suffixes? Are they specifically banned in the MUTCD? NYSDOT region 8 uses them almost exclusively and they've become an expected trope, very intuitive.

[Rothman]

Interestingly about the 128 exits with the directional suffixes, the BGS at the exits did not have the cardinal directions spelled out with the shields--that was left entirely to the E/W/N/S suffix on the exit number.  When the Route 114 exits were changed to A-B from E-W (with A and B in the wrong order, incidentally), they should have added EAST and WEST text to the old signs, but never did.  The signs, even a one-off replacement southbound made faithfully with square 114 shield and centered tab, only said 114 and destination.  The combining of the direction into the exit number was a neat thing that saved space but was certainly too subtle and couldn't be sustained with the move to A-B from directional suffixes.

Speaking of which, what's with the aversion to directional suffixes? Are they specifically banned in the MUTCD? NYSDOT region 8 uses them almost exclusively and they've become an expected trope, very intuitive.

Yes, the MUTCD says to use A-B-C.  I believe the main point is that with mileage-based exit numbering, you may end up with more than two ramps per mile.  Therefore, the MUTCD recommends alphabetical suffixes rather than directional.

That said, I prefer the directional suffixes and am amused by Region 10's ridiculous exit numbering system on parkways (e.g., Sunken Meadow: SM3A, SM4W, SM4E, etc.).

[PHLBOS]

When the Route 114 exits were changed to A-B from E-W (with A and B in the wrong order, incidentally),

I believe that such may have been intentional in a premature anticipation of the exit numbers changing; especially in terms of the direction order. 

As most here (including yourself) know, the current interchange numbers along 128 are the only remaining ones in the Bay State in reverse order (increasing southbound rather than northbound).

According to MassDOT's map, and assuming no changes since that map was published, the AET collection points are:
...
South Boston (Ted Williams Tunnel EB)
East Boston (Ted Williams Tunnel WB)
East Boston (Sumner Tunnel entrance on MA 1A)

If that list is correct and current, it appears that they're doing away with one-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but keeping one-way tolls at the Sumner and Tobin Bridge (the latter is already AET).

Bad idea, either tolled crossing should have the same collection mode (either all one-way or all two-way).  Having a mixture would only increase shunpiking.

Personally; AET or no AET, all the harbor crossing tolls should stay one-way.  I would also make the Allston plaza/gantry a one-way collection for eastbound I-90/Pike traffic.

[roadman]

If that list is correct and current, it appears that they're doing away with one-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but keeping one-way tolls at the Sumner and Tobin Bridge (the latter is already AET).

When AET "goes live" in Fall of 2016, two-way tolling will be reinstated for all the harbor crossings, including the Callahan Tunnel and the Tobin Bridge northbound.  As I understand it, the current 'inbound' tolls will be reduced by 50% when that happens.

Personally; AET or no AET, all the harbor crossing tolls should stay one-way

The reason one way tolls were originally implemented in the 1970s 1983 (thanks PHLBOS for the correction) was to reduce congestion caused manual collection at the toll booths.  With AET, this is no longer an issue, so there is no legitimate reason to retain this system.

[Pete from Boston]

If that list is correct and current, it appears that they're doing away with one-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but keeping one-way tolls at the Sumner and Tobin Bridge (the latter is already AET).

Bad idea, either tolled crossing should have the same collection mode (either all one-way or all two-way).  Having a mixture would only increase shunpiking.

Personally; AET or no AET, all the harbor crossing tolls should stay one-way.  I would also make the Allston plaza/gantry a one-way collection for eastbound I-90/Pike traffic.

Shunpiking across Boston Harbor?  There's really not much in the way of easy shunpikes into East Boston from the other side of the crossings. You're talking about using the Meridian Street bridge between Chelsea and East Boston, and some combination of Beacham Street through Everett and Chelsea, the Alford Street bridge across the Mystic River, and other unappealing routes in that area (that are all going to get less appealing once the idiot-impoverishing facility is built in Everett).

People I know who go into East Boston from the north already often go these ways, but for everybody else, this is an enormous pain in the ass of a detour.

[1]

If that list is correct and current, it appears that they're doing away with one-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but keeping one-way tolls at the Sumner and Tobin Bridge (the latter is already AET).

Bad idea, either tolled crossing should have the same collection mode (either all one-way or all two-way).  Having a mixture would only increase shunpiking.

Personally; AET or no AET, all the harbor crossing tolls should stay one-way.  I would also make the Allston plaza/gantry a one-way collection for eastbound I-90/Pike traffic.

Shunpiking across Boston Harbor?  There's really not much in the way of easy shunpikes into East Boston from the other side of the crossings. You're talking about using the Meridian Street bridge between Chelsea and East Boston, and some combination of Beacham Street through Everett and Chelsea, the Alford Street bridge across the Mystic River, and other unappealing routes in that area (that are all going to get less appealing once the idiot-impoverishing facility is built in Everett).

People I know who go into East Boston from the north already often go these ways, but for everybody else, this is an enormous pain in the ass of a detour.

MA 99? Or is that already listed?

[Pete from Boston]

If that list is correct and current, it appears that they're doing away with one-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but keeping one-way tolls at the Sumner and Tobin Bridge (the latter is already AET).

Bad idea, either tolled crossing should have the same collection mode (either all one-way or all two-way).  Having a mixture would only increase shunpiking.

Personally; AET or no AET, all the harbor crossing tolls should stay one-way.  I would also make the Allston plaza/gantry a one-way collection for eastbound I-90/Pike traffic.

Shunpiking across Boston Harbor?  There's really not much in the way of easy shunpikes into East Boston from the other side of the crossings. You're talking about using the Meridian Street bridge between Chelsea and East Boston, and some combination of Beacham Street through Everett and Chelsea, the Alford Street bridge across the Mystic River, and other unappealing routes in that area (that are all going to get less appealing once the idiot-impoverishing facility is built in Everett).

People I know who go into East Boston from the north already often go these ways, but for everybody else, this is an enormous pain in the ass of a detour.

MA 99? Or is that already listed?

Route 99 crosses the Alford Street Bridge.  It's a doable route to skip the Tobin, but you can add ten minutes onto your trip to save $1.25 (valuing your time, once again, at minimum wage).  The most direct route that way to Chelsea is on Beacham Street, a winding, narrow street lined with petroleum and generating facilities, the produce terminal, and King Arthur's Lounge.  It is a suspension-wrecker that handles heavy truck traffic and I suspect it gets left that way to prevent more shunpiking. 

It is a long, lousy route to avoid a toll.  Using it to avoid traffic is a little more plausible.

One can also stay on 99 to 16 East, then cut down through Chelsea, but you have to have one hell of a miserly chip on your shoulder to go that far for a buck.

[cl94]

If that list is correct and current, it appears that they're doing away with one-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but keeping one-way tolls at the Sumner and Tobin Bridge (the latter is already AET).

Bad idea, either tolled crossing should have the same collection mode (either all one-way or all two-way).  Having a mixture would only increase shunpiking.

Personally; AET or no AET, all the harbor crossing tolls should stay one-way.  I would also make the Allston plaza/gantry a one-way collection for eastbound I-90/Pike traffic.

Shunpiking across Boston Harbor?  There's really not much in the way of easy shunpikes into East Boston from the other side of the crossings. You're talking about using the Meridian Street bridge between Chelsea and East Boston, and some combination of Beacham Street through Everett and Chelsea, the Alford Street bridge across the Mystic River, and other unappealing routes in that area (that are all going to get less appealing once the idiot-impoverishing facility is built in Everett).

People I know who go into East Boston from the north already often go these ways, but for everybody else, this is an enormous pain in the ass of a detour.

MA 99? Or is that already listed?

Route 99 crosses the Alford Street Bridge.  It's a doable route to skip the Tobin, but you can add ten minutes onto your trip to save $1.25 (valuing your time, once again, at minimum wage).  The most direct route that way to Chelsea is on Beacham Street, a winding, narrow street lined with petroleum and generating facilities, the produce terminal, and King Arthur's Lounge.  It is a suspension-wrecker that handles heavy truck traffic and I suspect it gets left that way to prevent more shunpiking. 

It is a long, lousy route to avoid a toll.  Using it to avoid traffic is a little more plausible.

I thought King Arthur's Lounge closed. Either way, I've been through there once and once is enough to know how much of a mess it is.

[PurdueBill]

When the Route 114 exits were changed to A-B from E-W (with A and B in the wrong order, incidentally),

I believe that such may have been intentional in a premature anticipation of the exit numbers changing; especially in terms of the direction order. 

As most here (including yourself) know, the current interchange numbers along 128 are the only remaining ones in the Bay State in reverse order (increasing southbound rather than northbound).

Indeed what is B-A now will stay B-A when the exit numbers are changed sometime in the next couple years, but I wonder how far they were planning ahead.  Somehow whether it was still DPW or had become MassHighway at that time (I forget exactly), I get the feeling they weren't thinking that far ahead, although I could be wrong. 

The biggest lettering change that needs to be avoided is 95/128 at I-93.  Changing from 37A-B to 55B-C because Washington St. gets 55A is silly.  Fudge Washington St. to 54, then keep the A-B sequence as-is for I-93.  If it was indeed important enough to have the Route 114 A-B exits out of order for nearly 30 years so they wouldn't flip from B-A to A-B when renumbered, then it ought to be important enough to keep the A-B sequence intact at an important, if dysfunctional/underpowered, system interchange. 

As far as AET in former one-way-toll locations, wouldn't AET involve adding gantries where there had been none?  If it cuts down on the infrastructure cost and on the number of transactions to process, leaving what is now one-way as-is wouldn't be a disaster.  If people have gotten used to the one-way tolls where they are and GPS/maps show the tolls in those directions and not the others, then messing with it can add issues.

[Pete from Boston]

I thought King Arthur's Lounge closed. Either way, I've been through there once and once is enough to know how much of a mess it is.

My best advice to anyone is to admit knowing as little as possible about King Arthur's, for all kinds of reasons.

I got into a few fights with the significant other over taking her car down that road.  While the condition of the pavement was the ostensible reason, I know the very sight of that place made her skin crawl.

[PHLBOS]

When AET "goes live" in Fall of 2016, two-way tolling will be reinstated for all the harbor crossings, including the Callahan Tunnel and the Tobin Bridge northbound.  As I understand it, the current 'inbound' tolls will be reduced by 50% when that happens.

As it should be. 

Thanks for the info./clarification.  I knew something was off.  The info. Sid received and posted (in reference to the Sumner Tunnel remaining 1-way) was obviously incorrect.  Such was why I brought it up and commented on it.
 

The reason one way tolls were originally implemented in the 1970s was to reduce congestion caused manual collection at the toll booths.  With AET, this is no longer an issue, so there is no legitimate reason to retain this system.

Correct on the reasoning (as a kid, I remember that traffic from the Callahan Tunnel toll booths went as far as the Central Artery off-ramps at times); incorrect on the time of implementation.  One-way tolls were implemented on all tolled harbor crossings in late 1983.  I used to have an old Massport Annual Report from then that covered the one-way toll conversion.

If that list is correct and current, it appears that they're doing away with one-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but keeping one-way tolls at the Sumner and Tobin Bridge (the latter is already AET).

Bad idea, either tolled crossing should have the same collection mode (either all one-way or all two-way).  Having a mixture would only increase shunpiking.

Shunpiking across Boston Harbor?  There's really not much in the way of easy shunpikes into East Boston from the other side of the crossings. You're talking about using the Meridian Street bridge between Chelsea and East Boston, and some combination of Beacham Street through Everett and Chelsea, the Alford Street bridge across the Mystic River, and other unappealing routes in that area (that are all going to get less appealing once the idiot-impoverishing facility is built in Everett).

You might want to reread my earlier post again.  My shunpiking reference was only directed towards Sid's listing (which was proven to be incorrect by Roadman) of having 2-way tolls at the Ted Williams Tunnel but still a 1-way toll at the Sumner.  That scenario (which, again will not be the case) would have someone heading into Downtown Boston via the Ted Williams Tunnel (at half of the present toll) but returning via the Callahan Tunnel or Tobin Bridge (both presently have no outbound toll).

[roadman]

Correct on the reasoning (as a kid, I remember that traffic from the Callahan Tunnel toll booths went as far as the Central Artery off-ramps at times); incorrect on the time of implementation.  One-way tolls were implemented on all tolled harbor crossings in late 1983.  I used to have an old Massport Annual Report from then that covered the one-way toll conversion.

Ah yes - have clarified my original posting.  Thanks.  And I began riding express buses between Lynn and Boston in 1978, so I've experienced the traffic conditions you described firsthand.  On days when the Callahan Tunnel was really backed up, our driver would head into Charlestown and over the Tobin Bridge instead.

[PHLBOS]

With AET, this is no longer an issue, so there is no legitimate reason to retain this system.

True, but I believe that Massachusetts may be the only state that's presently reverting back to a 2-way toll collection at its bridge/tunnel crossings simultaneously (harbor tunnels only) with the its AET conversion.