New York State Thruway

[webny99]

It's kind of cool what happens at Exit 35: the gantries for both adjacent interchanges (I-81 and I-481) are over the mainline. Thus, whichever way you go from Exit 35, you'll pass a gantry, so no gantry is needed at the exit itself. I believe that's the only exit where that happens.

[Great Lakes Roads]

It's kind of cool what happens at Exit 35: the gantries for both adjacent interchanges (I-81 and I-481) are over the mainline. Thus, whichever way you go from Exit 35, you'll pass a gantry, so no gantry is needed at the exit itself. I believe that's the only exit where that happens.

No, there will be more interchanges that will have that system. Here we go (from east to west):
Albany/Schenectady area:
- Exit 23
- Exit 24
- Exit 25
- Exit 25A

Syracuse:
-Exit 34A
-Exit 35
-Exit 36
-Exit 39

Rochester:
-Exit 44
-Exit 45
-Exit 46
-Exit 47

Otherwise, the local interchanges will pay electronically at the exit ramp.

[vdeane]

It's kind of cool what happens at Exit 35: the gantries for both adjacent interchanges (I-81 and I-481) are over the mainline. Thus, whichever way you go from Exit 35, you'll pass a gantry, so no gantry is needed at the exit itself. I believe that's the only exit where that happens.

No, there will be more interchanges that will have that system. Here we go (from east to west):
Albany/Schenectady area:
- Exit 23
- Exit 24
- Exit 25
- Exit 25A

Syracuse:
-Exit 34A
-Exit 35
-Exit 36
-Exit 39

Rochester:
-Exit 44
-Exit 45
-Exit 46
-Exit 47

Otherwise, the local interchanges will pay electronically at the exit ramp.

The other interchanges were specifically set out to have full toll booth removal for free-flowing traffic.  Exit 35 was not; it just happens to be between two that are, hence the gantries on either side.  It's the only interchange where that is the case.

[webny99]

^ Yes, thank you. The point is that Exit 35 is pretty minor (certainly an outlier on that list) and would have had gantries on the ramps, except for the way it's situated between two freeway-freeway exits.


In other news, "installation underway" for the gantries at both Lackawanna and Williamsville. Interested to see if they are actually up next time I'm out that way. The locations are just east of Smoke Creek and just east of Youngs Road - far enough away from the existing toll barriers that it should be pretty easy to tell. Hopefully they leave enough room for six lanes under the Williamsville gantry! 

I wonder what they will do about charging for the mile between the new gantry and the existing barrier. Knowing this state, probably just charge for the whole I-290 to NY 78 stretch, even though only half of it will technically be tolled!

[vdeane]

Judging by the toll amounts, I'm pretty sure they were already charging for the full distance.  They definitely do for Woodbury/Harriman.

Looks like there's also work in the Syracuse and Albany areas.  Definitely looks like there's stuff to check out on the Thruway.

I've been wondering... do they still plan to move the Tappan Zee gantry back over to Tarrytown, or is it now staying in Nyack?

[Alps]

Judging by the toll amounts, I'm pretty sure they were already charging for the full distance.  They definitely do for Woodbury/Harriman.

Looks like there's also work in the Syracuse and Albany areas.  Definitely looks like there's stuff to check out on the Thruway.

I've been wondering... do they still plan to move the Tappan Zee gantry back over to Tarrytown, or is it now staying in Nyack?

It's permanent.

[GenExpwy]

It's kind of cool what happens at Exit 35: the gantries for both adjacent interchanges (I-81 and I-481) are over the mainline. Thus, whichever way you go from Exit 35, you'll pass a gantry, so no gantry is needed at the exit itself. I believe that's the only exit where that happens.

No, there will be more interchanges that will have that system. Here we go (from east to west):
Albany/Schenectady area:
- Exit 23
- Exit 24
- Exit 25
- Exit 25A

Syracuse:
-Exit 34A
-Exit 35
-Exit 36
-Exit 39

Rochester:
-Exit 44
-Exit 45
-Exit 46
-Exit 47

Otherwise, the local interchanges will pay electronically at the exit ramp.

The other interchanges were specifically set out to have full toll booth removal for free-flowing traffic.  Exit 35 was not; it just happens to be between two that are, hence the gantries on either side.  It's the only interchange where that is the case.

Strange thing about the Syracuse setup:

There's a mainline gantry between exits 36 and 37 (so that 36 can be free-flowing); and between 38 and 39 (so that 39 can be free-flowing). But then you would only need one mainline gantry between 37 and 38 to handle all of Syracuse – yet they are installing two exit gantries, at exits 37 and 38.

[kalvado]

Strange thing about the Syracuse setup:

There's a mainline gantry between exits 36 and 37 (so that 36 can be free-flowing); and between 38 and 39 (so that 39 can be free-flowing). But then you would only need one mainline gantry between 37 and 38 to handle all of Syracuse – yet they are installing two exit gantries, at exits 37 and 38.

You can think about it in a slighlty different way:  those 2 exits have 5 and 6.5k traffic counts, compared to 37k on Thruway.
Currently 2 exits combined have 7 lanes, likely down to single lane per direction - total of  4 lanes with 4 reader sets with free flow. Thruway will also need 4 reader sets on a gantry for 4 lanes. Probably higher grade equipment for faster mainline as well... So it may be plain cheaper to do 2 locations instead of 1 after all

[vdeane]

Not to mention that, if the AET ramp setups are utilizing the existing toll barriers rather than removing them, they save on gantry costs as well.

[webny99]

Still, for the sake of consistency, they might as well just add a mainline gantry, and that would also leave the door open for future changes to those interchanges. Or, even better, just don't do either one, thus making it free to travel between 37 and 38 - both local exits anyways.

My biggest thing is, I dislike the switching back and forth between mainline and interchange gantries.

[webny99]

In other news, "installation underway" for the gantries at both Lackawanna and Williamsville. Interested to see if they are actually up next time I'm out that way.

UPDATE: There appears to a series of be mini-construction zones in the Syracuse area where the gantries are going to be placed.
No work zone speed limit or anything, just jersey barriers and slightly narrowed shoulders. I don't believe the actual gantries have been placed yet (at least not that I saw, although it was dark!)

[vdeane]

The one south of Albany that's "installation underway" isn't placed yet either.  Most of the work appeared to be prep in the median.

EDIT: The Syracuse work is even less exciting for the most part, though one looked like it was working on the concrete support for the gantry.  The location for the gantry to replace the Williamsville barrier is the same.

[seicer]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

[cl94]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

Comments on The Buffalo News's Facebook page seem to think they can just repave it. But yeah, I knew just by looking at it that it would likely need a full reconstruction. The crack pattern is indicative of base failure. If you pave over that, it'll just fall apart after the next winter.

[Rothman]

Ah, to get on that gravy train of politicians and other appointees ending up at the Thruway.  Had to respect Driscoll's approach toward his role as NYSDOT Commissioner.

[hbelkins]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

[cl94]

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

NY does this as well in many recent projects (i.e. NY 85). Problem, of course, is that they have at most a couple weeks until there is a major snow threat, so there just isn't time until after the winter.

[Alps]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

Which in essence turns the concrete into a gravel base course. It has to be chopped up into uniformly small pieces to avoid map cracking on the surface.

[RobbieL2415]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

Never seen that before.  They always mill down to the bituminous concrete and layer the new surface on top of that.

[Rothman]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

Never seen that before.  They always mill down to the bituminous concrete and layer the new surface on top of that.

Huh.  Weird you haven't seen it.  "Crack and seat" is quite common up here in NY.

[Beltway]

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

Never seen that before.  They always mill down to the bituminous concrete and layer the new surface on top of that.

Huh.  Weird you haven't seen it.  "Crack and seat" is quite common up here in NY.

Becoming more common here in VA.  Used on a couple of the widening projects on I-64.

[kalvado]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

Never seen that before.  They always mill down to the bituminous concrete and layer the new surface on top of that.

Huh.  Weird you haven't seen it.  "Crack and seat" is quite common up here in NY.

I believe I saw it once (on rt. 85) - and even then only because I specially paid attention after someone (possibly you?) explained the technology. 
It is pretty unspectacular if you don't know what is going on...

[hbelkins]

Troubled Thruway stretch "˜in far worse condition than we had anticipated'

"The Thruway stretch had become so dilapidated in recent years that the recommended speed limit is down to 45 mph.

The troubled thoroughfare was highlighted in August by the USA TODAY Network New York, and soon after negotiations between the state and the tribe picked up urgency.

Driscoll said the recent inspection of the road is the first time they have been able to fully inspect the roadway, finding "that the concrete base of the roadway is crumbling and badly cracking in many locations, making it ineffective for our crews to simply pave over it.""

Interesting. Lots of states pave over original concrete by "breaking and seating" or "rubbleizing" the pavement and then laying asphalt on the broken-up concrete.

Never seen that before.  They always mill down to the bituminous concrete and layer the new surface on top of that.

I've seen two different pieces of equipment do it. One was called "Thumper" and it actually had a picture of a rabbit on it. It's a big piece of metal the width of the road and looked to be about a foot thick. Hydraulics lift it up and slam it down onto the pavement. It makes a lot of noise and will definitely vibrate a passing car. The other one had a much smaller footprint, kind of like an oversized sanding pad. It seemed to work mostly by vibration and not by brute force the way "Thumper" did.

Both methods were used on different sections of I-64 between Lexington and Midway when the original 1971 concrete was repaved back in the mid-1990s. The section broken up by the "Thumper" seemed to do better than the one broken up by the other machine.

[seicer]

Ironically, the portion west of Midway to Frankfort is still on its original concrete, although it's been rehabbed twice. I'm not sure why it's been kept for so long, but it would be a good study of pavement life cycles and costs.

[hbelkins]

Ironically, the portion west of Midway to Frankfort is still on its original concrete, although it's been rehabbed twice. I'm not sure why it's been kept for so long, but it would be a good study of pavement life cycles and costs.

That's very possible. Also, its proximity to Frankfort and Lexington (UK Transportation Center) may play a part in that.

There's still some original concrete on I-75 south of London, or there was the last time I was on that road (2017). There's also some on the Pennyrile Parkway between Hopkinsville and the WK Parkway.