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Author Topic: Tropical cyclone tracking thread  (Read 71865 times)

CNGL-Leudimin

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #675 on: September 11, 2020, 05:58:22 PM »

In the case one Greek letter gets retired... well, it wouldn't get retired. It would be listed among the retired names, with a footnote saying it would be used again if needed. As for the problem of running out of names, they could switch to what is done in the typhoon basin (the Western Pacific), one long list that goes through regardless of the year, and when the end is reached (Saola) they return to the start (Damrey).
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #676 on: September 11, 2020, 06:27:09 PM »

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #677 on: September 13, 2020, 07:48:16 PM »

"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

Well, of course they can't. If we started retiring Greek letters, how would Greek people be able to spell anything?
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #678 on: September 13, 2020, 08:02:56 PM »

"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

Well, of course they can't. If we started retiring Greek letters, how would Greek people be able to spell anything?

The number 42 has been retired. We still use the number.
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #679 on: September 13, 2020, 08:06:21 PM »

"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

Well, of course they can't. If we started retiring Greek letters, how would Greek people be able to spell anything?

The number 42 has been retired. We still use the number.

This isn't baseball.
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kalvado

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #680 on: September 13, 2020, 10:09:30 PM »

"Letters of the Greek alphabet that are used for tropical systems cannot be retired."

From https://www.wwltv.com/article/weather/accuweather/greek-alphabet-may-be-used-for-only-2nd-time-in-history-this-hurricane-season/507-91d0f8f1-4413-4444-9754-04d45de356b4
If there is a really really good reason, though... There may be workarounds -  Aleph, Bet, Gimel, and Dalet from Herbew alphabet come to mind.
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #681 on: September 14, 2020, 09:14:09 AM »

Hey look, we're gonna have 5 simultaneous named storms in the Atlantic Basin later today when Tropical Depression 21 becomes a Tropical Storm.
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/

What comes after Greek letters?
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #682 on: September 14, 2020, 10:40:36 AM »

In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #683 on: September 14, 2020, 10:47:22 AM »

In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)

The first letter tells you if it's one of the earlier hurricanes or one of the later hurricanes. For example, just hearing the name Bob will tell me that it was very early in hurricane season.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #684 on: September 14, 2020, 11:18:30 AM »

In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)

The first letter tells you if it's one of the earlier hurricanes or one of the later hurricanes. For example, just hearing the name Bob will tell me that it was very early in hurricane season.


I get that, but can't you just look it up?
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CoreySamson

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #685 on: September 14, 2020, 11:47:41 AM »

In the Western Pacific, they cycle through a list of names continuously and don't start over each year.  I kind of think the US should do the same instead of using Greek letters.  There doesn't seem to be a necessary reason to start over at "A" each year.  (But I also don't think grids for highway numbering are necessary either, so maybe it's just me.)

The first letter tells you if it's one of the earlier hurricanes or one of the later hurricanes. For example, just hearing the name Bob will tell me that it was very early in hurricane season.

I'm in favor of SEWIGuy's proposal here for one reason. While rotating A-Z lists may be attractive, I think it leads to problems when it comes to retiring names. Just look at the letter I. Usually the most destructive storms in a usual year happen around the tenth storm or so, which just so happens to be I's position in the alphabet. Think of all the nasty I-storms that have happened over the years. Irene, Isabel, Irma, Ivan, and Ike are just some of the worst I-storms.

If most deadly storms happen to occur when the Atlantic is on its tenth named storm, then coincidentally there should be lots of retired I-storms. The thing is, is that in the English language, there aren't many I-names that are popular, most of them are old-fashioned or obscure. This results in odd names such as Isaias and Imelda being used for storms (Remember how this thread blew up about Isaias's difficulty to pronounce?). The fact that the Atlantic basin is competing with the Eastern basin for names doesn't help matters at all.

The climax of my argument is that we may run out of good I-names eventually, and we may need to install a different naming system. Who wants hurricane Icarus?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 01:44:01 PM by CoreySamson »
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SEWIGuy

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #686 on: September 14, 2020, 11:51:56 AM »

I also think you can start "un-retiring" names at some point.  Maybe after 30 years you can bring back all but the very worst? 
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #687 on: September 14, 2020, 03:33:33 PM »

Maybe the solution is to ditch the cutsie naming convention all together and name them like exoplanets. 
"Tropical Storm 2020-M is forming in the Carribbean."

Alternate pitch: sell the naming rights to hurricanes to the highest bidder.
Think of the money one could raise in a bidding war between, say, Coke and Pepsi to name the next storm after the competition. :-D
No such thing as bad publicity. C'mon people, make it happen!
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kalvado

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #688 on: September 14, 2020, 05:51:23 PM »

Maybe the solution is to ditch the cutsie naming convention all together and name them like exoplanets. 
"Tropical Storm 2020-M is forming in the Carribbean."

Alternate pitch: sell the naming rights to hurricanes to the highest bidder.
Think of the money one could raise in a bidding war between, say, Coke and Pepsi to name the next storm after the competition. :-D
No such thing as bad publicity. C'mon people, make it happen!
You mean for the right NOT to be used for naming? "Hurricane Sprite causes massive levee failures around New Orleans"?
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US71

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #689 on: September 14, 2020, 11:30:39 PM »

Maybe the solution is to ditch the cutsie naming convention all together and name them like exoplanets. 
"Tropical Storm 2020-M is forming in the Carribbean."

Alternate pitch: sell the naming rights to hurricanes to the highest bidder.
Think of the money one could raise in a bidding war between, say, Coke and Pepsi to name the next storm after the competition. :-D
No such thing as bad publicity. C'mon people, make it happen!
You mean for the right NOT to be used for naming? "Hurricane Sprite causes massive levee failures around New Orleans"?

Name them for polluting corporations: Hurricane Exxon/Shell/BP etc.
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CNGL-Leudimin

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #690 on: September 15, 2020, 03:49:48 AM »

I'm in favor of SEWIGuy's proposal here for one reason. While rotating A-Z lists may be attractive, I think it leads to problems when it comes to retiring names. Just look at the letter I. Usually the most destructive storms in a usual year happen around the tenth storm or so, which just so happens to be I's position in the alphabet. Think of all the nasty I-storms that have happened over the years. Irene, Isabel, Irma, Ivan, and Ike are just some of the worst I-storms.

If most deadly storms happen to occur when the Atlantic is on its tenth named storm, then coincidentally there should be lots of retired I-storms. The thing is, is that in the English language, there aren't many I-names that are popular, most of them are old-fashioned or obscure. This results in odd names such as Isaias and Imelda being used for storms (Remember how this thread blew up about Isaias's difficulty to pronounce?). The fact that the Atlantic basin is competing with the Eastern basin for names doesn't help matters at all.

The climax of my argument is that we may run out of good I-names eventually, and we may need to install a different naming system. Who wants hurricane Icarus?

See also letter F. All Fs from the original 1979 lists are now gone, having been replaced at least once (Frederic => Fabian => Fred, Frances => Fiona -This was going to happen anyway due to a request from La France-, Floyd => Franklin, Florence => Francine, Felix => Fernand, Fran => Fay). On the letter I Isaac resists as the last original name of that letter.
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Alex

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #691 on: September 15, 2020, 09:10:03 AM »

The Atlantic list needs to adopt two entries for X, Y and Z like the Pacific list. Those in the Pacific are rarely used, and would be better than using the Greek alphabet over and over (should seasons continually go through the entire alphabet).

Sally can be compared to Hurricane Danny in 1997, which stalled over Mobile Bay and dropped up to 43 inches of rain. Danny was not retired either.

CNGL-Leudimin

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #692 on: September 15, 2020, 02:48:36 PM »

The Eastern Pacific would have run over to the Greek alphabet three times had they not lengthened the lists in 1985. This way, it still has yet to see one such storm (even though it got to the end of the list in 1992). The Atlantic in 2005 would had still run out of names even if X, Y and Z names were added, and luckily they missed that subtropical storm (which I wouldn't have recognized anyway, like I do with 4 others), otherwise Hurricane Wilma would have been Hurricane α and it couldn't have been retired (see above). Also, the last tropical storm would have been Tropical Storm η, which wouldn't have been appropiate given the Basque terrorist group, ETA was still pretty much active at the time (akin to what explains why Ivette entered the Eastern Pacific lists).

Also, in regard to the "sponsored tropical cyclone names" thing, Mulan is now in the typhoon (Western Pacific) list :sombrero:. However it has no relation to the Disney character, as it is a Chinese word (木兰) meaning "lily magnolia".
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 02:54:05 PM by CNGL-Leudimin »
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Scott5114

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #693 on: September 16, 2020, 05:17:38 PM »

The Washington Post had an article about using the Greek alphabet and the difficulty of retiring storm names from it. According to the article, one solution that has been officially debated in the past was creating another name list that would only be used when the main list for the year is exhausted (so after Wilbur would be the "A" name from the overflow list). Names could then be retired from the overflow list whenever needed.
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #694 on: September 17, 2020, 08:26:44 PM »

The Washington Post had an article about using the Greek alphabet and the difficulty of retiring storm names from it. According to the article, one solution that has been officially debated in the past was creating another name list that would only be used when the main list for the year is exhausted (so after Wilbur would be the "A" name from the overflow list). Names could then be retired from the overflow list whenever needed.

Presumably, you'd need two such lists of names: one that begins with a male "A" name for lists 1, 3, and 5; and another that begins with a female "A" name for lists 2, 4, and 6. Also, if you have an overflow list, you could also move a name from the overflow list to the main list, and the new replacment name would be placed on the overflow list.
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #695 on: September 17, 2020, 09:43:52 PM »

With the formation of TD Twenty-two, forecasters predict that this storm could possibly be TS Wilfred.

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT2+shtml/172259.shtml
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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #696 on: September 17, 2020, 10:49:52 PM »

The Washington Post had an article about using the Greek alphabet and the difficulty of retiring storm names from it. According to the article, one solution that has been officially debated in the past was creating another name list that would only be used when the main list for the year is exhausted (so after Wilbur would be the "A" name from the overflow list). Names could then be retired from the overflow list whenever needed.

Presumably, you'd need two such lists of names: one that begins with a male "A" name for lists 1, 3, and 5; and another that begins with a female "A" name for lists 2, 4, and 6. Also, if you have an overflow list, you could also move a name from the overflow list to the main list, and the new replacment name would be placed on the overflow list.
Or have a list of names that go either way. https://www.mother.ly/child/top-50-gender-neutral-baby-names-youll-obsess-over-/particle-3

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #697 on: September 18, 2020, 12:32:23 PM »

And for the second time ever, we have entered the Greek alphabet. Subtropical Storm Alpha has now formed...and is about to make landfall on, of all places, Portugal.

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #698 on: September 18, 2020, 01:43:24 PM »

And for the second time ever, we have entered the Greek alphabet. Subtropical Storm Alpha has now formed...and is about to make landfall on, of all places, Portugal.
Sounds like Mother Nature is giving CNGL her opinion on the naming of subtropical systems.


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CNGL-Leudimin

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Re: Tropical cyclone tracking thread
« Reply #699 on: September 18, 2020, 04:03:42 PM »

As always I won't recognize Subtropical Storm α despite dumping lots of rain here :sombrero:. At least since the list has been exhausted it doesn't affect that. Remember that out of 3 iterations of Andrea I only recognize the 2013 one.
And for the second time ever, we have entered the Greek alphabet. Subtropical Storm Alpha has now formed...and is about to make landfall on, of all places, Portugal.

Two years ago Leslie almost made landfall in Portugal as a full-blown hurricane, but became extratropical right before doing so.
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