NYC Roads

[NJRoadfan]

I dunno man, New Jersey's property taxes range from 70-120% higher than the national average, yet New Jersey has some of the highest median housing values in the country.

Yet Newark and most of its suburbs have ridiculously high taxes and "cheap" housing, most of which is falling apart. If you have the down payment to afford a town with slightly higher prices, but lower taxes, its actually cheaper to live there despite the higher mortgage payment! The lack of services from those $6000-7000 a year in taxes is galling as well. You have to pay for garbage pickup and usually the towns have a full volunteer fire and first aid squad. Meanwhile, in most states the taxes are half (or less) and provide full garbage pickup, full paid fire dept., and EMS.

[Pete from Boston]

I dunno man, New Jersey's property taxes range from 70-120% higher than the national average, yet New Jersey has some of the highest median housing values in the country.

Yet Newark and most of its suburbs have ridiculously high taxes and "cheap" housing, most of which is falling apart. If you have the down payment to afford a town with slightly higher prices, but lower taxes, its actually cheaper to live there despite the higher mortgage payment! The lack of services from those $6000-7000 a year in taxes is galling as well. You have to pay for garbage pickup and usually the towns have a full volunteer fire and first aid squad. Meanwhile, in most states the taxes are half (or less) and provide full garbage pickup, full paid fire dept., and EMS.

How about surrendering the precious municipal autonomy that creates massive overduplication of services in New Jersey?  It's a mystery to pretty much no one that's paying attention that the tenacious parochialism in New Jersey towns is responsible for wasted high taxes.

People in New Jersey want to have their cake and eat it too, for free.

[NJRoadfan]

Merging towns doesn't seem to produce the savings expected. While the municipal services portion of the tax bill goes down, the school taxes likely won't. It's a complex problem with no clear solution that nobody wants to solve.

http://njmonthly.com/articles/towns-schools/princetons-progress-municipal-consolidation/

[jeffandnicole]

Merging towns doesn't seem to produce the savings expected. While the municipal services portion of the tax bill goes down, the school taxes likely won't. It's a complex problem with no clear solution that nobody wants to solve.

http://njmonthly.com/articles/towns-schools/princetons-progress-municipal-consolidation/

In most towns, the vast majority of taxes go towards schools, not municipal, not county, not state.

But, our gas tax is low.

[Pete from Boston]

Merging towns doesn't seem to produce the savings expected. While the municipal services portion of the tax bill goes down, the school taxes likely won't. It's a complex problem with no clear solution that nobody wants to solve.

http://njmonthly.com/articles/towns-schools/princetons-progress-municipal-consolidation/

In most towns, the vast majority of taxes go towards schools, not municipal, not county, not state.

But, our gas tax is low.

Education, for better or for worse, is one of those areas over which people are least willing to surrender local control.  Given the nature of New Jersey's municipal structure, you have a lot of very wealthy little enclaves with their own government that do not want their school rankings diluted by merger with inferior districts.

Schools, in fact, where one of the sticking points over which many of New Jersey's micro-boroughs were created.

[mariethefoxy]

There is a signing project in the works that is replacing signage on NY-440 on Staten Island.  These two were in the plans.  Anybody know if they're still there or did they bite the dust?

I was down there a few weeks back, much of the mainline signs on NY 440 are all new. As for the side streets that I'm not sure.

[ixnay]

On those NY 440 signs, what's that "WS" in the lower right corner?  A reference to the ongoing Fall Classic involving the boys from Flushing Meadows?

ixnay

[route17fan]

It means "west shore" - an abbreviation on most old style button copy signs designating what road to which it belongs.
Others include CB and CBX for Cross Bronx Expy, HHP for Henry Hudson Pkwy, etc.

[route17fan]

That topic was addressed here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12328.0 Old NYC BGS signs with letters on the bottom

[route17fan]

Just curious: are there any button copy signs left on the Henry Hudson from the GWB northward or have they been replaced?

[vdeane]

Everytime I drive the FDR I noticed a button copy sign that has disappeared.  Yet, I see no contracts on NYDOT about a FDR signing contract or have I seen any.  Even the "various locations" projects that i have seen don't have any FDR signage in them. 

Do they do spot replacements without putting it out to bid?

PS the above sign is still there....for now.

Probably NYCDOT spot replacements.  NYSDOT Region 11 only does large capital projects.

[dgolub]

Probably NYCDOT spot replacements.  NYSDOT Region 11 only does large capital projects.

Yeah, a number of the spot replacements I've seen within the five boroughs like NYCDOT signage, and some of them stick out like a sore thumb when everything else on the road is NYSDOT signage.

[ixnay]

That topic was addressed here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=12328.0 Old NYC BGS signs with letters on the bottom

Looks like Flickr has yanked the photo accompanying the initial post of that thread...

ixnay

[1995hoo]

I believe you may still be able to find some beat-up old button copy signs near the Marine Parkway Bridge leaving Breezy Point. Mapping software would show the location as eastbound Rockaway Point Boulevard at Beach 169 Street, although nobody in that area calls it Rockaway Point Boulevard (usually "the state road" is used, mainly because it's the only road in or out). The signs may have been replaced recently, though, because I believe the ones on the bridge were. I would ask my aunt, who lives right down the street in Roxbury, to confirm yea or nay, except she would have no idea what I'd be asking about even if I explained it in terms other than "button copy."

[ixnay]

I believe you may still be able to find some beat-up old button copy signs near the Marine Parkway Bridge leaving Breezy Point. Mapping software would show the location as eastbound Rockaway Point Boulevard at Beach 169 Street, although nobody in that area calls it Rockaway Point Boulevard (usually "the state road" is used, mainly because it's the only road in or out). The signs may have been replaced recently, though, because I believe the ones on the bridge were. I would ask my aunt, who lives right down the street in Roxbury, to confirm yea or nay, except she would have no idea what I'd be asking about even if I explained it in terms other than "button copy."

Do you mean this (from Oct. 2012)?

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5674477,-73.8821206,3a,48.9y,45.78h,104.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMl-e7zVSuwNdgKdhWPCTRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

ixnay

[1995hoo]

That's the one. Those are probably the same signs that were there when I first visited Breezy Point in the 1970s. I find it mildly amusing how they put on the fresh piece with the toll rate while letting the rest deteriorate, but on the other hand, the neighborhoods down that road are all private (Breezy Point and Roxbury operate as a single co-op; I'm not sure how the Silver Gull is run), so 99% of the people using that road know where they're going anyway.

I don't know whether those signs may have been replaced since the Google car went through.

[Alps]

I believe you may still be able to find some beat-up old button copy signs near the Marine Parkway Bridge leaving Breezy Point. Mapping software would show the location as eastbound Rockaway Point Boulevard at Beach 169 Street, although nobody in that area calls it Rockaway Point Boulevard (usually "the state road" is used, mainly because it's the only road in or out). The signs may have been replaced recently, though, because I believe the ones on the bridge were. I would ask my aunt, who lives right down the street in Roxbury, to confirm yea or nay, except she would have no idea what I'd be asking about even if I explained it in terms other than "button copy."

Gone.

[1995hoo]

I believe you may still be able to find some beat-up old button copy signs near the Marine Parkway Bridge leaving Breezy Point. Mapping software would show the location as eastbound Rockaway Point Boulevard at Beach 169 Street, although nobody in that area calls it Rockaway Point Boulevard (usually "the state road" is used, mainly because it's the only road in or out). The signs may have been replaced recently, though, because I believe the ones on the bridge were. I would ask my aunt, who lives right down the street in Roxbury, to confirm yea or nay, except she would have no idea what I'd be asking about even if I explained it in terms other than "button copy."

Gone.

Thanks. Not necessarily a huge surprise because that area got a heck of a lot of attention due to the massive fire the night of Hurricane Sandy.

[Alps]

I believe you may still be able to find some beat-up old button copy signs near the Marine Parkway Bridge leaving Breezy Point. Mapping software would show the location as eastbound Rockaway Point Boulevard at Beach 169 Street, although nobody in that area calls it Rockaway Point Boulevard (usually "the state road" is used, mainly because it's the only road in or out). The signs may have been replaced recently, though, because I believe the ones on the bridge were. I would ask my aunt, who lives right down the street in Roxbury, to confirm yea or nay, except she would have no idea what I'd be asking about even if I explained it in terms other than "button copy."

Gone.

Actually still there...but not for long, they are replacing the ramp bridges and the signs will be replaced as part of that project.


I'm still tempted to make a trip to SI to see if the Glen Rd button copy at NY-440 to see if the above signage is still there but it's the tolls that's preventing me.

I was just there and the signs were mostly gone. Maybe this is the one that survived... or am I completely misremembering?

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.852027,-73.908992,3a,75y,20.24h,89.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCYOw8iM-shbysbx4mJvn5A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

I was always fascinated by roads in NYC that are underneath the elevated subway lines.  I always noticed how not only does the line separate the neighborhoods on each side, but it prevents a roadway that would normally be four lanes into a narrow two lane roadway plus a service road as the piers prevent easy lane changes between the inner and outer roadways so to speak.

I know that people have become used to it and its part of NYC driving when you are under the El to have an added challenge like this here roadway which is Jerome Avenue in The Bronx which has the IRT Number 4 above it the entire 5.6 miles of street.

Just think what could be improved here if NYC was able to submerge the Number 4 line below the street like it is in Manhattan.  Jerome Avenue would be more efficient and be able to use all four lanes instead of the main two lanes while the actual right lane is a service road to access parking spaces and right turns.

[mariethefoxy]

With the amount of money and time its taking them to put a Subway line under 2nd Ave in Manhattan, I doubt they will be burying any existing EL lines in the Bronx.

[empirestate]

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.852027,-73.908992,3a,75y,20.24h,89.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCYOw8iM-shbysbx4mJvn5A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Just think what could be improved here if NYC was able to submerge the Number 4 line below the street like it is in Manhattan.  Jerome Avenue would be more efficient and be able to use all four lanes instead of the main two lanes while the actual right lane is a service road to access parking spaces and right turns.

Well, you'd think that, but everyone would just end up double-parking in the right lane. Few four-lane streets in the city are actually able to function as such; in fact, I daresay the "service road" under elevated lines is blocked less often than the right lane is on normal streets.


iPhone

[roadman65]

With the amount of money and time its taking them to put a Subway line under 2nd Ave in Manhattan, I doubt they will be burying any existing EL lines in the Bronx.

Of course.  That is why I said "IF" as NYC, relying on the State of New York for subsidies to keep the trains and buses rolling, could never do it especially with Andrew at the helm.

Most likely yes, with the service road probably being more free flowing than if it was a general use lane.  I imagine just like the numbered streets in Manhattan where they are mostly two lanes, and with double and sometimes triple parking makes crosstown traffic almost difficult.  I cannot remember when I did not have to wait two to three light changes at each avenue because of double parking vehicles or worse yet the delivery vehicles that make you miss a light cycle due to backing up into the delivery area they need to be in.

[vdeane]

I was always fascinated by roads in NYC that are underneath the elevated subway lines.  I always noticed how not only does the line separate the neighborhoods on each side, but it prevents a roadway that would normally be four lanes into a narrow two lane roadway plus a service road as the piers prevent easy lane changes between the inner and outer roadways so to speak.

So here's a good question: what's the correct protocol for driving on a road like this?  My first reaction to seeing one in the NYC meet was "what the hell".  It was around that time the person I carpooled with (we had peeled off from the tour at that point) got extremely tired of NYC driving.

[cl94]

I was always fascinated by roads in NYC that are underneath the elevated subway lines.  I always noticed how not only does the line separate the neighborhoods on each side, but it prevents a roadway that would normally be four lanes into a narrow two lane roadway plus a service road as the piers prevent easy lane changes between the inner and outer roadways so to speak.

So here's a good question: what's the correct protocol for driving on a road like this?  My first reaction to seeing one in the NYC meet was "what the hell".  It was around that time the person I carpooled with (we had peeled off from the tour at that point) got extremely tired of NYC driving.

It depends on the width of the street. If there's room outside the piers for 2 lines of cars, treat as lane divider. You have about 2.5 car lengths between piers. If you can't fit 2 cars side by side, it's a parking lane. In most cases, there's enough room to treat the space outside the pier as a driving lane. This is mainly an issue in the Bronx, as most of the Brooklyn els and the Flushing Line typically straddle the street instead of putting supports in the middle.